Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I have a different thread about whether or not Realtors are worth their commission anymore and TWICE during the discourse agents compared themselves to doctors. I have also seen this posted on various other threads over the last several months.
Is this some sort of training that agents get during licensing or some such?
Yes, many marketing gurus teach professionals that they should run their businesses like doctors... work by appt only, create scarcity, educate yourself, hold various designations, all in the hope of being perceived as a sought after expert. Its good advice but most agents will not do what it actually takes to become so sought after. They'll do a one or more of the items but not all. Anyway, most states require only 40 - 65 hrs of education to become licenses and most people are very aware of that fact. So the attempt to present themselves along the same lines as a doctor can easily misfire. The best advice for agents is to become extremely proficient at one area... it may be working with investors (many agents say they are experts at it yet they don't own a single property), waterfront properties, 1st time home homebuyers.. etc. If your an agent, specialize!!!!
Yes, many marketing gurus teach professionals that they should run their businesses like doctors... work by appt only, create scarcity, educate yourself, hold various designations, all in the hope of being perceived as a sought after expert. Its good advice but most agents will not do what it actually takes to become so sought after. They'll do a one or more of the items but not all. Anyway, most states require only 40 - 65 hrs of education to become licenses and most people are very aware of that fact. So the attempt to present themselves along the same lines as a doctor can easily misfire. The best advice for agents is to become extremely proficient at one area... it may be working with investors (many agents say they are experts at it yet they don't own a single property), waterfront properties, 1st time home homebuyers.. etc. If your an agent, specialize!!!!
Bryan,
When the Realtor side of me comes up, I had to resort to comparing myself to a doctor, because no one believed me when I tried to compare to George Clooney!
Bill
Both do not know what they are doing - a doctor "practices medicine", while the realtor tries to "practice" in the field of real estate. After a lot of stumbling around they both get results - often with no effort on their part. I think it would be embarassing to compare with doctors. With all of the Trillions in research there has been NO major illnesses or diseases cured since the polio vaccine in the 1950's. There should be an accounting as to where all the money has went. I also read that the only reason that polio was cured was that a child of one of the doctors was ill so had to cure their own child. Lots of money goes to realtors to and for what? Anyone can do their job and they are no longer needed to control the middle ground!
Yes, many marketing gurus teach professionals that they should run their businesses like doctors... work by appt only, create scarcity, educate yourself, hold various designations, all in the hope of being perceived as a sought after expert. Its good advice but most agents will not do what it actually takes to become so sought after. They'll do a one or more of the items but not all. Anyway, most states require only 40 - 65 hrs of education to become licenses and most people are very aware of that fact. So the attempt to present themselves along the same lines as a doctor can easily misfire. The best advice for agents is to become extremely proficient at one area... it may be working with investors (many agents say they are experts at it yet they don't own a single property), waterfront properties, 1st time home homebuyers.. etc. If your an agent, specialize!!!!
But you are Borg resistance is futile sorry couldn't' resist :mrgreen:
These days agents have lot of designations though few of them mean much. Often it only takes a short class to get a designation. A real estate license only requires 90 hours of courses which certainly doesn't compare to what is required for a doctor.
I think one can get a good basic education buy getting a real estate license.
I think the real value that some real estate agents can provide is the years of experience working on many types of transactions or working the same type of transactions many times. An investor friendly real estate agent that has honed there skills in this area could be of value.
I agree with Charles. The value is in the experience. When I had surgery on my back many years ago, I asked the surgeon how many of that type surgeries had he done and if I had not gotten the correct answer and if he had not been recommended by a trusted orthopedic surgeon, he would not have cut on me! Same with a Realtor….experience and competence is what counts. In this analogy, Realtors and surgeons can be compared to each other!
BTW Bryan, I think you may need an eye exam! I’ll do it for free, but I’m not too good at it!
Bill
Mark you could be right. Education is a good thing, but experience and application are far more important. I'm reminded of a number of highly successful people that had little or no formal education.
Education is not just the formal education you receive in a school either. The school of hard knocks can provide a great education as well. Good connections and learning from the experience of others can be much better than a formal education.
Speaking as an agent and an investor, I know that agents get taught many ways to "justify" their commission and in addition they are regulated by the state to adhere to certain standards. However, I see a lot of agents develop a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to making deals happen and serving clients. Agents are taught that they have a fiduciary duty much like an attorney to act in the best interest of the client they represent. So in the agent's case, getting the sellers highest possible price at most favorable terms, or getting buyers into the homes at lowest possible price etc. is of top priority, sometimes to the detriment of everything else.
There are many good agents are out there, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by other agents who don't know what they're doing, don't care, or too experienced to learn anything new. Many regular agents who have been in the business are having trouble adjusting to the changing times. They do themselves a disservice when they can't see the truth about themselves and their industry.
I personally think the doctor analogy is ridiculous and laughable. I never spent 10 years in school, go through 2-4 years of internship, rack up 6-figure student loans and pay millions in malpractice insurance to become a real estate agent. Why would I pretend I'm of similar stature of someone who did. Ego is a big part but most had been taught to think this way by their brokers. If you go to ActiveRain and read these agent blogs you will see they have plenty of similar attitude. We are salespeople, for crying out loud.
I just had another agent kill a deal because she balked at my seller's request to meet the buyers, calling him unethical and ignorant. My seller is a successful investor and he probably makes more money than she ever did in 7 years as an agent. But hey, she's supposed to be superior because of her real estate license.
Can an agent be "worth" their commission? All real estate commission (at least in NJ) is negotiable. Consumer choice and the free market should dictate what an agent is worth, and let the agents prove their worth by performance, not an entitlement mentality.
Illusions of granduer. A three week RE course compared to 8 to 10 (even more) years of college and a couple years of internship.
That's not ego, it's delusional!
Lily made a lot of good points, and I have a few points to add myself.
Most agents you meet are full of it. I say this not to be self-loathing, self-deprecating, or to try to gain the respect of the investor community. I probably won't do deals with the majority of the people on this site, and I know that, and it's OK, because I'm here to learn.
I say this because it's true. Many agents will promise you the world to get the listing, and then you'll both sit their awkwardly as the property doesn't sell. This may create a "presence" for the agent by putting a lot of signs up, but it doesn't do anything for you as a seller. Similarly, a buyer's agent may brand himself as "Investor Friendly" but not have a clue. I'm probably guilty of this myself, not having had a clue about the 50% rule, notes, or the true inner workings of the REO Broker Brotherhood.
I can say though that I'm willing to learn. I want to learn for me, but I want to learn for you too. If an investor and I are on the same page, and I can act as a resource for them, that's awesome. But not because I'm a "doctor", not because I'm entitled to anything, and not because of any of the BS designations out there (which, btw, I'm happy to say I have none of).
As far as creating scarcity, I think that's the dumbest thing I could ever do. You want to buy or sell real estate? Sweet. Let's talk. Let me do my best to understand your goals, wants and needs and then apply my skills to fulfill them. Nothing special there, and nothing that I feel the need to keep from any of my clients. If you'd rather spend your time combing the MLS for deals or developing relationships with REO brokers, divorce attorneys, lenders and all of the other agents out there, be my guest. But you'll probably get fired from your day job, if you have one. Maybe you want to be a full time investor. That's cool too. If I'm not useful to you, you never have to use me, and I doubt I'd want to work with you much anyway. Not because I'm trying to create scarcity, but because I don't particularly enjoy making money without also creating value. Maybe that's a weird concept for some, but it's the truth for me.
So am I a doctor? Of course not. Do I pretend to be one or compare myself to one? Never have.
But am I worth my commission? You're damn right. Unless you disagree. That's fine too.
I have a different thread about whether or not Realtors are worth their commission anymore and TWICE during the discourse agents compared themselves to doctors. I have also seen this posted on various other threads over the last several months.
Is this some sort of training that agents get during licensing or some such?
Never heard this in all my years in this business.
Can't imagine what the analogy is except maybe both are "practicing" their professions.
I will agree it is mostly ego and that 90% of all real estate agents are paid way more than they are worth. Seems like it is the career to go to if you flunk out of being a server.
As for the education they get, I have been there and done that and the basic real estate licensing classes don't teach you half of what you really need to know. They don't teach you anything about running a real business, working with clients, returning phone calls, or being a good real estate agent.
As for them learning to be real estate investors, I think most are not qualified to tie their shoes, let alone decide if a property is a money maker.
Probably going to tick people off with this post, but it is the way I feel. I am married to great agent and I have come close to knocking a few heads together when she has dealing with moron agents.
LOL, Bryan! Thanks, I needed the laugh! I have heard it done, much to my gag reflex's dismay. I think it is really an attempt to impress upon the client how much they need the agent as in "you can't do this without me". My immediate reaction was "I can't possibly do ANYTHING with you".
Two faculty memebers from Stanford showed that agents do not bring much benefit to their clients. On the contrary, in order to secure a commission, the agent often convince the client to sell too cheap and too quickly. The client often takes the agent's suggestion, as the agent is more informed in this market.
I realize I'm way late here, but @Marian- yes, divorce attorneys. I've never had someone object to that relationship before... can you elaborate on why you thought that was worthy of a "Really?"
By no way real estate agents can be compared to doctors.
Few important points:
Education: It takes atleast 11 years minimum before you can independently treat patient. This is just education part, after that licensing and credentials take another 4-8 months. Not anybody can suddenly change careers and become doctors in few months however it is easier to become RE agents in a year or less.
Primarily Doctors are responsible for follow up of their patients and it is legal requirement, not so in case of real estate agents.
If something goes wrong with your health, doctors can be sued. Not so, in case of real estate agents - actually, never heard of real estate agent being sued for multimillion dollars and trust me I know few who make fortune actually far better income then doctors. (I think those who are successful as Real estate agents, bring good doctor's work ethics in their professional dealings.)
I have rarely seen doctor defaming or criticizing other doctors but I have seen so much of these among realtors just to get few hundreds or few thousand dollars commission.
By and large from a personal experience with realtors I can say that first they ask your limit about how much you can afford - then they will show houses which are close to your upper range. They would never show house which is cheaper and equally good because it may cost some cut in their commission. After showing 10 properties they expect you to make decision, otherwise they calm/cool down. Very few are really aware of real depth of their profession.
AS ALWAYS THERE IS EXCEPTION TO THIS AND THERE ARE EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD REAL ESTATE AGENTS.
Lax requirement to become RE agents and lucrative commission (after all house is high ticket item) have lured so many in this business just for money and not for their real interest.
I think it is really an attempt to impress upon the client how much they need the agent as in "you can't do this without me". My immediate reaction was "I can't possibly do ANYTHING with you".
Sounds like the last two agents I had to deal with. I hope by the time we finally closed they realized just how insignificant they were to THIS transaction.
Topical joke time!!!
Naturally, you can substitute just about any profession for "Realtor" and the joke still works!!! :wink: