ugly situation with the city! What would you do?

ugly situation with the city! What would you do?

Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes

This is a long and painful story so I am going to do my best to summarize the situation. 

The city is being mean to me.  What should I do?

Here is the list of ideas I came up with:

1. City wants to demolish the building and they know they can use eminent domain if they need to. Up to this point I have kept all contracts with tenants short as an incentive for the city to buy... Should I write all new contracts with residents at 24 months and negotiate all contracts with business at 99 years? Theory being the city will be required to relocate and this will add tens of thousands to their cost.

2. City is marketing their lot to developers and again they will use eminent domain to take my building if they find a buyer... I could "list" my structure for $2 million (it would never ever ever ever appraise for that) to chase off any prospects the city might have in mind?

3. Do nothing and hopefully avoid adding fuel to the flame

4. Make the building an eyesore because it really will not negatively effect my rents but it will effect the appeal of downtown.

5. Use the building as a billboard.... Use eye sore marketing tactics 

(thats me and my work van... You might be surprised but its actually gotten me really good leads and listings...  Yes, that is real duct tape. Legally I could build a billboard using duct tape for the text and yes it would tick off the city.)

A slightly longer version of the story...  It will help put the above summery into context

The city wants to demolish the entire block of a building that I own... I picked the building up right ($32,500 at auction) a couple of years ago and took it from a money pit and made it into a money maker (net income $2,300 a month with room to add another $400 +).

The city bought the neighboring building for $165,000 and put $79,000 into demolishing it unfortunately the demolition created a lot of potential liability that would be my responsibility. I did not like this and I asked the council to make a plan and put $10,000 into escrow in case this potential liability became reality. They voted "no" which forced me to drop a rehab I had taking that project from an estimated $10,000 money maker to a small loss but this allowed me to have my contingency fund.

Video of the demo...  Its kinda artistic but not very good and not really informative.

The city also has low interest funds & grants to address commercial structures so I asked for funds to address my structure once demolition of the adjoined structure was complete to which they voted "no".

I couldn't understand why they were being so difficult to work with till I had an... emotional conversation with the mayor at which time he said the city might be interested in buying my structure. Im thinking they just spent $165,000 on a building that should have been condemned and I have a money maker so I should walk away with a nice paycheck.

They asked me to keep as many units vacant as possible and asked that I keep all leases short as they want the building empty. A few months go by the demo happens on the neighboring structure... the contractor puts the upper arm of his backhoe through the second floor of my building creating a 4 ft by 2ft hole with debris crushing a baby bed...

Baby was not in bed at the time and the contractor wants to fix the hole... He is part of the good ol boys club in this small town so I am now seen as a villain because I want an insurance claim (and I got an insurance claim....  not going to lie, it worked out for me.)

Anyway, Im losing money ($1,125) due to vacancy Im holding because the city wants an empty building, they push me into a position to sell another project which costs $10,000 in opportunity costs, they villainize me and then I get the offer... "City to buy the building for no less than $20,000 and no more than $50,000" "two independent appraisals to be done with the seller to pay for one ($1,500ish) and the city to pay for the second"

If the appraisals come back higher than $50k we could go into negotiations.

What do I do with these people? They are being way to aggressive and they are using dirty tactics (voting "no" to everything I ask for then they sent the sheriff to my house because a tenant had put a couch by my buildings dumpster... Half a block away there is a house with 5ft tall grass, the horder that lives there has "stuff" overflowing from the porch onto the yard AND THEY SEND THE SHERIFF TO MY HOME BECAUSE OF A COUCH????)

photos of the trash right down the street

Anyway, I countered the city with terms they countered with a slightly worse contract than the first. My question is "what do I do?" I have really tried to work with these folks but everytime I give them a carrot they swing a stick at me... Is it time for me to change tactics and swing a stick back at them? Should I sell at a huge loss? Should I dig in and cash flow the property?  What would you do?  What should I do?

1Reply
11 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y

Get your own appraiser that specializes in Eminent domain and other legal appraisals. he/she will spend much more time and effort and will come to the hearing. That's not your normal appraiser.

Some years ago I bought  a vacant lot and the city tried to take it. They offered 28K. I got an appraiser that spezialized in this stuff and at the hearing he blew the city's appraiser away. They are not used to people fighting back. It was so worth the 3K for this appraiser.

Also, they want the property empty, so that the evaluation will come in lower, so, I would not go for that. Put up 'for rent' signs outside the building, which will give them notice that you're not taking their offer, and if they talk eminent domain, let them know that you're going to fight back. 

Don't let them intimidate you by saying that 50K is the max they'll pay, regardless of appraisal. As far as I know, they're required to pay fair market value for the property, when they try to evoke eminent domain. They're just trying to bully you. Don't let them!

See this reply in the discussion

17 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    What you need to do is talk to an attorney, which can suck up a lot of money fast. Taking a hardnose tact isn't going to result in anything good coming from the City. Your best bet is in trying to work with them to come to some kind of agreement where you get your money back out of the building and not lose everything. More than likely, with eminent domain, the City will end up with your building, the only question is whether or not you get paid anything. 

    Here's my question to you. When you bought the property, did you not know that it was in an area that was falling apart, and the City was planning to do redevelopment? What were you planning long term with the property? 

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    If you can document the NOI and all financials, why worry about the appraisal? This building should be valued on a commercial (cash-flow) basis, so what you paid shouldn't hurt you.

    I'd try to negotiate for the second appraisal cost to be added to the eventual purchase price.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes
    11y

    @Richard C. 

     the city capped the price they would pay at $50k regardless of appraisal.  City law requires two appraisals that is why they are in the contract. so if the building appraises for $200k they will negotiate...  but I dont know how high they would go.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Get your own appraiser that specializes in Eminent domain and other legal appraisals. he/she will spend much more time and effort and will come to the hearing. That's not your normal appraiser.

    Some years ago I bought  a vacant lot and the city tried to take it. They offered 28K. I got an appraiser that spezialized in this stuff and at the hearing he blew the city's appraiser away. They are not used to people fighting back. It was so worth the 3K for this appraiser.

    Also, they want the property empty, so that the evaluation will come in lower, so, I would not go for that. Put up 'for rent' signs outside the building, which will give them notice that you're not taking their offer, and if they talk eminent domain, let them know that you're going to fight back. 

    Don't let them intimidate you by saying that 50K is the max they'll pay, regardless of appraisal. As far as I know, they're required to pay fair market value for the property, when they try to evoke eminent domain. They're just trying to bully you. Don't let them!

  • Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2013 · 465 posts · 170 votes
    11y

    only one solution, burn it to the ground collect insurance an sell the city a hunk of rubble. Or get a tractor and flatten all their vehicles plead out temporary insanity and go to a psychatrist for a few years.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    I would tell the city that at this point it best for both parties to cross the legal Ts and dot the legal i's. You will have your lawyer set a up a meeting with city attorneys office to discuss pending and future issues regarding your property rights. Thanks, Matt

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Karen Margrave:

    What you need to do is talk to an attorney, which can suck up a lot of money fast. Taking a hardnose tact isn't going to result in anything good coming from the City. Your best bet is in trying to work with them to come to some kind of agreement where you get your money back out of the building and not lose everything. More than likely, with eminent domain, the City will end up with your building, the only question is whether or not you get paid anything. 

    Here's my question to you. When you bought the property, did you not know that it was in an area that was falling apart, and the City was planning to do redevelopment? What were you planning long term with the property? 

    With Eminent Domain the city will be forced by federal law to pay a fair price for the property which would be much higher than $50,000 so going that route would be preferable to the current negotiation.  Im just curious if being a little more aggressive will bring about more favorable negotiation than I am currently experiencing.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

    Get your own appraiser that specializes in Eminent domain and other legal appraisals. he/she will spend much more time and effort and will come to the hearing. That's not your normal appraiser.

    Some years ago I bought  a vacant lot and the city tried to take it. They offered 28K. I got an appraiser that spezialized in this stuff and at the hearing he blew the city's appraiser away. They are not used to people fighting back. It was so worth the 3K for this appraiser.

    Also, they want the property empty, so that the evaluation will come in lower, so, I would not go for that. Put up 'for rent' signs outside the building, which will give them notice that you're not taking their offer, and if they talk eminent domain, let them know that you're going to fight back. 

    Don't let them intimidate you by saying that 50K is the max they'll pay, regardless of appraisal. As far as I know, they're required to pay fair market value for the property, when they try to evoke eminent domain. They're just trying to bully you. Don't let them!

    -- They will want the property before it comes to an ED situation for exactly the reasons you stated.  I like the idea of fighting with a private appraiser if the ED ever comes to fruition.  Good information there, thank you.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2014 · 171 posts · 116 votes
    11y

    @Andy Robison ~ I will keep that in mind...  However I think cash-flowing it would probably be a better bet.

  • Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2013 · 66 posts · 12 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Miller:

    @Andy Robison ~ I will keep that in mind...  However I think cash-flowing it would probably be a better bet.

     yes cash flow would definitely be better than that

  • Martinsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 67 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    I have never heard of a city telling you to keep the apartments empty! If so, then they need to pay you to keep them empty!  It's hard when your not in the good ol boys club. they play dirty! Lookk for help from your local state rep office!

  • Martinsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 67 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    .....and then watch the situation disappear !

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    One more thing, don't wait with hiring the special appraiser. They will suddenly set up a hearing 2 days later and you won't have time. I got 98K for the property that they wanted to pay 28K for

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    The eminent domain doesn't seem imminent, or occurring very soon.  You need to increase the value by renting it up fully, with no concern for short leases.  If they proceed with eminent domain, they'll have to pay market value, and longer term leases will just be their problem, not yours.  The answer seems fairly clear, proceed as of they never mentioned eminent domain

  • Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
    11y

    I just watched the vid of your mayor. What is he like 15 maybe? I can't imagine he'd last 5 minutes playing the game the way the game is played in the Philly-NYC metropolitan area.

    Just curious, how much was the demolition contract? What is the threshold for having to pay prevailing wage rate where you are? How much you wanna bet the contractor didn't pay prevailing wage. 

    I'll bet "Opie the Mayor" and his buddies are sloppy about their activities

  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    No. No. No.  He wants to play hard ball.  A lawyer could not suggest the following but this is what I would do.

    1)  File an official complaint to the city.  Claim they are violating your rights because they did not like you.

    2)  Say you believe the contractor damaged your building to lower your property value because of a potential eminent domain case because someone at the city does not like you.

    3)  Explain to them that the city should not damage the property in any manner because you might ask that it be returned to you as part of a 42 U.S.C 1983 claim.

    4)  Explain to them that you will be morally obligated to give notice to any potential buyer or anyone providing financing of the potential litigation.

    5)  Explain to them you would love to save everyone the years of time and the fortune in legal fees but now that the city has resorted to violence, it is hard to imagine them paying a fair price.

    That is what I would do if they were mean to me and damaged my building with an excavator.

  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    No. No. No.  He wants to play hard ball.  A lawyer could not suggest the following but this is what I would do.

    1)  File an official complaint to the city.  Claim they are violating your rights because they did not like you.

    2)  Say you believe the contractor damaged your building to lower your property value because of a potential eminent domain case because someone at the city does not like you.

    3)  Explain to them that the city should not damage the property in any manner because you might ask that it be returned to you as part of a 42 U.S.C 1983 claim.

    4)  Explain to them that you will be morally obligated to give notice to any potential buyer or anyone providing financing of the potential litigation.

    5)  Explain to them you would love to save everyone the years of time and the fortune in legal fees but now that the city has resorted to violence, it is hard to imagine them paying a fair price.

    That is what I would do if they were mean to me and damaged my building with an excavator.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.