For those that "haven't been affected by eviction moratorium"

Laura Guy · 2021-09-09T18:19:23-07:00

For those of you who say the eviction moratorium doesn’t/hasn’t affected you. I’m here to tell you it does. If you own rental property, but “haven’t had any issues”, 12% of mom and pop housing providers- your colleagues- have been forced out of the business due to the moratorium. Laws around the country are preventing housing providers from running background checks, criminal history, credit history, eviction history. You haven’t had any issues YET. If you own your home, or wish to in the future- the government has set the precedent that it can tell you what you can and cannot do with your property. The Biden administration has also stated they wish to eliminate single family zoning altogether. You may lose that right, or opportunity. This affects you. If you have gone into a contract with someone- where you agree to do something in exchange for something else- the government has now said they will not honor that contract. This affects you. As a housing provider and real estate professional, I have personally had very minimal issues or losses myself. But I will fight this- because it’s tyranny and blatant government overreach. The beauty and success of this great United States of America has relied upon having rights- The right to own property, the right to make decisions about our bodies and beings. This country provides opportunity to any individual- from any race, gender, or background. In particular, the housing industry has created an incredibly diverse group of entrepreneurs and success stories, that can be shared with future generations. These fundamental rights are slowly being chipped away and I challenge those of you who say “you are not affected” to stand up and fight with us. Make a donation. Share with a friend. Volunteer your time. DO something. Your livelihood is next.

Chad McMahan

Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 751 posts · 504 votes

5y

Agreed, Laura. It's disgusting and feels quite upside down, that this is legally acceptable. No surprise that BP forum posters are strongly against it. Thanks for standing up against it.

1 Reply

Harrison Sharp

Real Estate Broker · DFW · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 270 votes

5y

@Laura Guy this is why smart people are selling in liberal ********s and buying in right wing counties/states. It’s insane to me how you can be a liberal/progressive and be involved in any type of rental/free market/real estate.

2 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Max T.:

@Dan Heuschele

You own the property. Not the neighborhood. Not the zoning of the neighbors. Things change. You can pivot with the change or if you really don’t like it, sell and move. And yes, there will continue to be rural places that don’t fill up with duplexes even though they are allowed to.

Rural PA is a prime example so much of it can be bought for far below replacement value.. I have been funding a lot of it for investors this year and its stunning how cheap you can buy a home in Rural PA in a small town that saw better days 50 to 100 years ago.. But they cash flow great and of course so many investors thats all they think about.. So anyway I am there to help them acquire them so they can then refi and get me paid off.. and off they go into their cash cow rentals in RURAL PA.. NO way anyone is going to be building new in those areas for many years if not decades or ever.

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Llewelyn A.

Investor / Broker · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 665 posts · 1k+ votes

5y

@Harrison Sharp I'm a Brooklyn, NYC small Multi-family Investor with 9 Buildings and 25 apts. I'm not selling for a while longer.

The properties I buy are in neighborhoods where the tenants generally are not going to lose their jobs or are above the requirements to meet the ERAP requirements (ie. income is below 80 AMI, etc.)

Furthermore, I require the tenants to have 1 year savings to the equivalent of 1 year rent.

That way, should I ever have to take them to Court, I can argue that the tenant could have paid rent through Savings, but chose not to do so.

However, throughout this Pandemic, 40% of my tenants chose to leave rather than stay and not pay rent. These are the kind of Renters I can find in NYC. They were highly qualified and have assets to lose.

I promptly re-rented those apts. Today, I am getting higher rents than pre-pandemic.

Everything is about how you set up your Portfolio and the quality of the tenants in that Portfolio.

@Laura Guy The big issue I see is that for those Tenants that KNOW they will qualify for ERAP, they don't really have a choice but to stop paying rent, even if they have savings OR if they have enough money through UE and the Booster (which ended).

Imagine you are a Renter and you had enough savings to pay your rent for the year. However, the Tenant Advocate tells you that you can get your rent paid for free as you were affected by Covid-19, which maybe true. HOWEVER, if you paid your rent, you certainly will not be reimbursed from ERAP.

That's the biggest flaw in the program. The Law should have promised to Pay the tenants back should they have paid their Landlords the rent through their savings if they were affected by COVID-19. Furthermore, if the tenant had the means to pay the Landlord AND that could be proven in Court, the Landlord should be able to win a judgement on future income after the Pandemic.

Only IF the tenant was both affected by Covid-19 AND they did not have enough Savings OR enough UE / Federal Boost would they be allowed to stay until the Landlord get's paid.

At the same time, the Landlord should have been able to take the Covid-19 Hardship Waiver from the Tenant and give it to their Municipality so that they stop paying Property Taxes and Building Utilities as well as the Bank's Mortgage.

The Gov'mit should have allowed the Landlord to put a lien on the Assets of the tenants who owe rent right away until the Gov'mit is able to pay the back and future rent.

This is an extremely one sided help for the Renter and disaster for the Landlord.

The problem is always that these laws could have been worked out in such great ways for the Majority, both Tenants and Landlords, if only the Politicians would just think several steps ahead instead of just ONE.

This is EXACTLY why, when I do buy properties in Liberal NYC, the epicenter of Liberalism, as long as my Portfolio of Properties can be steered away from the mess of the unintended consequences of bad politics.

I also now have the added advantage of having NONE of my properties affected except for minor leaks during the Hurricane IDA historic flooding.

Sometime after the Pandemic, I may convert all my Multi-Family properties to Condos and sell it all as it will be the highest appreciation I will see at any point of time in the 24 years I have been buying NYC properties when considering that I have easily survived the Pandemic and Hurricane IDA.

What we need to do is to try to buy investments that can withstand the Long Arm of the Laws that are passed by Liberals who just make it worse for everyone, including their constituents, the Renters, who will suffer from much higher rents in the future.

5 Reply

Ron Brady

Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes

5y

@Victor S.

Thank you for the citations and I stand corrected. President Biden would narrow (not eliminate) 1031s to a $500k gain per year for singles and a $1M gain per year for married filing jointlys. So it looks like we both stand coorected.

1 Reply

Mike Dymski

Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

5y

There was also unprecedented stimulus, loan forbearance, unemployment benefits, and low interest rates that benefited most investors in a massive way. Economic occupancy is high, and savings levels and asset values (stock and real estate) are at record levels. The wealth gap between owners and residents increased (not decreased) with all the recent government actions. In addition to fighting dumb policy that does not work, we have to adapt our strategies...to the government supporting the lower and middle income levels as it's only going to continue/increase (with automation, the income gap, and the dependent generation).

3 Reply

Shiloh LundahlPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Laura Guy let’s not rewrite history here. The moratorium began under Trump and was ended under Biden. Yes, the decision came down from the (conservative majority) Supreme Court and yes, Republicans claim to have been against it all along. That does not negate the ABSOLUTE FACT that the moratorium originated and STOOD for MONTHS under the admin of Donald J Trump.

It is not so much about how the moratorium began. I can understand why it began based on how little our knowledge of the virus was when the pandemic began. But after we understood the virus and how to make adjustments to work to make the environment safe enough to work, the government should not have extended the moratorium. The extending has had a negative effect on landlords and the mindset of many renters.

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Marcus Auerbach

Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes

5y

I agree with Mike - it was a net gain for most of us, look at your bank account and at your portfolio worth, even though I think some of the programs were rushed / poorly designed and terribly executed with millions not getting where they were intended to go.

But the bigger issue is where do we go as a country in the next 10, 20 or 30 years economically. The infrastructure bill was decades overdue, we are basically BRRRR-ing the country after the previous generations didn't do any upkeep - so much of our infrastructure was built under Eisenhower.

One thing I heave learned in corporate competing against large asian corporations is they have long range goals and strategy to support them. They laugh about us, because we are internally devided over stupid day to day issues, while they are eating our lunch.

China has poured more concrete over the last 5 years than the US in the last 100, meanwhile we think we are number one. Look at us, we have a population that is in poor health with every 2nd person presently or soon diabetic, wide spread poverty, a level of crime and gun violence like no other country on earth, we managed to make education FOR-profit leading to massive student debt and universities being richer than small countries, if you travel a bit you can see that our infrastructure is worse than some of the ******** countries we look down on, our health care system is F'd up beyond believe, our food is one of the unhealthiest in the world, we are consuming ressources at a level that nobody can match, we are addicted to buying cheap crap nobody needs, have a dispose everything mentality, meanwhile our population is less happy than most of our peer countries.

We just got back from visiting my family in Europe and after we landed at OHare and sat in a dirty, beat up shutte bus getting us to the parking lot over a cracked concrete road, garbage on the side of the road, power lines hanging everywhere, my US born wife shook her head said: I can't believe how run down and ****** everything is here..

The US is a fantastic country and I have chosen to live here for a good reason, but we really need to get our head of our you know what and start thinking about where we want to be a few decades. We are faced with challanges that are so vastly different than ever before, going back to how it was in the good old days (when exactly was that anyway??) is certainly not going to help with any of that.

6 Reply

Brian Ploszay

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

I did not have any evictions during this time. But I threw larger amounts of money to get a couple of tenants to leave. I got lucky.

Another thing happened. Almost no tenants moved last year. Just now, tenants are starting to move, and it feels like an avalanche. Pent up demand to move. I live in a cold weather area, so this is all hitting late summer and hopefully stops by late autumn.

Back to the eviction moratorium. Today, it is set up that landlords can get some compensation from tenants who are not paying due to covid related unemployment. Completely uncooperative tenants, you can get out.

0 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

@Marcus Auerbach Just curious really what was the stance on VAX there in Germany ?

Although most every country has some issues of some sort no place is perfect except maybe Singapore

PS as a young agent I flew to Hong Kong to meet with some Asian investors Circa 1982 ish and it was amazing although I had many transactions under my belt i was still very green to the world of high finance etc.. I made few calls when i got there and was able to get right in to see decision makers this would never have happened in the US.. But when i showed them my wares they look at me and say those properties are built out of wood.. we don't buy wood we only buy concrete so it last wood rots.. LOL However good bad or indifferent Foreigners make up a huge % of ownership of quite a few of our flagship properties etc. And now moving into ag and of course been in manufacturing for years.

I was at a wedding in Singapore a few years back and the gentlemen at my table owned 4 manufacturing companies in the US.. And my host there that was getting married his family business makes the electric motors for GE washer dryers ( in Vietnam ) China has become to expensive.

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Account Closed

Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 420 posts · 388 votes

5y

@Shiloh Lundahl I’m less concerned with the mindset of renters, and more concerned with the legal precedent this has set. Renters, at some point, will realize their unlawful protections have lapsed and adjust accordingly. The legal precedent can never be undone. I’ll be shocked if 50% of landlords are made whole by backpay. Once again, good citizens who provide clean, functioning, affordable housing are going to pay at the hands of government intervention.

I’m not for it.

1 Reply

Victor S.

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Marcus Auerbach:

But the bigger issue is where do we go as a country in the next 10, 20 or 30 years economically. The infrastructure bill was decades overdue, we are basically BRRRR-ing the country after the previous generations didn't do any upkeep - so much of our infrastructure was built under Eisenhower.

how much of this bill is dedicated to the actual infrastructure, tho? the "small" one the passed in the house:

"The 2,702-page bipartisan bill contains just $550 billion in new spending. The $1.2 trillion figure comes from including additional funding normally allocated each year for highways and other infrastructure projects. The new spending consists of:

$110 billion for roads and bridges. In addition to construction and repair, the funding also helps pay for transportation research at universities, funding for Puerto Rico’s highways, and “congestion relief” in American cities."

Understanding the Infrastructure Bills (investopedia.com)

what about the big daddy bill? looks like a bunch of worthless .gov "committees"

Biden's Infrastructure Plan: Inside the $4.5 Trillion Deal - SmartAsset

$3.5 Trillion Infrastructure Agreement
Budget	Program	Goals
$726 Billion	Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions	Fund universal pre-K for 3- and 4-year olds. Provide child care for working families. Create tuition-free community college. Invest in HBCUs, MSIs, HSIs, TCUs, and ANNHIs. Increase the maximum Pell grant award. Invest in school infrastructure, student success grants, and educators. Fund primary care. Invest in maternal, behavioral and racial health equity. Fund pandemic preparedness initiatives. Promote workforce development and job training, among other initiatives.
$332 Billion	Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs	Create and preserve affordable housing. Provide down payment assistance, rental assistance, and other homeownership initiatives. Develop and revitalize communities through zoning, land use and transit improvements. Invest in public housing and sustainability.
$198 Billion	Committee on Energy and Natural Resources	Create a clean electricity payment program. Fund consumer rebates to weatherize and electrify homes. Finance domestic manufacturing of clean energy and auto supply chain technologies. Procure energy efficient materials. Fund climate research, infrastructure research for DOE National Labs, hard Rock mining and Department of Interior programs.
$135 Billion	Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry	Fund agriculture conservation, drought and forestry programs to help reduce carbon emissions and prevent wildfires. Invest in rural development and rural co-op clean energy. Fund agricultural climate and infrastructure research, among other initiatives.
$107 Billion	Committee on the Judiciary	Seek lawful permanent status for qualified immigrants. Invest in smart and effective border security measures. Fund a community violence intervention initiative.
$83 Billion	Committee on Commerce, Science and Technology	Invest in technology and transportation. Fund research, manufacturing and economic development. Invest in coastal resiliency and healthy oceans. Fund National Science Foundation research and technology directorate.
$67 Billion	Committee on Environment and Public Works	Create clean energy technology accelerator to fund low-income solar and other climate-friendly technologies. Make environmental justice investments in clean water affordability and access, healthy ports and climate equity. Fund EPA climate and research programs. Make Federal investments in energy efficient buildings and green materials. Invest in clean vehicles. Administer a methane polluter fee to reduce carbon emissions.
$37 Billion	Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs	Electrify the federal vehicle fleet (including USPS and Non-USPS). Electrify and rehabilitate federal buildings. Improve cybersecurity infrastructure. Make border management investments, among other initiatives.
$25 Billion	Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship	Provide small business access to credit, investment, and markets.
$20.5 Billion	Committee on Indian Affairs for Health, Education and Housing Programs for Native Americans	Fund Native American health programs and facilities. Invest in education programs and facilities, as well as housing programs, energy programs, resilience and climate programs, BIA programs and facilities, language programs and the Native Civilian Climate Corps.
$18 Billion	Committee on Veterans Affairs for Upgrades to VA Facilities	Upgrade VA facilities.

1 Reply

Nick Barlow

Warsaw, IN · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 270 votes

5y

@Laura Guy I’m in Indiana too, and agree with you and OP. Please PM me if you need additional signatories to make it class action and demonstrate there are many people who the feel the same.

0 Reply

Mary M.

Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

5y

I am curious who and what the OP is suing? Isnt it a bit late to sue over eviction moratoriums since they are (mostly) no more?

I have 20 units, and out of those 20 everyone paid - until December 2020 then a tenant didnt pay but left owing me 2 months rent (i applied for govt funding for this but have not yet been paid - see below) . Everyone paid again until April when one tenant decided to not pay - he still has not paid and I am not able to evict him *yet* because the money that we are supposed to get to cover the unpaid rent is conditional on me not evicting for 90 days... .... oh and now I have a second teant who has taken the govt up on their offer to pay the tenants rent for 3 months.... so now I have 2 tenants not paying....

I am very liberal when it comes to social policies.... but I have no clue wtf the powers that be were thinking when they set up these LL programs.... ok, well I know what they were thinking - tie the money to LL not evicting while the funds are being processed and drag your heels in getting LLs paid as.long.as.possible so tenants can stay as long as possible..... now, we have a *new* funding program that will cover the rent for the time the that we have been waiting to get paid! its nuts! I have been waiting to get paid for 6 months.......

oh and its costing almost a million $$ for oregon to have the software created and the applications processed.

The other policies that drive me crazy are the ones that "protect" nonpaying tenants from their actions... tenants may not be denied based on whether they did or did not pay rent during the pandemic and any eviction as a result of non paid rent during the pandemic may also not be used to screen.....

Now, most tenants are decent people and pay their bills including their rent.... but of course there are folks that think since the govt is offering to pay their rent - why not??? and I have to admit that when I was young I probably would of had the govt pay my rent if I had to opportunity... what tenants dont realize is that at least here, LLs are not getting paid as the system is so Fd up!

What I have learned is communication is critical and if you have no power over who lives in your asset then its a waste of energy to get worked up over it :(

ETA link to dashboard that shows how many folks have asked for rent to be paid and how many LLs have been paid - note this is just the program where the TENANT can ask for the rent to be paid - not the one for LLs to ask for the rent to be paid...https://public.tableau.com/app...

2 Reply

Marcus Auerbach

Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes

5y

@Victor S. - I am not in favor of this bill!

We only have two parties in the US and they are actually very similar when it comes to actual policy; yes they are devided over some emotional and moral issues with not much physical impact on the economic future of our country. When I moved here I was shocked to realize about that "show" these two parties put on.

In reality we are run by big industry loobies who have little interest in change. The big 10 make policy and actually physically write most of the legislation which is then given to our politicians as a proposal. (That's how we vote on 1000s of pages of legislation none of our representatives have fully read or understood).

If you start thinking what would be important to achieve in 30 years (i.e. for your children adult life) you get to a completely different set of issues, we are not even talking about.

@Jay Hinrichs - what do you mean by VAX? If it's vacination, then pretty much the same as here in the US: supporters vs conspirathy. The irony in that both countries I know well, Germany and Austria, the anti vaxers blame their respective political leaders (personal, by name) that they have invented the issue to supress the population. For example many people in Germany believe that Chacelor Angela Merkl instigated the virus when she was visiting the Wuhan lab a few years ago. From an American perspective this is of course totally absurd, we have our own theories.

But maybe you meant something totally different ;-)

@Jay Hinrichs

2 Reply

Mary M.

Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

5y

and, for the record - I have no problem with the govt stepping up and helping those who lost their jobs due to covid - my issue is the implementation.... which was truly awful...... we all make mistakes... but this one was pretty dumb IMO.

2 Reply

Laura Guy

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 144 votes

5y

@Mary M. SCOTUS decision was that the CDC does not have the authority to enact a moratorium - but they made it very clear that congress, and local governments, have full authority to do so. What we are saying is that they do not. We are suing on both a state and federal level.

0 Reply

Mary M.

Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Laura Guy:

@Mary M. SCOTUS decision was that the CDC does not have the authority to enact a moratorium - but they made it very clear that congress, and local governments, have full authority to do so. What we are saying is that they do not. We are suing on both a state and federal level.

Curious who you are suing and for what? Eviction moratoriums are (mostly) over

0 Reply

Laura Guy

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 144 votes

5y

@Mary M. we are suing the state of Indiana and the federal government under the takings clause.

0 Reply

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

@Bruce Woodruff @Laura Guy actually neither president or this moratorium or this Supreme Court established the precedent. Eviction moratoriums were ordered during both the Spanish flu epidemic in 1919 and the polio epidemic and were upheld multiple times.

It may be an overreach—I’m not arguing the merits either way—but it is not some new power conjured out of thin air. If it is “tyranny” then we have lived with that tyranny for a long time.

0 Reply

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

@Bruce Woodruff @Laura Guy actually neither president or this moratorium or this Supreme Court established the precedent. Eviction moratoriums were ordered during both the Spanish flu epidemic in 1919 and the polio epidemic and were upheld multiple times.

It may be an overreach—I’m not arguing the merits either way—but it is not some new power conjured out of thin air. If it is “tyranny” then we have lived with that tyranny for a long time.

We're all aware that this is not a first. The Govt and culture of those days was much different and not so frightening to have a 'temporary' Govt overreach. This is clearly a Govt with a different agenda.

1 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 420 posts · 388 votes

5y

@Bruce Woodruff please cite your sources on the existence of a Federally mandated eviction moratorium during the Spanish Flu and Polio. I’m honestly curious to read about it because to my knowledge neither epidemic instituted this kind of Federal control.

0 Reply

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

@Account Closed

dont blame @bruce Woodruff it was me :) go to the supreme court.gov website, its in there under appellate cases, If I remember correctly the site has a searchable index. I posted a quote from the site on these boards some while ago though I cant navigate through the BP searches to find it right now.

There is a slight, and to some, perhaps a key, wrinkle though: The supreme court upon appeal upheld STATE (NY) eviction moratoriums, not a federal one.

However Federal mandates around health in general are a pretty active area of law with a long history. I don't pretend to know it all or deeply. I would argue a federal eviction moratorium had as much to do with a changing understanding of public health as an expansion of federal power.

I just read an interesting article in Orange County Registrar (hardly a left wing rag!) from a law professor about the supreme court upholding a 1905 Mass smallpox vaccine mandate and comparing it to this courts decision. Agree or disagree, it is a reasoned take.

https://www.ocregister.com/202...

I also disagree with Bruce that "we all know this is not a first". People don't usually think back before their own time and love to throw around the word, "unprecedented" when they really mean "new to me."

Maybe we can argue about the consequences of these action on real estate world, and the appropriate response without catastrophizing the end of the republic?

1 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 420 posts · 388 votes

5y

@Jonathan R McLaughlin very interesting article…though as you said, it’s a massive wrinkle to execute an eviction moratorium at a Federal level. To my point, Trump wears the inaugural sash on that one. The lack of expediency in legislating this issue has been astounding as it is, in fact, unprecedented.

0 Reply

Victor S.

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Jonathan R McLaughlin very interesting article…though as you said, it’s a massive wrinkle to execute an eviction moratorium at a Federal level. To my point, Trump wears the inaugural sash on that one. The lack of expediency in legislating this issue has been astounding as it is, in fact, unprecedented.

Trump is gone. Don't let him live rent-free in your head.

1 Reply

For those that "haven't been affected by eviction moratorium"

For those that "haven't been affected by eviction moratorium"

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