De-escalating an angry guest - check out time drama!!

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De-escalating an angry guest - check out time drama!!

Rachel Hughes

Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes

I think they call them "Karens"? Perhaps 10 am is too early of a check out time?

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Chris Gottshall

Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 80 votes

10 AM is very typical. This is another person playing the "but a hotel would do..." card. If you want a hotel experience, stay at a hotel, Karen. It is amazing how much time she had to invest in writing all of those messages when she allegedly "needed" extra time get packed up!

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Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
6y
10 am might be early, but they knew that when they booked it. The fact that she wanted an early check in and a late check out...and then didn't arrive until 6 pm anyhow and then slept in...I'll bet if you check her reviews for other places, they are all negative.
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Mark Miles
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 540 posts · 714 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Rachel Hughes:
I think they call them "Karens"? Perhaps 10 am is too early of a check out time?

10 am is DEFINITELY NOT too early!! Just tell them that your cleaners have a very tight schedule and you need them out by 10 AM. That’s all you need to say
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Chris Gottshall
Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 80 votes
6y
10 AM is very typical. This is another person playing the "but a hotel would do..." card. If you want a hotel experience, stay at a hotel, Karen. It is amazing how much time she had to invest in writing all of those messages when she allegedly "needed" extra time get packed up!
3 Reply
Mark Futalan
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2018 · 263 posts · 95 votes
6y
We do 11am check out and 4pm check in. We sometimes allow guests to check in early if our schedule allows and guests seem to appreciate that and it’s usually reflective in our reviews. We usually communicate with our guests beforehand if there are same day turnovers that don’t allow for later check in or check out. Most guests understand and have non problem with it.
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Luke CarlPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Rachel Hughes:
I think they call them "Karens"? Perhaps 10 am is too early of a check out time
I can't read those messages but totally feel your pain. I've had a string of really bad guests lately. One of them threw a huge fit about no early check-in which resulted in 3 stars in a gorgeous newly remodeled million dollar home 2 blocks from the beach.

Podcast Guest on Show #30
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Rachel Hughes
OP
Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes
6y
@Theresa Harris She claimed that they stay in Airbnbs all the time but she has no reviews from other hosts. The good news is I get to write her first review (insert evil laugh)
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Rachel Hughes
OP
Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes
6y
@Chris Gottshall Exactly! Her poor kids must've left the place starving and half-dressed.
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Rachel Hughes
OP
Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes
6y
@Mark Futalan That has been my experience as well up to this point. I flex on check-in/out time quite often. Unfortunately this group stayed at one of my new listings so her review will be 1 of 2 and impact my overall rating big time. Sigh.
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Rachel Hughes
OP
Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes
6y
@Luke Carl Damn. I wish Airbnb was more lenient with their review removal policy. Especially when the guest is acting particularly irrational.
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David Silver
Investor · Atlanta · Member since 2019 · 28 posts · 28 votes
6y
@Rachel Hughes I think 10am is too early for check out. 11am or later will be more popular. In your response I would not have promised anything until you checked with the cleaner.
However, this guest booked it as a 10am checkout, so giving them a later checkout is something you are under no obligation to offer. They are clearly high drama, and are a small minority of the guest population. Don’t worry about one experience with one guest. Even if they give you a 1 star review you can still be a “superhost” as long as a majority of your most recent reviews are 5 stars. After they have checked out I would send them a generic friendly thank you with no review and no response until their review is public. If it’s very negative, you can leave a friendly response that says nothing negative about the guest on airbnb that everyone can read. Future guests can read this and figure everything out for themselves.
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Rachel Hughes
OP
Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes
6y
@David Silver You're right - I should not have said "it should be no issue". I am kind of frustrated with my cleaner. She didn't end up showing up until 11 am anyway.
0 Reply
Brian G.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Rachel Hughes what a bummer. We tell our guests who request an early check in that our cleaners need adequate time to prepare the property for their stay, that their cleaning route changes depending on which properties are turning over, sometimes we are first and sometimes last and we will message them when it is ready, ie no promises for early check in but if the cabin is ready before 4pm we will let you know. For us it doesn’t make sense to ask the cleaners for early check in/late check out as we simply don’t think it’s reasonable for them to rearrange their cleaning route/schedule based on one guest request when they are cleaning 8-12 cabins on a given day (ie Fridays and Sundays are the busiest!). For a late check out request on a same day turn the answer is no, our cleaners need adequate time to prepare for the next guest, etc. We want our cleaners on site asap just in case there is an issue that needs to be resolved prior to the next guest check in.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
I think the name calling is unprofessional. How would feel if your name was actually Karen and people decided to use your name in a derogatory manner? I understand you are venting, but mocking customers on a public forum can we a bad idea. Just something to consider.
As far as what you could have done differently, you should not have said "that should be ok". You should have said, "my cleaning person is usually there promptly at 10AM, because the house takes time to thoroughly clean." You could have even mentioned due to COVID, it is taking longer to clean houses, which should be true assuming you are taking extra precautions. Tell them to do their best to be out by 10AM and alert your cleaning person they may be a few minutes late.
Like it or not, AirBNB customers compare AirBNB to hotels, because they are interchangeable and compete with each other. I say this as a customer who shops both options. Hotels generally allow check out at 11AM and you can usually late check out, so I see where her expectation comes from. That being said, I don't consider 10AM unreasonable.
This lady and her family created their own problem by waking up late and she is frustrated about that. The frustration is directed at you, but that is what most people do. Rarely does anyone take responsibility and ask the tough question, "what could I have done differently". Your responses to her where professional and that is all you can do.
Ultimately this was all pointless because the cleaning lady didn't get there until 11AM. How is it possible at 9:30AM that the cleaning lady doesn't know if she will be at the next job by 10:30 or 11? My guess is they didn't leave a tip for her...
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Rachel Hughes
OP
Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2019 · 85 posts · 62 votes
6y
@Joe Splitrock I get what you're saying but I don't think the "Karen" social media trend is derogatory. It's meant to be light-hearted and fun. I know a lot of people named Karen and they're all lovely people.
I really do understand her frustration... but Airbnb guests should understand that we cannot offer the same type of flexibility as hotels. We simply don't have the scale.
They definitely did not leave a tip haha. My cleaner is usually much more flexible and I really did think it would be ok. Definitely should not have said that to the guest in retrospect.
1 Reply
Robert SchulmeistersPro Member
Member since 2019 · 35 posts · 29 votes
6y
As for the people who ask for an inch and take a mile.

It was once suggested to me to not let counter offers go without consequences.

ex. "We would be happy to help you Mrs Smith, for an extra hour. Over sleeping happens to all of us. Please note that there will be $50 charge for offsetting the cleaning and maintenance already scheduled. May I arrange this accommodation for you Mrs Smith? with a smile!

BP Brandon Turner repeatedly says he trains his tenants that this is a business. Treat it as one.
Difficult people are all around us and rarely it is about you or a reflection of you. Some people are just nasty unhappy people. Try not to take it personally.
May I suggest for future negotiations a great book by the once lead hostage negotiator for the FBI.
Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It by Chris Voss

I don't think it gets any more stressful that negotiating for people's lives in chaotic & violent circumstances.
This is one of those books you can re read and get more every time you read it. You can implement it nearly all phases of life.
If you work in any service related industry you often get an earful. With so many how to books it's tough to know who to listen to. Think Dale Carnegie and Robert Cialdini taken to the next level with practical applications. He has free videos on line.
Also available on audible to listen while you drive or mow the lawn.
1 Reply
Matt Millard
Lewisville, TX · Member since 2015 · 341 posts · 264 votes
6y
I was the angry Airbnb guest in San Diego last year with good reason. They advertised a bed & it was a plastic couch from ikea.
As usual in 2020, Rude host & no help from air bnb. Boycott!
0 Reply
Matt Millard
Lewisville, TX · Member since 2015 · 341 posts · 264 votes
6y
I was the angry Airbnb guest in San Diego last year with good reason. They advertised a bed & it was a plastic couch from ikea.
As usual in 2020, Rude host & no help from air bnb. Boycott!
0 Reply
Andy Rouvalis
Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 14 posts · 7 votes
6y
@Rachel Hughes I applaud your patience. My places vary with either a 10:00 or 11:00 check out but I will always try to accommodate a late check out (or early check in which is 3:00) if it is possible, why not? Sometimes it isn't possible though, and guests need to realize that, unfortunately many don't. My question is if a hotel was less expensive and offered a later check out why didn't she book there??? I'm amazed that you even allow a 1 night rental as they can be so much work.
0 Reply
Robert SchulmeistersPro Member
Member since 2019 · 35 posts · 29 votes
6y
As for the people who ask for an inch and take a mile.

It was once suggested to me to not let counter offers go without consequences.

ex. "We would be happy to help you Mrs Smith, for an extra hour. Over sleeping happens to all of us. Please note that there will be $50 charge for offsetting the cleaning and maintenance already scheduled. May I arrange this accommodation for you Mrs Smith? with a smile!

BP Brandon Turner repeatedly says he trains his tenants that this is a business. Treat it as one.

Difficult people are all around us and rarely it is about you or a reflection of you. Some people are just nasty unhappy people. Try not to take it personally.

May I suggest for future negotiations a great book by the once lead hostage negotiator for the FBI.

Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It by Chris Voss

I don't think it gets any more stressful that negotiating for people's lives in chaotic & violent circumstances.

This is one of those books you can re read and get more every time you read it. You can implement it nearly all phases of life.

If you work in any service related industry you often get an earful. With so many how to books it's tough to know who to listen to. Think Dale Carnegie and Robert Cialdini taken to the next level with practical applications. He has free videos on line.

Also available on audible to listen while you drive or mow the lawn.

0 Reply
Michael BaumPro Member
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
I think she was angling for a free stay. Our check out is at 10am and check in is at 5pm. 2700sqft house takes a long while to get clean.
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