Too many off-market leads for me to actually execute on
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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesQuote from @Max Yuan:
I think we can agree finding good quality off-market leads is not easy. Even with PropStream and PropertyRadar, I'm usually not the first to reach out upon seeing the lead. As a result, I actually created my own frankenstein of an automation pipeline combining public notices, county data and skip tracing so I can get the leads directly from the source and act on them as soon as they are available. Now I am realizing there are too many of them for me to personally execute on, but I also hate the idea of wasted opportunities.
How does an experienced investors actually scale their operations besides just hiring VAs? Does anyone have any experience partnering with different RE teams local to the lead? How are those deals / incentives usually structured?
Thanks in advance!
15 Replies
- 2yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesYour title, “new to real estate” may offer a key. How many properties have you bought? I would suggest that perhaps all those deals you think you’ve uncovered aren’t really “deals”, just leads. Depending on the quality of the lead, how much work you’ve done with them, the exact source, the property in question, etc, they may range from worthless to worth a small referral fee. People don’t get paid a lot for providing a contact information on someone who say is in foreclosure. The heavy lifting is in WORKING the deal, not uncovering a potential deal. May be small referral fee IF the deal is consummated.
Quote from @Max Yuan:
I think we can agree finding good quality off-market leads is not easy. Even with PropStream and PropertyRadar, I'm usually not the first to reach out upon seeing the lead. As a result, I actually created my own frankenstein of an automation pipeline combining public notices, county data and skip tracing so I can get the leads directly from the source and act on them as soon as they are available. Now I am realizing there are too many of them for me to personally execute on, but I also hate the idea of wasted opportunities.
How does an experienced investors actually scale their operations besides just hiring VAs? Does anyone have any experience partnering with different RE teams local to the lead? How are those deals / incentives usually structured?
Thanks in advance! - 2yMax YuanSpecialist · NY · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 26 votesOP
@Don Konipol I think you bring a really good point. End of the day closing deals is what matters. My expertise really is in data pipelines and I'm trying to apply it in field of RE.
- 2yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesWell, there’s definitely a need to be filled. I’m going to suggest to find an experienced real estate investor/flipper/wholesaler you’re comfortable with and work out some type of partnering arrangement.
Quote from @Max Yuan:
@Don Konipol I think you bring a really good point. End of the day closing deals is what matters. My expertise really is in data pipelines and I'm trying to apply it in field of RE.
Good luck - Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2019 · 55 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @Max Yuan:
I think we can agree finding good quality off-market leads is not easy. Even with PropStream and PropertyRadar, I'm usually not the first to reach out upon seeing the lead. As a result, I actually created my own frankenstein of an automation pipeline combining public notices, county data and skip tracing so I can get the leads directly from the source and act on them as soon as they are available. Now I am realizing there are too many of them for me to personally execute on, but I also hate the idea of wasted opportunities.
How does an experienced investors actually scale their operations besides just hiring VAs? Does anyone have any experience partnering with different RE teams local to the lead? How are those deals / incentives usually structured?
Thanks in advance!Working on large-scale data is great b/c sometimes it's all about how many owners you approach daily; the issue with over-the-top details is also getting lost in targeting specific owners and situations, aka focusers/tax liens, etc.
There are two action steps no AI or VA can do better than you:
1. Prospecting data and filtering - not all lis-pendens means "distressed property"; working manually takes time, but it teaches you what a possible-good lead is you should focus on s and what is just a "maybe" or not worth wasting your time on. Understanding why specific property sold for "x" and where it went, aka flip/rental/auction, etc., and getting familiar with each zipcode so when the next lead comes up, you are much more educated to handle a conversation or pitch a solution.
2. Leads Management - filter, tag, and create tasks for each lead to arrange them better in your system; for example...there might be 25% probate leads that have the wrong data or new data exist somewhere (the right contact people, a newly assigned executor to the case, etc.). Navigating through all this information helps you target a specific number of leads you can focus on and follow up on constantly.
Ultimately, you want a good amount of properties to convert to leads by nurturing and creating relationships with the owners, being the ones to solve their problems, or offering them the best price possible. That takes time but gives you more advantages than cold touch-and-go solutions.
- 2yMax YuanSpecialist · NY · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 26 votesOP
@Roi Azoulay I think you are absolutely correct in this. End of the day real estate is a relationship game and nothing can beat the human connection.
The only thing AI and large data pipelines can really do is streamline an existing process that is working for you. If you are using VAs to put together a list, you can now do it faster and easier. But the tool is not going to help you close if you are not closing already. - 2yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Technology allows investors to be MORE EFFICIENT. In collecting and evaluating data. But investing is a decision business, do I make an offer?, how much do I offer?, do I accept the counter?, etc. There’s no one answer, a lot depends on the investors personal financial position, tolerance for risk, goals, etc. What most investors miss is setting risk return parameters that reflect their unique position. The “deals” are out there and there are numerous ways to find them. But here’s what separates the long term successful investors from the wanna bes, the hopefuls, and the people attending every seminar and buying every mentorship and never establishing a successful track record
1- the ability to IDENTIFY a deal - most deals are not advertised at a great price - negotiation is needed. That brings us to
2- the ability to negotiate to CREATE a good/great deal
3- financial staying power (being able to survive when things go south)
4 - property management
5- creativity
- Member since 2024 · 1 post · 0 votes2y
Quote from @Max Yuan:
I think we can agree finding good quality off-market leads is not easy. Even with PropStream and PropertyRadar, I'm usually not the first to reach out upon seeing the lead. As a result, I actually created my own frankenstein of an automation pipeline combining public notices, county data and skip tracing so I can get the leads directly from the source and act on them as soon as they are available. Now I am realizing there are too many of them for me to personally execute on, but I also hate the idea of wasted opportunities.
How does an experienced investors actually scale their operations besides just hiring VAs? Does anyone have any experience partnering with different RE teams local to the lead? How are those deals / incentives usually structured?
Thanks in advance!Hi Max, I am so interested in your scripts. Do you have any idea selling it?
- Specialist · LA & Ventura · Member since 2023 · 119 posts · 60 votes2y
Quote from @Max Yuan:
I think we can agree finding good quality off-market leads is not easy. Even with PropStream and PropertyRadar, I'm usually not the first to reach out upon seeing the lead. As a result, I actually created my own frankenstein of an automation pipeline combining public notices, county data and skip tracing so I can get the leads directly from the source and act on them as soon as they are available. Now I am realizing there are too many of them for me to personally execute on, but I also hate the idea of wasted opportunities.
How does an experienced investors actually scale their operations besides just hiring VAs? Does anyone have any experience partnering with different RE teams local to the lead? How are those deals / incentives usually structured?
Thanks in advance!This is similar to what I'm doing out in Los Angeles. With your pipeline of off-markets, cherry-pick the best for yourself to close on, and on the rest, lock them up with a long inspection window, and make sure you have an option in the contract to Assign the deal to another buyer. Once the seller signs it, use your CRM to mass-contact investors/developers/flippers in that area (perhaps using your database/services in a different way to identify these LLCs/people) and sell them your contract with an assignment fee. This is called Wholesaling. You could also use a listing-only service from a brokerage where you'd pay them $200-$300 to list it on the MLS, and you/your team would take all incoming calls from interested buyers, but it's a bit slimy since the seller may see it listed on the market when you appeared to be buying it.
That would be the maximum value-capture of your off-market lead machine. It's infinitely harder and much more costly to scale a construction crew than it is to find people interested in buying a good deal (that you'll provide happily). Sure, you'll have to work the seller's down a bit to make it feasible for your buyer, but that's a heck of a lot easier than managing 50+ employees and or a bunch of subcontractors! - 2yStuart UdisPro MemberAttorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I never understood the infatuation with off market real estate. I constantly hear from investors who will only look at off market opportunities and dismiss any and all properties listed on the local MLS. To elaborate how foolish this is, I receive calls on a daily basis from real estate brokers or wholesalers who ask permission to market properties I own "off market". I decline because I have no interest in selling. However, I could theoretically give the green light to market these properties at 2x their FMV and they will send the property out to their investor lists. That, by its technical definition is off market. When a broker or wholesaler contacts me claiming to have access to XYZ number of off market properties a month, that's my cue to run or unsubscribe from their mailing lists. If you are out there pushing deals, focus on quality not quantity.
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
On market deals, being exposed to the market, should sell for the fair market value. That's why investors want to see off market deals, at least there's a chance of getting it for less than fair market value. Plus they've already seen the on market ones, everyone has.
- Lender · Houston, Tx. · Member since 2023 · 91 posts · 60 votes2y
Markets vary for success on market and off market. For example, we cannot find a good deal in Houston on the MLS to save our lives, but in San Antonio there are a bunch. It's market/MLS specific. But one thing is for certain - if it's off-market, you have a much greater probability of getting to the the desired purchase % you are after. There are too many weekend warriors willing to pay a much higher percentage when its on the MLS.
- 2yJustin BrickmanBusiness MemberRealtor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2021 · 502 posts · 274 votes
Agree with your point on San Antonio. But many of my clients are getting awesome deals in the last few months, whether on or off the MLS. Homes have been sitting much longer, and sellers have their reasons to sell. Sometimes they just want to see an offer infront of them when they haven't got one after 6 weeks on the market.
Justin Brickman Realty4.9144 Reviews - 2yMax YuanSpecialist · NY · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 26 votesOP
If you offer is high enough, anyone will be willing to sell. It really is about finding deals that make sense for investors in a repeatable and scalable way. Whether you are processing inferred signals such as pre-foreclosure and tax delinquencies or optimizing for explicit leads using SEO.
There are definitely good deals to be found on MLS, but I am sure we all agree the bigger the information gap, the more opportunities there are for a lucrative deal.
We have actually seen great success partnering with some of the most tech-forward wholesalers; They are fully capitalizing on the "first mover advantage" aspect of this information gap; streaming real-time leads directly into their CRMs to automatically start their sequences. - Member since 2025 · 6 posts · 0 votes1y
@Max Yuan Hi Max how did you get Public notices and county data in bulk as most only allow you to search data individually. And was the data same as what was on Propstream.
- 1yMax YuanSpecialist · NY · Member since 2023 · 55 posts · 26 votesOPYou have a narrow down the search parameters.
Quote from @Maj Mahmood:
@Max Yuan Hi Max how did you get Public notices and county data in bulk as most only allow you to search data individually. And was the data same as what was on Propstream.
Propstream is already outdated - All the existing data sources operate on the same three data providers. First American, CoreLogic and BlackKnight. I just go straight to the source to find the info.
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