Is Housing a Human RIGHT? Entitled to property?

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Is Housing a Human RIGHT? Entitled to property?

Susan O.
Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes

https://www.facebook.com/events/1665406613716274/

This is entitlement. Us landlord and investors has to pay a bank mortgage to keep a house, if they don't they pay monthly we lose the house.

Same should go for any person.

But do certain people deserve to have a house? 

Who will pay for these houses?  Or should they get to live at reduced rent at YOUR house?

Portland Oregon Tenants Group- 

https://www.facebook.com/portlandtenantsunited/

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Patrick Philip
FL · Member since 2016 · 912 posts · 107 votes
9y

You can't like OWN a house, dude. The house belongs to the Earth. You just don't get it.

I'm gonna bring 15 of my hippie friends and we're gonna get super stoned in your house, man. You should join us. My best friends names are Dragon, Freedom, and Rabbit.

It's not about the rent, it's about the LOVE. You gotta expand your mind.

(I'm just kidding. I hate hippies.)

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  • Shawn Coverdell
    Investor · Clatskanie, OR · Member since 2014 · 212 posts · 233 votes
    9y

    1031 exchange out of those properties. Don't waste energy on anger. Portland has a high population of liberal stoners. Laws will always lean towards favoring that group to keep votes flowing. Not worth the fight. Let it take it's course. Once it collapses, maybe pick up some of the foreclosures. Until then it's full speed to ruin. 

    8Reply
  • Patrick Philip
    FL · Member since 2016 · 912 posts · 107 votes
    9y

    You can't like OWN a house, dude. The house belongs to the Earth. You just don't get it.

    I'm gonna bring 15 of my hippie friends and we're gonna get super stoned in your house, man. You should join us. My best friends names are Dragon, Freedom, and Rabbit.

    It's not about the rent, it's about the LOVE. You gotta expand your mind.

    (I'm just kidding. I hate hippies.)

    16Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Facebook page appears to have been active for a week or two in February 2016. That is a year ago. As expected the movement lasted less than a month. Good luck getting homeless and low income renters to organize and rise up. If they could organize, then they would have better jobs. Pay them to be there and give them a ride and MAYBE some people will show as long as it isn't early in the morning. Yes some bleeding hearts will try to pass pro-tenant legislation, but don't expect an uprising. Don't get me wrong, the way rents have risen it is becoming difficult for low income people, but the landlord should be incentivized to help, not called a slum lord and demonized. I am a supporter of low income housing in partnership with the private sector. Low interest loans or grants can help make it profitable for landlords.
    3Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock  city of Portland has passed some tough laws.

    any apartment now over 20 units that is build must have 20% for low income.

    so all that did is have developers apply and receive 7000  that's SEVEN THOUSAND doors IE permits for developments for 7000 apartment doors that don't include this rule  it was all done Q 4 2016.

    new law went into effect Q 1 2017 take a guess how many doors are being applied for in the entire quarter.... 175 that's it.. in our region we build about 10 k housing units a year about 60% SFR rest multi... building new buildings in the city of Portland will come to a trickle and there will be NO subsidized apartment units like the politico's hoped for.

    PDX also just had another measure that was being voted on this week.

    I have no dog in the hunt as I am strictly a value add guy and builder. I have no rentals. and no desire for rentals.. LOL

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  • Susan O.
    OP
    Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    Facebook page appears to have been active for a week or two in February 2016. That is a year ago. As expected the movement lasted less than a month. Good luck getting homeless and low income renters to organize and rise up. If they could organize, then they would have better jobs. Pay them to be there and give them a ride and MAYBE some people will show as long as it isn't early in the morning. Yes some bleeding hearts will try to pass pro-tenant legislation, but don't expect an uprising.

    Don't get me wrong, the way rents have risen it is becoming difficult for low income people, but the landlord should be incentivized to help, not called a slum lord and demonized.

    I am a supporter of low income housing in partnership with the private sector. Low interest loans or grants can help make it profitable for landlords.

    https://www.facebook.com/portlandtenantsunited/?hc...

    http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/...

    Just Cause Eviction = rent control

    https://www.facebook.com/PortlandISO/?ref=br_rs

    Rent Control Oregon

    https://www.planetizen.com/node/88793/rent-control...

    0Reply
  • Susan O.
    OP
    Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
    9y

    This is another big one

    https://www.planetizen.com/node/88793/rent-control...

    Urban planning:

    https://www.planetizen.com/node/90492/report-calif...

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Susan O.:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    Facebook page appears to have been active for a week or two in February 2016. That is a year ago. As expected the movement lasted less than a month. Good luck getting homeless and low income renters to organize and rise up. If they could organize, then they would have better jobs. Pay them to be there and give them a ride and MAYBE some people will show as long as it isn't early in the morning. Yes some bleeding hearts will try to pass pro-tenant legislation, but don't expect an uprising.

    Don't get me wrong, the way rents have risen it is becoming difficult for low income people, but the landlord should be incentivized to help, not called a slum lord and demonized.

    I am a supporter of low income housing in partnership with the private sector. Low interest loans or grants can help make it profitable for landlords.

    https://www.facebook.com/portlandtenantsunited/?hc...

    http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/...

    Just Cause Eviction = rent control

    https://www.facebook.com/PortlandISO/?ref=br_rs

    This is to be expected in a liberal area. President Obama summed up the logic in a speech, "If you have been successful, you didn't get that on your own." and goes on to say "if you have got a business, you didn't build that, someone else did". In the same speech he also laughed at the idea that being smart or hard work was the reason for your success.  

    Best advice I can give is move your investments to a more welcoming location. If you stay local, then join landlord groups and fund efforts to fight this. 

    0Reply
  • Susan O.
    OP
    Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
    9y

    Well these are also really good locations on West coast that are very desirable to a lot of people.  I think continuing to invest in these areas and actively fight these pushes is the way to go.

    There's a lot of opportunity here if they will just allow for it

    0Reply
  • David Zheng
    Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    You know it's funny because about 75% of my friends are ravers (as am I) so I see this complaint all the time. I have so many people asking if I take low credit, no job history, prior evictions, 10 dogs, hookah hangouts, etc. sorry, nope all full.

    However, I do my primary communication with tenants on facebook and they all love the fact that I rave and still keep such an ambitious lifestyle.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @David Zheng  what does RAVE mean ?

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  • Shawn Coverdell
    Investor · Clatskanie, OR · Member since 2014 · 212 posts · 233 votes
    9y

    I think it means were old Jay. We are in for some VERY interesting times just ahead. 

    0Reply
  • Sarah D.
    San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs Do you expect a lot of <20 unit building to be built to skirt the law?

    I hate that high rent gets lumped in with homelessness, which is a real issue and has bigger causes than high demand/low supply.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Sarah D.  its complicated in Oregon.. you have minimum density requirements.. as in if you can't meet the minimum density you can't build at all.

    but I can see if someone has the choice of 24 units.. they just build 20.

    there are State bonds to pay for low income housing.. I was working on a 120 unit one in Lincoln city a few years back.. it did not pencil at the time.. But this is why we have state and city govmit.. if they want to subsidize housing they have mechinisims to do that.

    I have worked with many of these Habit  and others.. issue comes in PDX is building costs are so high now there Is no way you can build low income housing unless govmit writes super cheap interest rate bonds  forgives System development charges etc etc.. and this area does that.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Sarah D.  this issue is Multi story apartmetns with elevators are running right at 400 dollars a foot to build all in.

    1000 sq ft apartment  400,000   who is going to build those and rent them for 1,200.... NOBODY is who.. so this bill is just a none starter.. or if they do.. the others in the building will have to pay even higher rate .. then they risk not getting tennats for those.. And of course those that can afford high rents and such usually do not want to live in a low income housing project.. I mean that's the reality.

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  • Sarah D.
    San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs Completely agree with your points on building costs and tenant mix.  It doesn't make sense to try to have low income apts in a A+ multi.  Didn't know about the density factor, that's why I wondered if people would just skirt the law by building smaller buildings.

    Is anyone building low income housing with those gov't incentives?  How do they make it work?

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Sarah D.  they are building it.. one just opened in PDX last week.

    they do it in Oregon with State backed long term bonds at very low rates.. although rates are low from banks now as well.

    Plus you get tax credits that you can then sell to banks and others.. its a whole NICHE 

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  • Fred Winer
    Vendor · loganville, GA · Member since 2017 · 54 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    I would suggest several reasons for non-attention. One is that, to a large extent, the fact that one-third of the nation still is ill-housed is a hidden problem. Lack of affordability - our number-one problem - and its broader implications on poor people's lives is not something the fortunate among us experience or even know about. Spatially, too, the rise of gated communities, sprawl and the extreme residential segregation by class and race keep those on top from knowing much about those on the bottom - a form of "American Apartheid," as Douglas Massey and Nancy Denton's 1993 study so aptly put it.

    Race is its own barrier. The creation of a true Right to Housing bumps squarely against issues of location and access. Who is to live near whom, go to school with whom? Americans simply don't want to acknowledge the workings and vast impact of structural racism, let alone individual racist attitudes and behavior. How to deal with that confounds us. But unless and until we face that problem, it will inhibit serious movement toward providing all Americans - black, brown, yellow, white and all the skin color mixtures in between - with this basic need and right.

    Cost is possibly another barrier. To provide every American household with decent, affordable housing, given the large and widening gap between incomes and housing costs, will require vastly more government subsidies than we now devote to housing - the exact amount of course depends on what kinds of programs, what systems of financing, ownership, development and management we choose (the more market-oriented, the larger the cost; the more we create a social housing sector, the smaller the cost), but think along the lines of $80-100 billion annually. Maybe it would be an easier sell if we make clear the costs of having one-third of a nation ill-housed - and explain how eliminating those costs greatly reduces the bill. And it may be an easier sell if we drive home the point that upper-income taxpayers already get subsidies of that order via the tax system. Not that the society can't afford this: look how easily we come up with similar amounts to bail out savings and loans, make war, give massive tax breaks to the wealthy. It's all a matter of political will.

    So how do we get from here to there, how is that political will created?
    No simple, quick answers here, but a few ending thoughts.

    We need to make politicians and candidates - for local, state and federal offices - speak to the housing problem and commit to effective ameliorative programs. And that in turn requires grassroots pressure.

    We need to emphasize housing's links to problems in the areas of health, education, income support, food, crime, employment, immigration, economic and community development. In doing so, we will create coalitions of social justice activists whose power will grow exponentially.

    Selective litigation may help as well. There are examples of social justice gains via lawsuits in other areas - ending legally sanctioned segregation in public schools, abolishing the poll tax, requiring due process hearings before government aid is terminated, facilitating receipt of welfare support by eliminating barriers based on interstate movement. The housing area is ripe for similar approaches, building on similar legal theories and laws governing public benefits, child welfare, mental health and other programs.

    We won't have a conservative/reactionary national administration forever, and the Congressional election results (in particular, having Maxine Waters as the incoming chair of the House subcommittee that deals with housing matters, Jack Reed or Chuck Schemer as her Senate counterpart) are a hopeful sign. It's time to think seriously about mounting a public and political campaign to make decent, affordable housing a right for all Americans. 

    Just a little research......

    1Reply
  • Stanley Parsley
    Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2015 · 409 posts · 214 votes
    9y

    this is awesome another area that will be full of foreclosures in the next 2-3 years

    ill make sure I'm set up to buy all those beat up run down properties that the squatters destroy

    you can give a man a fish but that doesn't mean he will learn to fish- get it

    I hope the government dumbs em down so bad that they will all need my housing- its not going to be cheap

    enjoy

    4Reply
  • Jonathan Enriquez
    Alhambra, CA · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Not to get too political, but there definitely appears to be movements rising up all over this country in this mold. Probably stems from a huge sense of entitlement people feel nowadays. Politicians hungry for votes are playing right into their hands.

    I feel for the hardworking landlords in Portland.

    4Reply
  • David Faulkner
    Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    The truly ironic part is by all measures that I'm aware of, the tactics employed to attempt to "fix" the affordable housing problem not only have not worked, but could be argued that they have had the opposite affect and made things even less affordable in CA. The market forces of supply and demand tends to always win out in the long run ... doesn't matter if you are talking cans of soda pop, drugs, or housing. Ill conceived regulations as well as fear and greed may distort prices in the short term, but supply and demand move them in the long haul.

    2Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Fred Winer  hard to pull the race card in Oregon a state that is 93% Caucasian 6% Hispanic and 1% the rest ..  

    @David Faulkner  that was my point I did a thread on this new bill that was passed its call IZ zoning inclusionary zoning.. its a mess.

    rent control is in many of the major cities.. think NY  SF  Bezerkly etc.  and MHP in CA have had rent control for ever.. and in WA you can only raise rents once a year a certain amount in parks..

    So agree with you... it really becomes socialism  look at other countries that have all this government housing.. that is about the only fix I suppose..

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  • Randy Johnston
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Beaverton, OR · Member since 2014 · 335 posts · 149 votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock

    It's easy to cherry-pick a speech to make it sound bad, just to prove a point. But can you do the same thing with the entire speech, taken in context, and come to the same conclusion?

    3Reply
  • David Zheng
    Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs Just google "rave" and youll see haha....though I largely stay out of the illegal aspects of it.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @David Zheng  whats google ?

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  • Chinmay J.
    Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Patrick Philip:

    You can't like OWN a house, dude. The house belongs to the Earth. You just don't get it.

    I'm gonna bring 15 of my hippie friends and we're gonna get super stoned in your house, man. You should join us. My best friends names are Dragon, Freedom, and Rabbit.

    It's not about the rent, it's about the LOVE. You gotta expand your mind.

    (I'm just kidding. I hate hippies.)

     That made my day...LOL...

    0Reply
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