Liberals and Democrats, your people have been in charge of every branch but the Judiciary for 2 years now. This was not going on during Bush. If I were you I would be making calls to my representatives because this is what people are going to remember your party bringing to this country.
They won't remember speeches, subsidies or how smart your leaders say they are. They'll remember that your party means their children will get strip searched and touched all over by complete strangers at the airport.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
This was not going on during Bush.
Wow, where have you been living for the past 9 years?
Perhaps you've heard some rumblings from the tens of millions of Americans complaining since 9/11/01 that our freedoms have been dwindling at the hands of a government that is trying to convince us that it's important for American citizens to give up some of their freedom in return for "security" (a sense of security to some, perhaps, but certainly no real security).
Unfortunately, too many people have been so scared of "the terrorists" for 9 years now that they've been happy to give up their rights -- or worse yet, haven't even realized they been doing it, as clearly you haven't realized it until now.
Who do you think was responsible for the action in the article you linked? It was a TSA agent. And it's been going on since the TSA took over airport security.
When do you think the TSA was appointed to take over airport security?
November 2001, I believe it was.
Just a coincidence that it was 2 months after 9/11? I don't think so. You can blame the government in power in 2001 for putting in place this ludicrous security mechanism that has done nothing to make us more secure.
Btw, prior to 9/11, it was very uncommon for any airport security agent to pat down a traveler. In fact, to do so before 9/11 without verbal permission from the traveler was considered assault and a security officer could have gotten arrested for it.
After 9/11, TSA agents were exempt from this assault law. Yup, in 2001, the government decided that government appointed security forces were allowed to assault citizens in the name of "security."
It's happened to kids, to old people, to people in wheelchairs, people of all races, ethnicities, religions, etc. And it's sickening.
What's more sickening is that our government back in 2001 starting raping our citizens of their rights and our current government is still not doing anything about it.
That said, I'm glad you've finally woken up to the reality of the fact that our rights as citizens have been under attack for 9 years now...
Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
I wonder if you would have cared enough to send this out if it was an arab kid? On Fox, they have said every muslim should be strip searched.
Do you know why this was done? Could there have been circumstances to warrant this? We don't know. Probably shouldn't jump to conclusions.
BTW if you think this is "strip searched" you haven't ever really been strip searched. This is taking a shirt off and being patted down.
I am happier to take my shirt off at the airport than to have my phone conversations listened to without my knowledge.
Obama probably hired a lawyer to tell him it is legal like W did with waterboarding. W did a good job of teaching us that the gov't must keep us safe regardless of what freedoms we have to give up. It is a slippery slope W put us on.
You can flame my liberal a$$ now but don't expect a response. I won't be revisiting this thread.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
This was not going on during Bush.
Wow, where have you been living for the past 9 years?
Perhaps you've heard some rumblings from the tens of millions of Americans complaining since 9/11/01 that our freedoms have been dwindling at the hands of a government that is trying to convince us that it's important for American citizens to give up some of their freedom in return for "security" (a sense of security to some, perhaps, but certainly no real security).
Unfortunately, too many people have been so scared of "the terrorists" for 9 years now that they've been happy to give up their rights -- or worse yet, haven't even realized they been doing it, as clearly you haven't realized it until now.
Who do you think was responsible for the action in the article you linked? It was a TSA agent. And it's been going on since the TSA took over airport security.
When do you think the TSA was appointed to take over airport security?
November 2001, I believe it was.
Just a coincidence that it was 2 months after 9/11? I don't think so. You can blame the government in power in 2001 for putting in place this ludicrous security mechanism that has done nothing to make us more secure.
Btw, prior to 9/11, it was very uncommon for any airport security agent to pat down a traveler. In fact, to do so before 9/11 without verbal permission from the traveler was considered assault and a security officer could have gotten arrested for it.
After 9/11, TSA agents were exempt from this assault law. Yup, in 2001, the government decided that government appointed security forces were allowed to assault citizens in the name of "security."
It's happened to kids, to old people, to people in wheelchairs, people of all races, ethnicities, religions, etc. And it's sickening.
What's more sickening is that our government back in 2001 starting raping our citizens of their rights and our current government is still not doing anything about it.
That said, I'm glad you've finally woken up to the reality of the fact that our rights as citizens have been under attack for 9 years now...
Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
15y
Yeah, we are not flying any more. I have 2 boys and there is no way that is happening to them at 3 and 4 years old. Its going to take a lot of house flipping for a private jet!
Oh yeah, and the naked body scanner they have will save a naked image of you in their database. All while given you radiation as an added bonus!
Every day we are treated more and more like cattle. Don't blame Obama or Bush. Its not like a vote for either side will change the stripping of our rights, or constant increase in "security"
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Along with my post above, here are a few more facts to consider:
- Pilots have been complaining about the enhanced security they've had to go through for 9 years now, culminating in a couple pilots the past few weeks refusing to submit to these procedures anymore. Does it really make sense that we need to screen pilots for weapons? I'm pretty sure if a pilot wanted to take down a plane, he could do it in the cockpit with just his hands. Sheesh...
- If you don't submit to the new x-ray machines they have at many airports now, you *must* submit to a full pat-down; this includes having your genitals grabbed through your pants. If you try to leave after you've found out that these are your two choices, you can be fined $11,000 for not completing the security process.
- Here's an interesting fact: The x-ray machines that everyone is complaining about are sold by a company who's CEO is the former head of the TSA. Just another corrupt organization appointed after 9/11 to supposed "enhance security" by stealing our rights.
- If you think the ridiculous behavior of the TSA is new, think again. Here's an article from 2002 about complaints from women that TSA agents touched them inappropriately:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-90193139.html
- Did you know that supposedly Congress members are not subject to full security searches at airports? That's right -- the guy flying your plane can't get through security without being groped, but your politicians can. When do you think that rule was made? Hint: It wasn't recently.
- In Honolulu alone, 112 TSA agents have been fired for misconduct since 2002. I'm sure that's the current administration's fault, right?
It's sad that's it's taken some peole 9 years to wake up, but I guess better late than never!
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
If you've really been asleep for 9 years and don't believe me, maybe you'll believe another Libertarian who has been complaining about the TSA and airport security for 8 years now:
Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Thank you Marc, I just found that out myself. Should have known this was taken out of context to try to instill fear. Misinformation is the strategy. Works too.
Quote from the person who took the video "The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins."
Apparently dad was pissed off because the kid was acting up and not allowing the wand.
Quick everyone write their congressmen to tell them not to allow dad's to take their kid's shirt off.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
It doesn't sound like kids were strip searched in this instance either Tim. I guess you are going to expressly ignore that part of the thread to suit your agenda though...sounds quite reasonable.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
It doesn't sound like kids were strip searched in this instance either Tim. I guess you are going to expressly ignore that part of the thread to suit your agenda though...sounds quite reasonable.
I don't have to expressly ignore what I see with my own eyes when I see children forced to take off their clothes and having a stranger put his hands on their legs, inner thighs and butt.
It's unfathomable how people can defend the trauma this child is clearly being put through. :roll:
And to the Liberals and Democrats who keep shouting Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush.....YOU have been in charge of every branch outside of the Judiciary for two years. This is all you. This is your leadership. This is where two years of you in charge has led us to.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
What you expressly see halfway through. Marc has cleared this up quite nicely. As usual, your uber partisan thread is off base, misguided, and flat-out WRONG!
Flipper · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 973 posts · 679 votes
15y
I watched the video. The kid wasn't crying. Didn't really seem to be upset when the guy finished and his dad put his shirt back on him.
Sounds like the dad just couldn't control his kid and got mad at the kid.
I don't support increased government, but I understand why they're doing it. Every time something happens on an airplane, everyone whines and bitches that they weren't being protected. Now that they are being searched, they want to whine and ***** about their rights.
Kids have been used in terrorist attacks probably forever. I know at least as far back as Vietnam.
This may not be the best option, but what do you suggest?
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
What you expressly see halfway through. Marc has cleared this up quite nicely. As usual, your uber partisan thread is off base, misguided, and flat-out WRONG!
No. The father took the shirt off because he held his son's arms out for the TSA agent, but that wasn't good enough. Marc's explanation is missing that part.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Liberals and Democrats, one more thing. The current head of the TSA, John Pistole, was put there by your man Barrack Obama. He took this job in June of this year, 5 months ago. He brought the groping and body scanning. This is how Barrack Obama's TSA operates. It's 100% in your lap. A mere 5 months of Barrack Obama's man in charge of the TSA and you have this happening to children.....and you're attacking me? Seriously?
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
They took clothing off a child to search the child. It's on video tape. That is a strip search. It is the removal of clothing to search for weapons and/or contraband. How am I supposed to say I'm wrong and not seeing this?
BTW...I don't like the technology either and I don't really think it makes us much safer. I fly several times a month and don't get the impression that security does a particularly good job.
That doesn't detract from the fact that the boy was NOT strip searched. This thread is a shining example of how ridiculous the political debates are on this site. Nuts!
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
That doesn't detract from the fact that the boy was NOT strip searched.
Sorry, but it fits the legal definition of a strip search. The fact that the father participated doesn't change that. Stop and think for a second why the father's participation was allowed; it mitigates legal liability.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
They took clothing off a child to search the child. It's on video tape. That is a strip search.
While I don't condone most of the action of the TSA, regarding this specific incident, the important question is *WHO* demanded that the child take off his shirt.
If the TSA agent required that the child take off his shirt, then I would agree that this is a strip search.
If the *FATHER* forced his son to take off his shirt despite not being required to do so by the TSA agent, it's an absolutely ludicrous argument that the child was strip searched.
So, Tim, are you claiming you have seen video evidence that the TSA agent required the child to take off his shirt? If so, can you link to it (it's certainly not obvious from this video)?
Regardless, I'm glad you've finally realized what is going on in this country, despite it taking you 9 years. Hopefully this revelation will help give you a better perspective on why tens of millions of others have been complaining about losing their freedoms since 9/11, why tens of million citizens disapproved of the previous administration by the time they left office and why those same tens of millions are unhappy that things haven't changed with the current administration.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by J Scott:
So, Tim, are you claiming you have seen video evidence that the TSA agent required the child to take off his shirt? If so, can you link to it (it's certainly not obvious from this video)?
Comment section from the eyewitness who took the video: "The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn't end up being enough for the guy."
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by J Scott:
If the *FATHER* forced his son to take off his shirt despite not being required to do so by the TSA agent, it's an absolutely ludicrous argument that the child was strip searched.
I would be MEGA shocked if the TSA required the kid to take his clothes off. However, if they did I will certainly be man enough to admit that I am wrong and it WAS a strip search.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
Originally posted by J Scott:
So, Tim, are you claiming you have seen video evidence that the TSA agent required the child to take off his shirt? If so, can you link to it (it's certainly not obvious from this video)?
Comment section from the eyewitness who took the video: "The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn't end up being enough for the guy."
That doesn't clarify anything. How do you know what he means by "the guy."
Is "the guy" the eyewitness mentions the TSA agent? Or is "the guy" the father? How do you know?
If "the guy" is the father, clearly it was the father's decision to remove the shirt, and it wasn't an order by the TSA agent. And it wouldn't be a strip search (unless you want to argue it was the father that strip searched the boy).
On top of that, how do you know that the person commenting on the video is the person who actually took the video? And based on the fact that there was no audio in the video from the TSA agent, the father or the kid, what makes you think that the guy who took the video really knew what was going on other than what we could see as well?
As with most of these threads, you have formed an opinion based on limited facts, but when you are questioned on the facts, you dismiss the questions, as if the facts don't matter.
Perhaps the facts don't matter to you, but to most rational people, the facts are WAY more important than your opinion.
Again, do you have any FACTS to support the idea that the TSA demanded the child remove his shirt (other than an ambiguous video and an ambiguous statement from the comments section of a web page)?