Post-Covid19 Bay Area Market

Post-Covid19 Bay Area Market

Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 12 votes

I am curious as to where all of you think the Bay Area market is going after Shelter in Place is lifted and the COVID-19 crisis starts to wind down? Currently, it is difficult to assess the true impact on the local residential market because many sellers are withholding their properties, showings are limited and many buyers are taking a cautious approach. In addition, with the extension of the shelter in place ordinance, local businesses will be impacted and this will mean increased unemployment for the foreseeable future thus leading to a weakening of buyer demand.

It is hard to see a crash in residential real estate prices mirroring that of the housing crash of 2008 simply because the cause of this crisis is not rooted in the health of our industry but due to a public health crisis. However, if unemployment skyrockets and significant amount of businesses are unable to recover, this will eventually lead to higher defaults on mortgages and increased numbers of foreclosures, all of this will lead to eventual and significant declines in home values in the market.

In my opinion, the one segment of the real estate industry that will be most impacted by this crisis is commercial retail. Since many of the public health concerns surrounding this crisis are associated with the impact of social gathering, that in effect will destroy many brick and mortar retail businesses. It seems as if the forces that were already impacting commercial retail such as automation and online retail, has only been expedited by Covid-19, and many mom and pop restaurants, retail businesses without deep pockets will not survive simply because the crisis for their businesses will not simply end with the lifting of shelter in place, but will only end when the fear of this virus dissipates which may be many months to a year from now when we finally have approved and effective treatments along with a proven vaccine.

In contrast, I would be curious as to what thoughts are on which industry segments will thrive post-Covid19.

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Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
6y

@Frederick Kuo I’m a real estate lawyer & investor based in Santa Cruz. Here’s what’s happening in this residential market. Google, Facebook, Tesla & other local high tech companies have announced that their employees no longer have to come into their offices. So thousands if not tens of thousands of people are moving from places like Mountain View & San Jose to more beautiful, peaceful & lower density locations within driving distance like Santa Cruz. Last week a house went on the market & received 13 offers the first day. Based on this exodus out of the valley into surrounding areas, I expect that areas like beach towns & wine country will be seeing a boom in residential housing. On the other end, the market for commercial is very soft. Tenants are contacting me trying to get out of leases. Anyone who can come up with creative ways to repurpose office space & retail will have a lot to choose from. I’m really sad to see the death of many great restaurants. I hope something great grows from their ashes.

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  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Lots and lots of posts on this subject already and.....not coincidentally......lots and lots of disagreements.

  • Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 12 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brian Garlington:

    Lots and lots of posts on this subject already and.....not coincidentally......lots and lots of disagreements.

     Must've missed them. Will check them out.

  • Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 730 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    ABB - always be buying   (especially in the Bay Area) 

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    As another poster said....but with an addendum

    ABBR    Always Be Buying Rentals 

  • Realtor · Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    Flip a coin as to what happens in the medium term (6 months to 2 years). Short term prices will rise modestly due to a massive inventory squeeze. Long term, Bay Area tends to be a safe haven compared to other markets. Medium term too many things out of your control to predict so don't bother, just be ready to ride it out if you need to. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2016 · 219 posts · 112 votes
    6y

    Apart from other factors in other parts of the country, the impact of work from homes can be significant in bay area. If the productivity remains good during this shut down, may techs may allow employees to work remotely more on an ongoing basis. This will reduce the price pressure in priciest areas and increase prices in more remote areas. This will reflect in lower appreciation in SF, South Bay and parts of east bay also while places like tracy, Morgan Hill, Stockton, and even Sacramento increasing in prices over longer term. 

  • Scott ScovilleBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2019 · 497 posts · 272 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Raju Balakrishnan:

    Apart from other factors in other parts of the country, the impact of work from homes can be significant in bay area. If the productivity remains good during this shut down, may techs may allow employees to work remotely more on an ongoing basis. This will reduce the price pressure in priciest areas and increase prices in more remote areas. This will reflect in lower appreciation in SF, South Bay and parts of east bay also while places like tracy, Morgan Hill, Stockton, and even Sacramento increasing in prices over longer term. 

    Yeah, I work in San Francisco, but live in Sacramento. I've been looking at Stockton real estate for a while, and wondering if and when you'll see bay area transplants start moving out that way. They're already moving to Sacramento. Have a ton of co-workers in Tracy. Going to be interesting to see the upcoming trends.

    Scoville Realty & Investments LLC
  • Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 12 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Scott Scoville:
    Originally posted by @Raju Balakrishnan:

    Apart from other factors in other parts of the country, the impact of work from homes can be significant in bay area. If the productivity remains good during this shut down, may techs may allow employees to work remotely more on an ongoing basis. This will reduce the price pressure in priciest areas and increase prices in more remote areas. This will reflect in lower appreciation in SF, South Bay and parts of east bay also while places like tracy, Morgan Hill, Stockton, and even Sacramento increasing in prices over longer term. 

    Yeah, I work in San Francisco, but live in Sacramento. I've been looking at Stockton real estate for a while, and wondering if and when you'll see bay area transplants start moving out that way. They're already moving to Sacramento. Have a ton of co-workers in Tracy. Going to be interesting to see the upcoming trends.

    I think one major trend that will come out of this crisis will be teleworking and working remotely. As we have seen with the technology that exists today, that we can certainly work remotely if necessary. Considering the gridlock that has become a nightmare for many Bay Area workers and residents, I think there is a real chance that as teleworking becomes mainstream, this will reduce buyer demand in the city and penninsula and increase demand in the east bay and adjacent areas of the Central Valley like Sacramento and Stockton.

  • Realtor · Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    The question remains what will happen to the large tech companies that have massive corporate real estate portfolios (and still growing) if they pull back on that strategy. I'm most interested in Google's Downtown San Jose Village as that is planned to have 5 million sq ft of office space. That'll be a major hit for the city and the local economy if that fails to develop after so many years of hype.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    I get the sense that the pendulum will swing. Remote work will likely increase bc of lower costs to companies, access to more talent, etc. But then somewhere down the road, we'll realize that humans actually like hanging out in person quite a bit. And then we'll see the value of working in offices again.

  • Chad HalePro Member
    Property Manager / Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 779 posts · 301 votes
    6y

    I think @Tommy Hoang idea will play out.  As an engineer in my previous life, there are definitely times when meeting / being in person is far better than being remote.  There were countless times someone would email back and forth instead of picking up the phone or walking 50 feet to discuss / solve something in 5-10minutes.  Yes, technology has improved and allows better remote communication but nothing currently comes close to in person communication.  All my friends still in the tech space spending hours a day on video calls are exhausted and uniformly say video calls are more taxing than in person meetings.

    That being said, there are many times when quiet uninterrupted time to focus is required.  I found the constantly shrinking more and more office to cube to open work space plans to be devastating to those needs.

    In the commercial space, we are going to see more and more businesses call it quits.  I know of several small businesses and restaurants already that have closed their doors for good.  Most of these had been around for 20+ years.  

  • Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 71 votes
    6y

    COVID has shown that technology 'IS' the future. I believe well established tech co's like FB, Google will see massive growth post COVID. Tech co's will absolutely have to widen their offices beyond Bay Area to support this growth.

    New co's will emerge, just like the Ubers, Airbnb's, Pinterest, Slack, Zoom of the last decade or so.

    These co's hire top talent, create environments for them to thrive with  large campuses and amenities. Employees are truly passionate, technology is their life and and they enjoy working long hours. Very hard to bring in this kind of passion and enthusiasm over a zoom call.

    So yes, I believe a lot of the back office operations kind of repetitive jobs will move out but a lot a new creative/engineering roles with fresh talent will be created as well. 

  • Member since 2020 · 437 posts · 675 votes
    6y

    I’d say once Covid moves on people gradually get back all the old ways of working and socializing. Those who are rejoicing on remote working and moving to the jungles or beach towns will in due course find out, those places are not only very boring but also career limiting and will want to come back to the Bay Area. Meanwhile the 1000s of people who recently got laid off from many tech companies will start hundreds of new companies, some of which will blossom into the next Googles and Facebooks of the future.

  • Rental Property Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    Watching all of this too... Here is what I've seen:

    Home prices seem to be dropping in SF and San Jose. We are in Oakland and prices are not dropping - probably increasing - and there is very low supply. This all is odd to me - if sellers are holding back on selling due to uncertainty around Covid - the increase in prices should put their minds at ease. And in Jan/Feb, a lot of homes were being prepared to sell in April/May. So, where are the sellers?

    I have heard that people are searching for more space, a yard, etc - but SF is not really a dense place, and San Jose does not seem to be any denser than Oakland. And, the dynamic of "Oakland being cheaper" is not new - it's always been cheaper. Moreover, if I only have to come to the office one day a week, and I work in Palo Alto, am I looking at Oakland or Santa Cruz? I think comparable homes are cheaper in Santa Cruz!

    There are news reports that rents are down 10 - 15 percent in SF and the Peninsula. But, is this driven by folks who have left SF for 2020 but are planning to come back next year? What if they don't return?

    And, more interesting is this article in Barron's noting that a lot of sellers are going to be coming back. Are there going to be enough buyers? https://www.barrons.com/articl...  (this does answer my earlier question about 'where are the buyers' but it also reads to me as 'sellers know this is there last best time to sell for a while...'

    Lastly, I'm watching the economic recovery and the second and third order effects of the slowdown. Some speculate that the next 3-6 months will be full of layoffs as firms "right size" their businesses. The stock market does not appear to be pricing this in.

  • Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
    6y

    @Frederick Kuo I’m a real estate lawyer & investor based in Santa Cruz. Here’s what’s happening in this residential market. Google, Facebook, Tesla & other local high tech companies have announced that their employees no longer have to come into their offices. So thousands if not tens of thousands of people are moving from places like Mountain View & San Jose to more beautiful, peaceful & lower density locations within driving distance like Santa Cruz. Last week a house went on the market & received 13 offers the first day. Based on this exodus out of the valley into surrounding areas, I expect that areas like beach towns & wine country will be seeing a boom in residential housing. On the other end, the market for commercial is very soft. Tenants are contacting me trying to get out of leases. Anyone who can come up with creative ways to repurpose office space & retail will have a lot to choose from. I’m really sad to see the death of many great restaurants. I hope something great grows from their ashes.

  • Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 12 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jenifer Levini:

    @Frederick Kuo I’m a real estate lawyer & investor based in Santa Cruz. Here’s what’s happening in this residential market. Google, Facebook, Tesla & other local high tech companies have announced that their employees no longer have to come into their offices. So thousands if not tens of thousands of people are moving from places like Mountain View & San Jose to more beautiful, peaceful & lower density locations within driving distance like Santa Cruz. Last week a house went on the market & received 13 offers the first day. Based on this exodus out of the valley into surrounding areas, I expect that areas like beach towns & wine country will be seeing a boom in residential housing. On the other end, the market for commercial is very soft. Tenants are contacting me trying to get out of leases. Anyone who can come up with creative ways to repurpose office space & retail will have a lot to choose from. I’m really sad to see the death of many great restaurants. I hope something great grows from their ashes.

     Very interesting. Santa Cruz is one of my favorite cities btw, beautiful place, great vibes.

    Will be very interesting to see how this market adapts and develops with all of the economic and social changes being accelerated by this crisis.

  • Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
    6y

    @Joe Aamidor interesting perspective. Now that high tech no longer has to provide desks & the real estate upon which they sit, there seems to be a hiring boom in tech. And employees are getting raises & incentives to stay with their employers. How will this effect Oakland? If people were mostly living there because it’s cheaper than SF, why stay when you can now live anywhere?

  • Rental Property Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Jenifer Levini  - thanks, great insight! I was wondering if people would move to a place like Santa Cruz. Prices seem cheaper than Oakland so MUCH cheaper than the Peninsula. 

    That said - 13 offers seems normal for Oakland! Are agents not instituting offer dates so that they can get even more offers?

    Also, a bit of a side note, but I saw a survey of 2000+ office workers, put together by Gensler. 45 percent want to work in the office ALL the time. 25 percent more want the office for 3-4 days a week. So, the majority of people want to be in an office all or most of the time. That said, what's stopping Facebook or Google from renting space in every major city? 

    I did not know employees are getting raises - I read that salaries are being cut. And, that if you leave the Bay area, you'll be paid less as the cost of living goes down...

  • Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 83 posts · 44 votes
    6y

    On the commercial side, two things to keep in mind are the culture and the community that the office creates. For many adults (especially those with a wife and kids), the office provides time to socialize with peers outside of their immediate family. Additionally, companies like Facebook and Google spend incredible sums of money to create the campuses that they have today. The design of these campuses is very intentional and creates a unique environment for employees. This is tough, if not impossible, to replicate at home. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Carrick Young - yes, this is exactly what the Gensler report indicated. I think a year or two from now, we'll realize the pendulum swung too far away from the office. Much like many who adopted totally open offices with very little space realized that open office is ok if done right.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I think the recent work from home hysteria is a fallacy. Conceptually, working from home has NOTHING to due with covid 19. If it’s so awesome, why wasn’t it adapted en mass years ago? Yahoo a couple years back even rolled back WFH. It’s a trend that will have some effect yes, but it’s being way over hyped. For two main reasons: 1- I’m not sure it will really provide long term benefits to the tech firms jumping on the bandwagon now 2- I’m not sure how many employees will ultimately like it, after the forced-Covid-novelty wears off. i.e. it’s hard to get all those cool tech co benefits like free gourmet food, gyms, awesome office spaces, etc., etc. piped over a zoom meeting ;)

    As for WFH effect on the Bay Area, keep in mind that when people work from home, their direct environment becomes MORE, not less important. Would you rather be home based in the Bay Area with tons of things to do nearby, good weather, lots of nature, etc. or someplace with little culture, extreme temperatures, bland immediate environment, etc., etc. There is a reason many people, who can afford to do so, aspire to live in CA and especially the Bay Area. Working from home isn’t going to radically change those aspirations.

  • Realtor · Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2016 · 76 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    Adding to this thread that people seem to have pretty short term memories. One may notice the traffic already getting bad and nothing is still open! With less people interested in public transit, and people coming from further away, people will regret moving too far away. Location to the job hubs is still critical and people are also not thinking, what if they want a different job? They are locked into that company which is not a good place to be.

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    To piggyback off what others have said...traffic is definitely picking up.....a lot.....even though people are supposedly "staying in place with some exceptions" :-)    Some folks will still want to work in the office because that's where they can network and get the "plum" assignments and positions. Obviously there will be SOME people working from home that weren't before but it won't be these massive amounts the media is hyping up.  

  • Lender · Milpitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 376 posts · 248 votes
    6y

    Great points! I echo the statement by @Jenifer Levini. With the availability to work from home, people may move out of the hyper competitive markets like San Francisco and move to a more affordable suburban area. WFH is probably not going to be a long term thing because people work better together. I envision a world where workers only need to show up to the office a few days out of the week for some critical meetings. And if they only need to commute to work a few times a week, then it wouldn't be too bad to drive an hour and a half to get there.

    That being said, the rental market in SF has dipped quite a bit. Combined with the eviction moratoriums, anyone that recently purchased a rental property in SF with the intent of buying out the old tenants to increase the rents may be in a bad position. Expect some multifamily properties to go on the market for cheap when the owners can't afford to hold on to their properties anymore. 

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 32 posts · 44 votes
    6y

    Chiming in - I do expect a correction maybe 5-15%, and if you have the cash you should buy, if not just ride it out. It's definitely not going to be as severe as the last one. The problem with crashes is most people dont know what to buy (either because they try to optimize and buy the "best deal"/time the bottom of the market) or they are just dont know what the strategy is. I recommend niche-ing in watching the market closely for a few months to a year, and then acting on all the data you've gathered. I always go back to the analogy that if a crash is 5-10%, and a growth market grows at 8-10% then really all you are gaining is a year worth of equity, so always be doing deals as long as the deal economics makes sense. 

    I dont think the WFH trend will last very long - like most things we will reach some type of equilibrium and I do think the equilibrium involves an office space, flexibility to move tech jobs, etc. To those mid-career with no plans to move jobs, might move away from the area, but honestly they tend to be the ones who have already have planted roots here, and likely more fearful of losing their jobs. 

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