Going to Jail and need advice!

Chantel Davis

Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes

8y

I say let him finish the job entirely. He is doing a good job so far and you have no one else to take his place right now. Is he going to be a top choice in the future? Maybe not. But right now, he’s helping you and you are helping him. Maybe he’s stealing because he is in a bad place in his life. Or Maybe he’s a a legit thief? Who knows. But it shows a lot he’s back at work. It shows he’s hungry and ready to work. That is hard to find. But, only time will tell. for now, I think in the sort of pinch you are in, push through. Have a conversation with him to see where he is at and what kind of person he is. Feel him out. But In the mean time, you could look for someone else you can hire for future projects, that you have solid referrals from. Maybe hire the guy that was stealing for smaller projects in the future but I don’t think you should fire the guy right now. You need him. take it day by day. Just my 2 cents.

Dave FosterBusiness Member

Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes

8y

@Rocky Griffin, What's he done to make you fire him? He gave you a good bid. You're pleased with his work. He was at work today (and if he was sober that would make him employee of the month in Key West).

Be very careful when you... heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another.....

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Chantel Davis

Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes

8y

One thing I forgot to mention. You haven’t said he was stealing from you and he’s been living in the property. So, he hasn’t stolen from you, price is reasonable, he’s doing a good job and he is reliable (when not in jail) This also goes a long way in you decision to fire him. I think you should further analyze the situation.

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Edmond, OK · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 107 votes

8y

His arrest was confirmed by myself through county records. Just to clarify my feelings are to leave him on the job. I am most curious how other investors would handle such a situation.

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

quick question, is the stuff he was allegedly stealing (an arrest is not a conviction) going in your house? It might be worth a quick check with an attorney to understand your liability and your obligations.

I don't pretend to know anything about it, but having stolen goods installed, especially if you have personal knowledge of the circumstances can't be a good thing to be involved with.

6 Reply

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Edmond, OK · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 107 votes

8y

@Jonathan R McLaughlin That is a very good point. Ill shoot my Attorney an email in the morning.

Todd Dexheimer

Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

8y

Fire him today! I have lived this same type of story several times and it never, I repeat never works out. If you wait, you will regret it (first verify that this is 100% true)

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

good luck Rocky! Would be very curious to learn what they say.

Tim B.

Flipper/Rehabber · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2017 · 33 posts · 24 votes

8y

If he's stealing and installing at your residence can Lowe's not come after you and your residence (subrogation)

Or are you supplying all and paying for all and he's just the installer?

You have a lot to think about.

Hope that helps.

Karen O.

NYC, NY · Member since 2016 · 617 posts · 456 votes

8y

Could he be a kleptomaniac or have OCD? Since he was arrested but back working the next day, I'd also want to know what he took and if it wound up in your house.

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Edmond, OK · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 107 votes

8y

So far, he has done framing and drywall work. All large materials. I am concerned that he may have been in the lumber yard and attempted to leave with more then her purchased. I wonder If I am able to get that information from the police department? Naturally I don't want to to put my property in jeopardy or put myself at risk for being accused of receiving stolen property. I will present my contract and the situation to my attorney and go from there.

Dan Wickland

Rental Property Investor · wyoming · Member since 2017 · 76 posts · 73 votes

8y

@Nathan Gesner "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, try hiring an amateur." - Great quote

Marty True

Rental Property Investor · Miami Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 227 posts · 106 votes

8y

@Rocky Griffin another thing to consider, and be concerned with is... by letting him "live" there while he is working, if it has been 30+ days, he is legally a "tenant" and you may potentially have to go through the eviction process to get him out. Even if there is no lease, if it's been 30 days or more, then this is a concern. Of course, this is purely from my own knowledge of the laws in Florida, best to consult your attorney on this as well.

OP

Flipper/Rehabber · Edmond, OK · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 107 votes

8y

Marty True I wrote the contract in a way that he acknowledged his lack of tenancy and a termination date.

2 Reply

Michael Ablan

Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Have you brought it up with him? Maybe having an adult conversation with the man will help you make your final decision. Like others have said, you may be liable since he is probably using these stolen goods to use in your homes renovation.

Good luck!

John W.

Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 130 votes

8y

Not to paint with a broad brush but many contractors are criminals so it shouldn't be a surprise. I say keep an eye on him and let him finish the work.

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

8y

Leverage his criminal charges to your advantage. He will be in a difficult position if you fire him and he knows it. Use him to your advantage and terminate when the it is to your best advantage.

Victor S.

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Rocky Griffin:

So far, he has done framing and drywall work. All large materials. I am concerned that he may have been in the lumber yard and attempted to leave with more then her purchased. I wonder If I am able to get that information from the police department? Naturally I don't want to to put my property in jeopardy or put myself at risk for being accused of receiving stolen property. I will present my contract and the situation to my attorney and go from there.

Sometimes OSCN has actual docs describing the situation. What kind of theft is he charged with?

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JD MartinBusiness Member

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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

8y

I once had a gutter contractor tell me after a job "I'm surprised you let me have and finish this job". When I asked him why, he said he figured once I saw him on the news I would have cancelled him. When I asked him why he was on the news, he said he supposedly hired a hit man to kill his wife. The hit man turned out to be an undercover officer. I told him "lucky I rarely watch the news".

In any case, the wife didn't die and he did a good job on the gutters so I was satisfied. ;)

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Joe SplitrockPro Member

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Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

8y

@Rocky Griffin tell him you need to talk to him. Let him know you are aware of the situation with his arrest and ask for him to explain. If you choose to keep him, you will have his loyalty for helping him instead of kicking him when he was down.

It is hard to walk in another persons shoes. An ex Marine facing jail time that loses his job could be the final straw in a struggling life. I don't know him or his situation, but my point is how you handle this has repercussions. Your grace in his time of need could mean more than you ever know.

9 Reply

Austin Hendrickson

Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 139 posts · 143 votes

8y

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

I once had a gutter contractor tell me after a job "I'm surprised you let me have and finish this job". When I asked him why, he said he figured once I saw him on the news I would have cancelled him. When I asked him why he was on the news, he said he supposedly hired a hit man to kill his wife. The hit man turned out to be an undercover officer. I told him "lucky I rarely watch the news".

In any case, the wife didn't die and he did a good job on the gutters so I was satisfied. ;)

Yikes you can't make that one up. Dodged a bullet with that one!

Yonah WeissPro Member

Cost Segregation Expert and Investor · Lakewood, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Rocky Griffin tell him you need to talk to him. Let him know you are aware of the situation with his arrest and ask for him to explain. If you choose to keep him, you will have his loyalty for helping him instead of kicking him when he was down.

It is hard to walk in another persons shoes. An ex Marine facing jail time that loses his job could be the final straw in a struggling life. I don't know him or his situation, but my point is how you handle this has repercussions. Your grace in his time of need could mean more than you ever know.

Well said. I appreciate your sensitivity, and I couldn't agree more. Often in the business world we tend to only think of ourselves, and what we can get out of it. And forget that people have feelings, and true business is really about being aware of that.

I used to be part of a Real Estate agency called Synergy RE (inspired by Stephen Covey), and on our business card was a logo of two people intertwining (an artsy kind of drawing). I once gave my card to an agent representing the other side of the transaction, and he was surprised at why I didn't have a logo of a house or property. In his words, "what do people have to do with real estate?"

We can never lose sight of the fact that people have everything to do with our business.

Derreck WellsPro Member

Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 544 posts · 269 votes

8y

Let him finish.

1) He's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. An arrest doesn't make him a criminal.

2) IF it's true and he was stealing, one of the concerns raised in this discussion is of him using stolen materials in your property. If he was stealing materials and not tools, I'm going to assume he got caught stealing them... hence the arrest... and didn't actually get them back to the job.

3) You're happy with him and his work. What he does on his time is irrelevant to your job. He was back to work the day after the arrest, right?

4) People will steal from a company assuming the insurance will cover the loss, but they would never steal from a person who would actually lose something. This was proven to me in an ethics poll about returning an envelope full of money. The majority would keep it if it fell off an armored truck, but if it fell out of a person's car, would return it. So with that mentality in mind, this person may be willing to steal tools or materials from Lowe's, but would never dream of stealing from you. Especially if he thinks of you as a friend... and a homeless vet that wants to work to keep a roof over his head sounds like someone I wouldn't mind being friends with.