What do you Carry?

What do you Carry?

Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Let's face it, we live in a violent society. The average middle-class American doesn't see it, but those of us that invest in lower income neighborhoods see it every day. For an average, honest, middle-class or upper-class citizen, discovering the reality of lower income America can be quite a shock (I know, it was to me). Whether you're a wholesaler that sells lower income properties to landlords or you're a landlord yourself, you could be involved in a violent encounter at any time. Drugs are rampant in low income areas and many drug addicts will do ANYTHING to get their drugs. Real estate investors (rehabbers, wholesalers, and landlords) are seen by many as rich fatcats who are prime targets for criminals (especially when you're on their turf).

So, my question is do you carry a handgun for protection? If so, what kind of gun do you carry; how many rounds does it hold; what caliber is it; do you carry extra ammo; what kind of ammo do you carry; and what training have you had?

Since I'm asking the question, I'll start. Ohio passed its concealed carry law about 5 years ago - about the same time that I started buying low income apartment buildings. After seeing the things that happen in low income areas, I decided that it would prudent to be able to protect myself from the druggies and other criminals that frequent these areas. So, I took a concealed carry class and bought a .32 Cal Beretta Tomcat, which is an 8 shot, semi-automatic pistol. I chose this gun because it was very small and easy to conceal. I carried this gun until early 2009.

In December 2008 (approximately), I was the only witness to an arson fire/attempted murder at a building near one of my low income apartment buildings. The perpetrator was a well-known local criminal who has been arrested over 200 times, including a felony conviction for assaulting a police officer. I have previously had this guy arrested for criminal trespass. Shortly after the incident, I had him arrested again for criminal trespass and he spent significant time in jail. He got out and decided that threatening me and stalking me would be a good idea. He claimed to have a gun. I decided that this was a little more serious than just a general threat and I got a restraining order against him. He almost immediately violated that restraining order and was arrested again.

Since things were getting more serious, I decided that I should carry a more powerful handgun and started doing research. Using the same process that I used to start my rental business, I fully immersed myself into getting this education. I read articles on the internet; studied several books; and even read some FBI reports on the "stopping power" of handguns. What I discovered was truly astounding. I discovered that people don't get shot and immediately drop to the ground (let alone die) like you see on tv. Even the largest caliber handgun will not knock a person off their feet, unless it destroys the Central Nervous System (brain and spinal cord). I also discovered that being shot typically will only kill a person when they bleed out. According to my research, even a person that is shot in the heart will still have about 14 seconds to continue attacking you! Moreover, in MANY instances criminals have been shot multiple times in vital areas and still continued the attack!

In my research, I discovered that about 80% of shots fired in real life gunfights miss their target. I also discovered that about 80% of people that are shot survive. More strikingly, I found that the majority of gunfights happen with the combatants within 6 to 10 feet of each other and almost all gunfights happen within 15 feet. All that practice at the range shooting at 50 feet is worthless in a real gunfight.

So, here is where I'm at today. I have taken an advanced pistol fighting course - a very good idea for anyone carrying a handgun. I also upgraded to a 16 shot Glock model 22 in .40 cal. I carry high grade Hornady self-defense, jacketed hollow point amunition. I also have a spare magazine and a belt holder, although I don't always carry it (how much crap can I carry).

So, how about you? Do you carry a handgun for self-defense and if so, what is it? If you don't carry a handgun, what's your plan for self-defense?

Mike

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Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
17y

You should also make sure you spend the extra money and get night stights. If not I would get trijicon retrofits.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    17y

    Sig 220 Tactical with srt trigger. 8+1 of Corbon HP 230 gr I think. I have an m3x tacitical light. If 9 shots does not cover it I have a remington 870 in the truck loaded with Hornady TAP 00 buck.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    17y

    Start with the 12 gauge with 00 shot and you don't need anything else. Or use slugs.

    Me? An iPhone.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    An IPhone is too expensive to throw at a dangerous criminal. I think you might be better off carrying a rock.

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    17y

    I would think your tenants would have .40 cal glocks mike. All the hood people use .40 cals with "stended clips and they got dat beam on der." A .40 is a useless round. It is basically a 10mm with less powder behind it. If you want a lot of ammo I would go with a 9mm and go with something like a springfield XD-M or SIG (I love sigs). My friend has the Sig 226 blackwater edition and I think that would make a nice gun. I used to carry a ruger LCP with crimsontrace grips. This is a great gun for the summer because it is light and you can not even feel the galco pocket holster they make. This gun is not good in the winter though. .380 auto is no good through those puffy coats people wear. The fibers will clog an HP bullets you might have. In winter I would switch to Hornady Critical Defense. There is an insert in the bullet that stops it from getting caught by cloth.

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    17y

    You should also make sure you spend the extra money and get night stights. If not I would get trijicon retrofits.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Actually, the .40 consistently ranks at the top in studies of actual performance in shootings as well as tests using ballistic gel. You'll notice in the study cited below, that the one-stop performance of the .40 is about 5% better than the 9mm with Corbon JHP+P ammo.

    http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/calloadgoshin.htm

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I carry a Glock Model 30 with 11 rounds of Corbon 230 grain +P jacketed hollowpoints. I also usually pack a spare mag right next to the cellphone. Occasionally I'll have a Smith and Wesson Chief's special .38 special in an ankle rig with 158 grain soft lead hollowpoints - what's known as the "FBI load" because it was the Fed's favored load when they carried the .38 special. I believe in having a second gun as a backup in case the first breaks, is lost, runs out of ammo, etc.... I also carry a Benchmade folding knife with a 3 1/2" blade and yes, as someone mentioned - the cellphone and a good flashlight are very much a necessity.

    I also have had martial arts training - which I sincerely recommend to every land lord even if you have an aversion to guns.

    As to why the Glock - I actually settled on the Glock 30 after having an e-mail conversation with Massad Ayoob (you can google his name). Having shot and carried a dozen variety of pistols, this is hands down my favorite.

    I also keep a Smith and Wesson 629 44 magnum 4" barrel with 240 grain jhp and a Mossberg 500 with sabot slugs in the truck. The truck guns are there because they're actually legal deer guns here in Indiana. They're defensive use is really a secondary consideration though they will each fill the role just fine.

    As to training - most of my training was hunting related firearms safety training. I also took a basic NRA pistol course in Massachusetts when I lived there. I have been looking at higher level tactical pistol classes. I don't exactly want to pay Gunsite prices if it really isn't worth it. Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Tim

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jeffrey Koenig:
    A .40 is a useless round. It is basically a 10mm with less powder behind it


    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    Actually, the .40 consistently ranks at the top in studies of actual performance in shootings as well as tests using ballistic gel. You'll notice in the study cited below, that the one-stop performance of the .40 is about 5% better than the 9mm with Corbon JHP+P ammo.

    http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/calloadgoshin.htm


    The .40 is a great round with a great track record since it's introduction...and coming from the 10mm round which will take down wild boar with ease and is the ballistic equivalent of the .41 magnum (which is the brainchild of the legendary Elmer Keith) only lends greater credibility to it's performance. This is why the FBI and an increasing number of law enforcement agencies continue to use it with great success. I just went with the .45 in the Glock because the .40 has a snappier kick in the subcompact formation (Mike's Glock is a full size - mine's a subcompact) and the Glock 30 is an accuracy freak. Something about the construction of that particular series of Glock pistols hits every right note with the accuracy gods.

    Originally posted by Jeffrey Koenig:
    You should also make sure you spend the extra money and get night stights. If not I would get trijicon retrofits.


    Agree 100% and voted you up on that. They do make a difference.
  • Philly Area, PA · Member since 2008 · 297 posts · 27 votes
    17y

    The .40 one of the best all around type of round you can carry. Most law enforcement use the .40, I believe.

    I recommend a Glock 23, its a sub compact of the .40. It's a great gun to shoot and is real popular with the combat shooting scene. Incidentally the most popular gun on the scene is probably a tricked out 1911.

    Mike you also bring up some good points about gun fights, in that they happen real close and only usually last less then 10 seconds.

    Mike if I were carry a jacketed hollow round for the .40, its great for self defense.

  • Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 148 posts · 22 votes
    17y

    Guys what about 357 Magnums?

    Anthony

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Anthony,

    As you can see from the table I posted, the .357 has excellent stopping power (on par with the .45 and .40). However, the problem is that most, if not all, .357's are revolvers. Revolvers are GREAT for reliability but generally quite poor from a capacity standpoint. Considering the number of gunfights that have occurred where the criminal wasn't stopped even after many center mass hits - lack of ammo capacity is definitely an issue (at least for me).

    In one recent case, a police officer shot a criminal 22 times, including 15 center mass hits, before the criminal was stopped. While that's certainly unusual, it makes me want to have as many rounds as possible before reloading.

    Do you carry a .357?

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    17y

    I carry a Glock 22. 15 Round Mag.

    I received my training from the U.S Military. I have a Florida Concealed Weapons Permit.

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    17y

    A revolver is fine for 99% of what you would ever use it for. It is often lighter (but with those featherweight comes a nasty kick), and sometimes easier to conceal. I own a CIA 650. People report not being able to use it with Cor-Bon ammo so ALWAYS TEST YOUR AMMO IN ANY SELF DEFENSE WEAPON AND UNLOAD YOUR MAGS FROM TIME TO TIME AND CHECK THE SPRING. Back the revolver. Get a hammerless so it does not snag on anything. With a speedloader I can reload a revolver faster than most cops can reload their glock, so it is just a matter of practice. ITS ALL ABOUT PRACTICE WITH ANY FIREARM.

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Anthony E Russell:
    Guys what about 357 Magnums?

    Anthony


    A great round but very prone to over penetrating a target. That's not a liability you exactly want in an urban setting.
  • Member since 2009 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    M1911 Colt .45 ACP, holds eight but its heavy to carry.

  • Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 148 posts · 22 votes
    17y

    Tim,

    Great point.

    Anthony

  • Philly Area, PA · Member since 2008 · 297 posts · 27 votes
    17y

    The one rule you should remember is this about the type of gun you should carry, proper grip leads to proper sight alignment.

    You can sit here and talk about this gun or that or this type of ammo, but if you cannot hold your weapon properly you are not going to be able to shoot it right.

  • Investor · Kern county Riverside County, CA · Member since 2008 · 494 posts · 261 votes
    17y

    Not a lot of Californians chimming in..Maybe that's because we go to jail for having an unloaded gun not properly stored for transport, huh? I carry a macarov 9mm in the service bed of my truck next to the hilti gun and shots. When working on my rentals in the rougher areas, I put it in my tool bags when entering and exiting the property. Most of my training comes from target practice in the desert and paint ball wars!

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Summerhomes:
    Not a lot of Californians chimming in..Maybe that's because we go to jail for having an unloaded gun not properly stored for transport, huh?


    I feel your pain Derek. I used to be a Cook County, Illinois resident and we had the same thing except you didn't go to jail if you were a professional athlete or a Daley buddy.

    California does have concealed carry and I have heard that some of the northern counties of California freely give quite a few of those CCW permits out. Have you thought of buying a cheap place up north to technically change your residency to another county to get your CCW permit (which is good statewide, as I understand)?

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    17y

    That is a lot of work. Why not just get a Florida or Utah or something that they honor in cali?

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Actually California doesn't honor any other state's carry permits. I've already checked as I visit there occasionally. It's a "may issue" state regulated at the county level by the sheriff so the only real way to get one is to be a scientologist movie star in LA County or go to another county with a sheriff with a different philosophy.

    Another thing about California I've heard is to carry your attorney's business card with your CCW license. In the event you ever have to use your gun in self defense, no matter how justifiable, you will get arrested and will sit in a cell until your attorney gets you out.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Open carry is legal in the People's Republic of California - PROVIDED THE GUN IS UNLOADED!!! There is a growing number of people that open carry an unloaded gun and have their magazine in another belt holster. RIDICULOUS!

    (I wonder if the criminals carry empty guns?)

    We haven't heard much from those that don't carry. If you don't carry, WHY NOT?

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    Open carry is legal in the People's Republic of California - PROVIDED THE GUN IS UNLOADED!!! There is a growing number of people that open carry an unloaded gun and have their magazine in another belt holster. RIDICULOUS!


    Wait a minute..... I can carry my Glock there if I carry it open and unloaded and keep my mag right next to it? How "open" does the carry need to be?
  • Real Estate Investor · Belvidere, IL · Member since 2009 · 169 posts · 65 votes
    17y

    The only thing I carry is my butt out of bad neighborhoods. If I am in an area or going to an area where I feel I might need a gun, I leave or never go there. I have had extensive training in martial arts, weapons use and defense against weapons, and the top two strategies have always been avoidance and escape. Running is a good defense, particularly when most of these bad guys have a hard time hitting a stationary target. I have been through countless drills and have seen training videos of police officers and other professionals in close quarter scenarios, and having and using a pistol is often a bad first choice. We use to train to take someone's weapon from them, and in close quarters it's not that hard. Sometimes you just end up arming your assailant when he takes the gun from you as you struggle to get to it. I understand that there is money to be made in the bad areas as well, I just prefer to pass.

  • Boonies, PA · Member since 2008 · 333 posts · 15 votes
    17y

    I don't go were I don't belong. Rugerlcp.com is something I just picked up. .380 holds 7 rounds at 9oz Not much stopping power but sense I will miss 80% of the time I wear a set of running shoes.

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