Not only are we "dumbing down" in our education system, but ...

Not only are we "dumbing down" in our education system, but ...

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Now this. I guess just like students don't like to perform on tests, the Teachers don't like to have their tenure dependent on their ability to teach.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700039443/Pressured-teachers-tampering-with-tests.html?s_cid=Email-1

I'm sure glad that these teachers are teaching our kids.... Rich

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Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y

Sheesh Jason, it is ok for you to post a humorous post but it is not ok for Rich to do so? He even ended his with "LOL."

As posted earlier, Teacher Unions are extremely powerful and they back the Liberals 100%.

I just resigned a job as Finance Director for a Head Start Program. We spent over $2,000,000 to baby sit 120 kids for the year. That is nearly $17,000.00 a year, per kid, just so mom can stay home and watch The View and Oprah. All studies show that a Head Start trained child, by second grade, is no further along than a child who attended no pre school. Talk about a waste of Billions of dollars annually!

By the way, I love right wing talk radio. It has entertainment value and some truth to it. It sure beats listening to Keith Olberman, Chris Matthews or Cooper Anderson. Funny thing, anyone that criticizes right wing talk radio, when I ask if they have ever actually sat down and listened to a complete show from Rush, Laura, Sean or Glenn, they say "No, I don't have to!" Talk about ignorance. They get their opinion of Right Wing Talk Radio from The View, CNN, MSNBC, Media Matters, MoveOn.org and Nancy Pelosi.

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  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y

    Why not just allow students to vote on where they want to go with their wallet? Over time the poor schools and teachers will be shut down because they can't function with no money or students.

    Seems pretty simple to me...

  • Real Estate Investor · Frisco, TX, TX · Member since 2010 · 388 posts · 138 votes
    16y

    Wow, we are teaching our kids a valuable lesson, if you can't win fairly, just cheat.

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    I like how they say "No Child Left Behind" is the reason teachers and principles are resorting to cheating. Once again, it's Bush's fault these poor teachers are "pressured". :lol:

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Maybe teachers who are too "pressured" to do their job can have a talk with Chris Christie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA

  • Specialist · Katy, TX · Member since 2010 · 28 posts · 8 votes
    16y

    Doesn't everybody have pressure with their job? Why shouldn't it apply to everyone?

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
    Why not just allow students to vote on where they want to go with their wallet?


    Bryan, the solution is simple but implementing it is hard. I believe the U.S. is currently in a state of "regulatory capture" with special interests having undue influence over the politcal parties. The Democracts have been effectively captured by unions and the teachers' unions are among the most powerful. As with any union, their goal is to get the best compensation with the least productivity.

    I actually would love to see unions brought under antitrust scrutiny. When suppliers gang up against a customer, it is clearly a violation of antitrust laws. Why should the suppliers of labor to a company be able to organize?
  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    I've been on a cruise in the Fiords of Norway for aa week. The only news was BBc from England. It was really interesting to see the slant different from CNN. The programs really questioned why we do a lot of the things we do.
    I was on a Costa cruise which is based in Italy. All announcements were in FIVE languages. We were 5th. Italian, German, Spanish, French and English. We were in the small minority. I had a chance to spend a day with 2 couples from Greece. They saw a lot of comparisons in the way they allowed the govt to just keep spending. They're furious and feel the unions are a big part of the problem. They don't think the bailout will help. Just pad politicians coffers for re-election.... Gee, won't happen here. Rich

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    I thought I would bump this classic....Who is for letting parents vote for the school their kid attends with their wallet?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
    15y

    Isn't that what we already do?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
    I thought I would bump this classic....Who is for letting parents vote for the school their kid attends with their wallet?

    You damn liberal. You know who else had schools? Nazis, that's who. And Nazis also had wallets. Clearly, you're just a liberal Nazi who wants to turn this country into a socialist wasteland.

    Cap n trade. Cap n trade.

    Pelosi has a sore foot! Harry Reid once saw an alligator from his car window!!!

    I saw a fly on my plate. Obama is trying to give us all malaria!!! You are voting for malaria!!!

    1+1=3 for large values of one! Glenn Beck said so!!! Mathematicians work for the government so you can't trust them!

    Unicorns aren't real and books have pages...therefore, everything you're saying is wrong and Nancy Reagan likes to play dominos!!! I'm logical, I'm logical!

    Just thought I'd save some time and just jump to where this thread would end up once we got some responses from the talk-show listeners...

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Jason, that post was hilarious. I started reading it before seeing that you had posted and figured it was Tom Cullen who was writing one of his usual things.

    Back to the subject of the thread, I do not see why we should even have the government involved in schools. The government really should not be involved in anything that can be done by the private sector.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    Jason, that post was hilarious. I started reading it before seeing that you had posted and figured it was Tom Cullen who was writing one of his usual things.

    Back to the subject of the thread, I do not see why we should even have the government involved in schools. The government really should not be involved in anything that can be done by the private sector.

    Agreed...

    In all seriousness, this is one of those areas where it's clear that the status quo isn't working (this country is now 15th in the world in education) and clearly the government has no intention of prioritizing education in any way, shape or form.

    Our educational system was designed around churning out good employees during the industrial revolution, and in retrospect (based on the success of this nation during that time) accomplished everything it set out to accomplish. But, the only way to thrive in this global economy is through problem solving and innovation, and our school systems are designed to teach children how to solve problems or how to innovate.

    In short, it sounds like you and Bryan are saying the same thing, and I completely agree...

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Well the devil is in the details. Stricter standardized tests are not the answer IMO. Letting the education consumer vote with their wallet and send their kids to a school of their choosing without regard to where they live is a much better answer.

    Agree? Disagree?

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Bryan, I agree that people should have a choice. But I suspect you are referring to vouchers while I want to see the entire public education system dismantled. Once schools are all private, parents will be able to choose schools and schools will be able to choose students.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    So how would that system work Vikram? Would we take the same money that we currently spend on public schools and give parents a "credit" to go to the private school of their choice?

    How do the other countries that kick our tail do it better?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
    Well the devil is in the details. Stricter standardized tests are not the answer IMO. Letting the education consumer vote with their wallet and send their kids to a school of their choosing without regard to where they live is a much better answer.

    Agree? Disagree?

    Clearly stricter testing isn't the answer -- stricter tests would only prove how bad the system currently is, not fix it...

    I agree that allowing parents to choose schools for their kids is important, but I think it has to go further than that. Even good schools in this country use teaching methods that are incompatible with the end result we need to achieve. Even the best teachers will never turn out innovative young people if they're being force to follow the curriculum and teaching methods currently in use.

    There needs to a be complete overhaul of the system that allows experts (not bureaucrats) to design the types of curriculum necessary to teach problem solving, innovation, business skills, management skills, financial skills, etc, in ways that allow students to take an active role in their education (as opposed to sitting back and being lectured to).

    Now, I'm not going to pretend it's an easy problem to solve or that I have all the answers...in fact, I have no idea how to begin revolutionizing our educational system in this manner, but in my opinion, that's where we need to eventually get...

  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    I have to agree. Schools have become more of a place of indoctrination than a place of education. It is a shame because I think that there are many students that could do very well because of a broken system that doesn't value good teachers and a liberalized the curriculum.

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Bryan, we can have the government just get out of the education system altogether. Let people send their kids to private schools at their own expense. Taxes can be reduced due to the elimination of public schools. This also achieves another important goal, which is to eliminate the teachers unions.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Wouldn't that system be expensive for those that currently benefit from subsidization through tax dollars though Vikram? In Texas my property taxes would go down DRASTICALLY and I could afford to send my daughter to better schools when she is of age.

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Yes, but schools will come up that charge less than they do today. Private schools today are considered expensive because they have to be expensive in order to survive - they are competing as a premium product against a free product of mediocre quality. Once the government is out, market forces will get us schools of different types with different costs. It will not happen overnight, of course, so the idea of vouchers for poor people as a temporary measure may be a way to transition to a new system.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Okay...I guess that makes sense. How would the voucher system work in the short run?

    Is this what the countries that are kicking our tail do?

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    15y

    If we do a voucher system, lets; have some wayto require performance-by teacher AND student. If a college kid gets an academic scholarship, he has to perform or he doesn't get it renewed the following year.

    For the libs and aclu lovers: " the kids are too young. The kids shouldn't need to get answers correct. The kids should just need "to feel good" about their answers. This isn't fair to kids that live in cold areas because it takes more calories to stay warm. Not fair to teachers who don't want to be rated on performance. There is no way to "truly" grade performance.
    LOL. Rich

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:

    For the libs and aclu lovers: " the kids are too young. The kids shouldn't need to get answers correct. The kids should just need "to feel good" about their answers. This isn't fair to kids that live in cold areas because it takes more calories to stay warm. Not fair to teachers who don't want to be rated on performance. There is no way to "truly" grade performance.

    As I was semi-joking above, it was only a matter of time before a right-wing-talk-radio-lover had to turn this into a partisan political discussion that added absolutely nothing constructive...sheesh... :roll:

  • Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Sheesh Jason, it is ok for you to post a humorous post but it is not ok for Rich to do so? He even ended his with "LOL."

    As posted earlier, Teacher Unions are extremely powerful and they back the Liberals 100%.

    I just resigned a job as Finance Director for a Head Start Program. We spent over $2,000,000 to baby sit 120 kids for the year. That is nearly $17,000.00 a year, per kid, just so mom can stay home and watch The View and Oprah. All studies show that a Head Start trained child, by second grade, is no further along than a child who attended no pre school. Talk about a waste of Billions of dollars annually!

    By the way, I love right wing talk radio. It has entertainment value and some truth to it. It sure beats listening to Keith Olberman, Chris Matthews or Cooper Anderson. Funny thing, anyone that criticizes right wing talk radio, when I ask if they have ever actually sat down and listened to a complete show from Rush, Laura, Sean or Glenn, they say "No, I don't have to!" Talk about ignorance. They get their opinion of Right Wing Talk Radio from The View, CNN, MSNBC, Media Matters, MoveOn.org and Nancy Pelosi.

  • Rehabber · Denver, CO · Member since 2010 · 79 posts · 20 votes
    15y

    That about covers it.

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