Which Ohio City is good for Cash flow relative to Quality

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Which Ohio City is good for Cash flow relative to Quality

Toks Akindele
Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 18 votes

I am an OOS investor looking at Ohio (for next year) and I have narrowed my opinions to Cincinnati, Dayton and Toledo. If there is another City I should have on my list, let me know. I am interested in properties in the $30K-$70K range for SF and less than $375K for MF. What I am looking for is Cash Flowing properties and if appreciation happens, then that is a bonus (my focus is good cash flow properties). Here are my questions:

1)Which of these 3 cities will cash flow the best relative to Purchase price of property

2)I was told that neighborhood quality in Cincinnati changes block by block which will require more local knowledge than I have...which of these cities has the best broad range/spread of quality neighborhoods (interested in B and C type properties)

3)If you know good Realtors in these cities who are OOS investor friendly, please provide info

4)If you know good Property Managers, please provide info

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Lee RipmaPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5y

@Fawaz Hasnain

So I think you can be successful in any market in RE with the right strategy. My personal strategy for rentals is very specific - buy value-add MF below replacement cost (what it costs for new construction) in areas with growing population in MSAs with populations greater than 150k within 50 miles of a major airport. Pretty darn specific right? So the markets you mentioned don't work for MY strategy. Doesn't mean they don't work for YOUR strategy. Indianapolis just doesn't have the growth. I really want to buy in areas that are growing. Lots of people want cash flow and think cash flow comes first. Well cash flow isn't much of a return driver so I'm more focused on forcing appreciation in growing areas. If you listen to my podcast I talk about how cash flow is more of a hedge and isn't much of contributor to overall ROI. Different strokes for different folks but watch out for the cash flow kool-aid!

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  • Steven Foster Wilson
    Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    @Toks Akindele you get what you pay for. If you're looking to invest 30k into a tertiary market, don't expect much in return.

    However if you want to invest just a little more in a solid secondary market like Columbus, you will see huge appreciation and awesome CF.

    My two properties here have a net cash flow of more than $1,500 and over $100k in appreciation!

    2Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Toks Akindele:

    I am an OOS investor looking at Ohio (for next year) and I have narrowed my opinions to Cincinnati, Dayton and Toledo. If there is another City I should have on my list, let me know. I am interested in properties in the $30K-$70K range for SF and less than $375K for MF. What I am looking for is Cash Flowing properties and if appreciation happens, then that is a bonus (my focus is good cash flow properties). Here are my questions:

    1)Which of these 3 cities will cash flow the best relative to Purchase price of property

    2)I was told that neighborhood quality in Cincinnati changes block by block which will require more local knowledge than I have...which of these cities has the best broad range/spread of quality neighborhoods (interested in B and C type properties)

    3)If you know good Realtors in these cities who are OOS investor friendly, please provide info

    4)If you know good Property Managers, please provide info

     Why not Columbus, Ohio?

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    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Toledo has very good cash flow. Try LaPlante real estate they can help you through the whole process with buying, make ready renovations, and property management. @Mike Mocek works there.

    3Reply
  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Toks Akindele

    So I do a lot of research on growing affordable areas. Columbus is the only city in Ohio I would buy in.

    Podcast Guest on Show #373
    5Reply
  • Gary David
    Rental Property Investor · Greater Cincinnati Ohio Area · Member since 2020 · 33 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @Toks I am in the Cincinnati area if you need any help with what Good vs Bad areas in the Cincy market  let me know  It also depends on the class of property you are looking at

    2Reply
  • Toks Akindele
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 18 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Toks Akindele:

    I am an OOS investor looking at Ohio (for next year) and I have narrowed my opinions to Cincinnati, Dayton and Toledo. If there is another City I should have on my list, let me know. I am interested in properties in the $30K-$70K range for SF and less than $375K for MF. What I am looking for is Cash Flowing properties and if appreciation happens, then that is a bonus (my focus is good cash flow properties). Here are my questions:

    1)Which of these 3 cities will cash flow the best relative to Purchase price of property

    2)I was told that neighborhood quality in Cincinnati changes block by block which will require more local knowledge than I have...which of these cities has the best broad range/spread of quality neighborhoods (interested in B and C type properties)

    3)If you know good Realtors in these cities who are OOS investor friendly, please provide info

    4)If you know good Property Managers, please provide info

     Why not Columbus, Ohio?

    A few people have also mentioned Columbus, OH ..that just slipped my mind. I will look into it. Thanks for the opinion

    1Reply
  • Fawaz Hasnain
    New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    5y

    @Lee Ripma, I live in neighboring Indiana. What are your thoughts on Indianapolis vs markets like Fort wayne vs Evansville.  Currently live in Indianapolis but have roots in FW.  Thanks!

    1Reply
  • Mike Mocek
    Property Manager / Licensed Realtor · Toledo/Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 244 posts · 262 votes
    5y

    Thanks for the shout out @Michael P!!

    @Toks Akindele. When reviewing Toledo properties you will discover that the Toledo market is different from all others, not to mention, extremely low purchase prices on fixer uppers as compared to their retail value, Toledo is full of promises. The need for quality residential and commercial space has become astonishing, making the right investment in Toledo is sometimes not easy with so many different projects to choose from. Whether it is Single-Family homes, Multi-Family homes, mixed use or any other type of property, with such a high demand in Toledo, it rarely stays on the market for a great length of time.

    Some reasons why so many people are flocking to invest in this cosmopolitan community would be:

    - Low inflation

    - One of the safest cities in Ohio

    - Low cost of living

    - Growing metropolitan

    Toledo Investment Properties provide investors with a unique comprehensive platform that makes Toledo a logical place to invest in. The area is always expanding the business district as well as downtown, from Access to low cost regional talent, competitive real estate cost, strong work ethics and excellent facilities for sports, shopping, leisure and healthcare. All-In-All, Toledo Means Business!

    I would be more than happy to discuss options of the Toledo Market and answer any questions you may have pertaining to purchasing, selling and property management.

    5Reply
  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Fawaz Hasnain

    So I think you can be successful in any market in RE with the right strategy. My personal strategy for rentals is very specific - buy value-add MF below replacement cost (what it costs for new construction) in areas with growing population in MSAs with populations greater than 150k within 50 miles of a major airport. Pretty darn specific right? So the markets you mentioned don't work for MY strategy. Doesn't mean they don't work for YOUR strategy. Indianapolis just doesn't have the growth. I really want to buy in areas that are growing. Lots of people want cash flow and think cash flow comes first. Well cash flow isn't much of a return driver so I'm more focused on forcing appreciation in growing areas. If you listen to my podcast I talk about how cash flow is more of a hedge and isn't much of contributor to overall ROI. Different strokes for different folks but watch out for the cash flow kool-aid!

    Podcast Guest on Show #373
    7Reply
  • Alex Heidenreich
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2020 · 55 posts · 64 votes
    5y

    I'm currently investing in Columbus, because I live here, but it does seem like there is a decent amount of competition. If I start having trouble finding deals here, I plan to start buying in Cincinnati. Both metros currently have very hot job markets. 

    2Reply
  • Toks Akindele
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 18 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Alex Heidenreich:

    I'm currently investing in Columbus, because I live here, but it does seem like there is a decent amount of competition. If I start having trouble finding deals here, I plan to start buying in Cincinnati. Both metros currently have very hot job markets. 

    Thanks for that very balanced opinion

    0Reply
  • Fawaz Hasnain
    New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    5y

    @Lee Ripma Thanks for the insightful post!

    1Reply
  • Leo F.
    Developer · New York City & L.I. · Member since 2013 · 79 posts · 29 votes
    5y

    Columbus is very good, but and expensive market in B areas

    1Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Leo F.:

    Columbus is very good, but and expensive market in B areas

     You need to spend money to make money. Columbus, Ohio is a prime example.

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    2Reply
  • Leo F.
    Developer · New York City & L.I. · Member since 2013 · 79 posts · 29 votes
    5y

    @Remington ly

    @Remington Lyman

    Yes agree!  My market is one of the most expensive in America.  Love spending money to make money, just don't like spending it to spend it on over priced assets in a super competive tight market anywhere. Anyone can be successful in any market, just need to be patient or have the connections to secure good deals.  

    3Reply
  • Michael MagnoBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Wadsworth, OH · Member since 2017 · 234 posts · 168 votes
    5y

    @Toks Akindele

    Cleveland and Akron metro areas are somewhere else you should look into.

    2Reply
  • Mia G.
    Property Manager · Aurora, IL · Member since 2018 · 45 posts · 34 votes
    5y

    @Michael Magno I've always wondered how Cleveland is for investors. Do you have property there?

    1Reply
  • Jc M.
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
    5y

    @Toks Akindele also an OOS investor looking to do the same. Looked up and down Ohio and Columbus is in first position for the growth. However, it seems like other OH cities may see decades-long population decline turn around. Been eyeballing the three you mentioned plus Cleveland.

    2Reply
  • Adam Melon
    Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 19 votes
    5y

    @Lee Ripma Solid take on the appreciation vs cashflow debate. Really boils down to ones goals. If someone wants to venture into real estate full time and quit their W2 job, I'd argue that in the beginning, cashflow is the necessary play. I agree that long term appreciation pays more in the end and thats where I want all my investments to be once I've created enough cashflow to exit W2 life(in my case, tax accountant).

    Financial situation also plays a role as well. If youre already financially free, appreciation is the only angle one should be concerned with.

    1Reply
  • Michael MagnoBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Wadsworth, OH · Member since 2017 · 234 posts · 168 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mia G.:

    @Michael Magno I've always wondered how Cleveland is for investors. Do you have property there?

     I am a Realtor and Investor in the market. I live about 45 minutes south of Cleveland in the suburbs, so I do not own any rentals in Cleveland proper. My rentals are in Akron area. However, I have several out of state clients that are heavily invested in the West Side of Cleveland. I’m currently under contract on 4 duplexes and 1 triplex for a client out of San Diego. 

    0Reply
  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Adam Melon

    I largely agree with you. However, I think if you buy in the right areas you can have both cashflow AND equity/appreciation. I don't debate cash flow vs. appreciation. I'm focused on building equity in my properties AND having cash flow, but given the choice between equity and cash flow I chose equity. The thing about equity is that it is very easy to turn equity into cash flow. If you have 1M then you can easily get 10% cash on cash in a variety of ways (buying rentals, private lending, buying into funds). Easy to get 100k/year in cash flow with a year with 1M. If you have less than 1M, as so many folks looking to get out of their W2 do, then you can take money and buy cash flow OR you can take money and build equity. I would build equity FIRST, then convert that to cash flow, then you'll have the cash you need to leave your job. How do I know that works? I DID IT. 

    If you ask me there are actually 6 wealth generators of RE, ranked from least impact to most impact: 

    1. cash flow

    2. principal pay down 

    3. market appreciation 

    4. tax benefits

    5. forced appreciation 

    6. time freedom 

    Time freedom is what allows you to stop trading time for money and go out and make money doing something besides working for someone else. Start a company, sell RE, etc. 

    Podcast Guest on Show #373
    2Reply
  • Mark Frattini
    Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 338 posts · 176 votes
    5y

    @Toks Akindele

    Columbus is a great city to invest in. I have a couple duplexes there. I know a great agent in Columbus that does lots of multifamily deals and works with out of state investors. Just reach out and I will give you his contact info.

    3Reply
  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    @Toks Akindele I'm no expert on the Ohio markets but if I was considering investing there, my choice would be Columbus. Other markets like Cleveland and Dayton cash flow but Comumbus has better economic and demographic trends like population and job growth.

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mia G.:

    @Michael Magno I've always wondered how Cleveland is for investors. Do you have property there?

     This should give you a good idea what to expect with rentals in Cleveland. -> The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods.

    1Reply
  • Toks Akindele
    OP
    Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 18 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Michael Magno:

    @Toks Akindele

    Cleveland and Akron metro areas are somewhere else you should look into.

    Thank you Michael...Cleveland definitely looked promising

    0Reply
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