40% loss in net worth in last 3 years

40% loss in net worth in last 3 years

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I'm sure many have heard the numbers recently that the median net worth of individuals in the United States has dropped 39% in the last three years. I'm just curious how BP members have fared during the same three-year period.

Most of the loss in net worth was caused due to the devaluation of real estate and the lost equity in people's personal residences. There are many on BP, including myself that have benefited from the lost equity in other people's homes. I'm sure there are members on BP that were at the other end of the spectrum where their net worth decreased because of lost value in a home or actual loss of a home completely.

This represents a tremendous amount of buying power loss of the individual. I would like to think that BP members, with the knowledge we have have not been have Ridge and don't fall into this same median loss of the country on the whole.

There might even be some members here on BP that were involved in both ends of the spectrum, having lost their home or value in their home but gone into the business of purchasing short sales or REO's.

I would be one that has been involved on both ends having seen values of existing properties decrease, but also taking advantage of buying undervalued properties. Just curious into other stories and situations of how we at BP compare with the rest of the country. Rich

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
14y

This reply isn't meant AT ALL to be political (I'm a big fan of capitalism, probably fall closer to the "rich" side than the "poor" side and don't begrudge anyone earning and keeping anything), so don't take it that way and let's try not to slip down a political rathole...

With that said, I think the statistic presented is completely meaningless...

This is one of those situations where talking about "averages" is very misleading. While the average median networth may have dropped considerably over the past few years, I'd be willing to bet that the average networth has not.

If you're rich, you probably lost a considerable amount of networth back in 2007-2008. That's because you likely owned a disproportionate amount of capital assets that devalued quickly and steeply doing that period. Certainly, most people in this country lost a lot during that time, but among the "average Joe," there were fewer capital assets owned and therefore less of a proportionate drop (though if your sole asset was your primary residence, you probably lost a lot as well).

Then, during the period from 2009-2012, if you were rich, you likely had some opportunities that were pretty unique in an historical sense -- real estate was as discounted as its ever been, taxes were low, fear was rampant, government policy favored them, etc. Certainly, business owners were being hit hard, but if they had cash reserves, they had an opportunity to build networth through acquisition of capital assets outside their business. Of course, if you're rich, you're more likely to be intelligent about how to acquire wealth/cash, so there's that advantage again (and again, that's what capitalism is all about, those that have the resources and know-how and work ethic will get ahead -- not a bad thing).

Unfortunately, during this same period, those with little cash reserves and no entrepreneurial spirit had essentially no opportunity to get ahead and the world around them in economic turmoil. Employment was down, real estate (for many, the only source of capital assets) was getting crushed, and credit was tight. If you were poor or middle class from 2009-2012, you probably lost a lot more than 40% of your networth.

So, here we are now. The rich have for-the-most-part recovered or positioned themselves to recover from their losses from 2007-2008 (if they were smart), the ultra-rich have gotten ultra-richer or positioned themselves to get ultra-richer (again, if they were smart), and the poor (and even many middle-class) are now in a holding pattern waiting to see what happens around them.

The 40% drop in median networth may be a correct figure, but it's certainly not representative of what happened on the ends of the spectrum -- many lost everything and many increased their wealth considerably (or have positioned themselves to do so).

Btw, I'm guessing that many here on BP were smart enough to at least tread water for the past few years, or if they did lose a fair amount, they were smart enough to figure out how to recover or position themselves to recover.

Now feel free to proceed to beat me up... :)

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  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    JScott- Hopefully no beat downs coming. I think your main point was pretty good. In this thread, I also had another post explaining the drop in median income, increase of people not saving ANYTHING and peoples' income has dropped MORE since recession ended than during it.

    A drop in median income is a double whammy-less income and higher prices due to dollar decreasing in value. Less people saving makes things worse if we aren't over the hump and have any sort of double dip.

    Nothing political and now bashing! Hope all is well. Rich

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    14y

    Great post Jason, i would tend to agree. No different than other major financial incidents in this country, the rich and ultra rich have all the opportunities whereas the poor lack them. This is why major transfers of wealth occur during major happenings in the financial market.
    The statistics not meaning much as you mentioned may in fact be true. I do know one thing for sure, those who see, understand, and have the capabilities of taking action in the wake of these opportunities set themselves up to increase their wealth rather than lose it. (Those that are smart enough like you stated)

  • Rental Property Investor · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 66 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    40% - Yeah, that's right. I have been working as hard as anything and am straight at zero. I am positioned for growth but there has been no slacking here. What do you call carrying costs for life, not just rehabs :)?
    I know how to buy low and sell high - I just don't have much capital.
    We have moved from an area of over 50% unemployment in computer science R&D in our town of South Dakota to a high cost of living area near the nation's capital. I have five kids.
    If I hadn't paid off the second mortgage with the proceeds of my previous home's sale, I'd have other options. I tried three times in 14 months to qualify for the gov't sponsored home mortgage program, unsuccessfully. The RE bubble peaked about a month before we bought our home but we weren't underwater until this spring, so we didn't qualify. It took five years of uninterrupted income to be able to afford life AND refinance an interest-only loan.
    Meanwhile my food costs have gone up about 40%. I spend double on food what I spent in 2005 and that's not just hungry kids. My food bill is as high as my mortgage sometimes.
    And what do you do with kids? They don't stop growing. Or needing things. I still wouldn't have done anything differently because my kids have had security in living in one place.
    But it has turned out poorly for some and they will never recover in the time frame in which their children need options. I have never seen as much personal heartache as I have in the last 3-4 years. And it's hard to get a job.
    Thanks for asking what's up.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    Kerry,
    Thanks for sharing your story. I know there are a lot more out there in your same situation. I have 6 grown kids and I worry about their financial footings. One of my kids pays as much on Child care as their mortgage per month! Crazy. Good luck and take it day to day. Rich

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Conroe, TX · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 43 votes
    14y

    Starting to see some daylight!

    My area has taken between a 5 - 9% drop in value based on 2011 assessment. The Houston, Tx. market (in my opinion), is positioned to be one of the first markets to rebound.

    My view is that it takes three main ingredients for a vital market: Plenty of inventory, qualified buyers, and access to cash. There appears to be a growing migration to Houston and it's surrounding areas attracting a wide range of mattress money clients. Also, owners are obtaining better rates of return on low risk owner financed transactions than available in other instruments.
    http://evolucioncreativemarketing.com/wealthy-hispanics-in-the-woodlands/

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    14y

    Kerry M. - Nobody said life was easy, thanks for sharing your story. A bright spot of hope is that you are here on BP, a great place to assist you in both education and your network. Keep in mind that opportunities are out there right now, don't let the fact that you do not have your own capital to stop you. I started with no capital either and used OPM (other people's money). After I made my first paycheck, I had some capital to throw at the next deal and so on.

    Take it one step at a time.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Hattiesburg, MS · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 141 votes
    14y

    It's been some blood shed by the larger investors in my market who over leveraged prior to the slow down... Wouldn't really call it a crash, but a major slowdown with DOM increasing drastically. Thus leading to carrying cost & negative equity hurting some very successful investors...

    I personally was fortunate to not have anything other than a personal residence prior to 2008...

    I purchased slightly below market value in 2007 and I would say I'm about even based on recent comps... Not that it matters.. A home is a alternative to renting with tax benefits... Home values don't mean anything as long as people arent having to move or they panic and sell....

    The market is definitely turning in a positive direction... Nice well cared for homes are selling and the market as a whole is kinda turning into a sellers market.

    I've been able to grow my net worth exponentially, but that's easy when your starting with beans....

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Groveland, FL · Member since 2012 · 504 posts · 395 votes
    14y

    I started buying Central Florida properties wholesale, for others, about two years ago.
    Most were around 30-40 cents on the dollar.
    Over the past two years, I have bought over 110 houses - 68 last year alone.
    The clients I purchased for are seeing 100% returns now. Properties I bought for them 18 months ago are now double in price. That is because we bought right.
    The method I used has become obsolete. I am now using a new method.
    My point is this: The market is dynamic, and it changes from city to city.
    In my opinion, you must constantly watch the market, and be ready to change immediately. You must look at change as opportunity - never threat.
    Right now, I see Central Florida price increases in all the cities where I buy. This doesn't mean it isn't time to buy. It is simply time to be more careful in what you buy. Don't expect you can buy as you have bought before.
    We have seen a very easy buying period, for two years, in Central Florida.
    We are seeing growing values, largely affected by foreign money.
    This is the time to change your strategy, accept change, and move fast.
    My opinion...

  • Rental Property Investor · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 66 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    Thanks Rich and Will. Biggerpockets has been a lifesaver. At several junctions now it was the difference between losing confidence and being stuck and keeping on. Research I can do, especially with resources like this. Thanks everyone.

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