Cash Flow vs Equity vs Net Worth: Is BRRRR worth it?

Cash Flow vs Equity vs Net Worth: Is BRRRR worth it?

Rental Property Investor · Biddeford, ME · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 14 votes

Hey BPers -

I just listened to the excellent podcast show #327 where @David Greene lays out all of the details of the BRRRR strategy. It is clearly a powerful strategy that has worked well for him and many others but I'm still questioning how it builds wealth.

Here is what I'm struggling with...

If you execute the perfect BRRR, you are left with a renovated, rented asset with none of your cash left in the deal. The property has been refinanced at about 75% LTV at the maximum appraised value.
The issue I see is that rents track home values. So while you're trying to maximize your appraisal to get your cash out, you are effectively also killing your future cash flow. And when you're only cash flowing a couple hundred per month and a bigger maintenance expense comes up - you've killed your income for the year.

Poll: What does the average 75% LTV, conventionally financed SFR cashflow?

This is the classic equity vs cash flow debate. But even the equity in a BRRR deal isn't all that useful. Given the 75% LTV, you can't tap that equity until you pay down the principal or the asset appreciates. For example, a HELOC wouldn't be worth it because most banks want 80% LTV.

Perhaps, I'm missing other ways that you can use this equity - or ways in which that 25% equity boost to your net worth can be used. I can imagine that once you have a portfolio of BRRRed homes, you may be able to get a LoC on them, even at higher LTVs.

Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture but isn't the BRRRR approach effectively creating a risky portfolio of low cash flow, highly leverage assets?

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Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

This is another instance where I feel like I’m the crazy one in this site. 

I hear “omg. Leverage is risky!” For who? The bank?

I sleep a lot better if I owe $1m on a $1m property than if I own it all cash.  If some unforeseen event happens, I can walk (with the repercussions that come admittedly) and I’m not out any $. Where as if I’m all cash in a property, if something happens I’m F’d

Leverage is ***the*** reason (not one of the reasons but THE reason IMO) people become WEALTHY in RE. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Cody L.

    Dont know him and don't need to...I will crush it regardless

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    7y

    @Elliot B.

    Great advice on this topic so far.

    I dont think its risky if you are smart on the purchase side. Money is made when you buy. I can see how it is risky when scaling without the proper reserves in place.

    I have seen guys here buying 25 houses for 60-100k making 100 dollars per door using hard money. It is brilliant for short term to build net worth/ equity but the gamble of losing your *** can be taken out of the equation with proper reserves. You can build up million bucks net worth/200k Liquidity pretty quickly and move into better properties where you control the asset value when you stabilize it.

  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    7y

    @Brian Gerlach

    I thought you couldnt 1031 residential 1-4 into different asset class. Is there a loophole for this?

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Javier D. Sure you can. It has to be a like kind exchange. The like-kind being for the business purpose of renting it out for a profit. The asset type doesn’t matter from what I’ve read. Right @Dave Foster? I believe you can 1031 into/out of residential, commercial, storage, land (?), etc. If you want a deep dive on the subject read all of Dave’s posts and you can earn an honorary PHD in 1031 exchanges!

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    Absolutely right @Brian G..  It's not really a loophole @Javier D., just the truth of the statute.  Real estate that qualifies for 1031 treatment (tax deferral) is any type of real estate you hold with investment intent.  The type of real estate does not matter - SF MF industrial, retail, agricultural - all considered like kind for each other.  

    And to bring this post back home to the original topic - The number of properties does not matter.  So you can sell one and purchase 2 or more.  You can also allocate your proceeds in any manner.  So a form of defensive investing for a bad time would be to 1031 and purchase two properties - purchase one for cash and purchase one with maximum leverage.  Now you've got a secure cash flowing asset and an asset that is letting you get the leverage bang of debt.  

    Guess how easy it is then to refinance a cash held property when you've got it stabilized performing and a good deal to purchase shows up?  

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    7y

    @Brian Gerlach

    @Dave Foster

    Great. Hope you are well Dave. Thank you both for clarifying.

    Im looking at an apartment building in one of those opportunity zones where if you hold it long enough the taxes get forgiven. Could I 1031 into that building and wipe out those taxes once i meet opportunity zone hold time parameters?

    As always thank you for the advice.

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