Is Trump University a Scam...?!

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Is Trump University a Scam...?!

Ben Leybovich
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

So, this is in the news now-days. Here are a few thoughts - feel free to jump in:

I've often said that I think it's kinda naughty when people charge $30,000 for real estate education. My rationale is as follows:

Real estate is as old as dirt. Nothing new has been discovered in a few hundred years, and everything that can be done, has been done...

That said, in my view, educational products are simply well-organized, easy to use manuals. In a world where information is readily available, the thing of most value is TIME, and people spending money on educational products are simply buying something which will shorten the learning curve by presenting the material in a well-organized manner.

Well, how much is fair to charge for that? Is it $3,000 - is it $30,000. I charge $295 for CFFU, and I am glad to help.

The other side of the argument

I attended college at one of the best music schools in the nation, the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music. It is, and always has been, one of the best in its' space...

While I went for free, since I am so damn talented and good-looking, most kids paid $7,000/year for 4 years. They went in under the pretense that being there, at one of the best schools in the nation, will somehow result in a successful career...

Most of them are, 20 years later, still bouncing on ****!!!

Why - because it takes more than desire + training. It takes talent, which most lack; commitment, which most do not have, and luck!

How is this different from Trump University?

People paid the money, thinking that hanging out with Trump will cause them to become RE success stories. It didn't happen for them any more than for the kids I went to college with - is anyone on BP really surprised by that? 

Did the UC Conservatory of Music scam people by taking their tuition money, yet forgetting to tell them that vast majority has absolutely no chance in hell? Nope - the college tells itself that this "experience will be good for us and will teach us about ourselves..."

Conclusion

Now - am I about to start selling RE education for $30,000? Hell no! It's just not what I am about. But, I also advise everyone to not pursue liberal arts education...

Understand - I hold in much contempt parents and kids pursuing liberal arts education, going tens of thousands of dollars into debt, and then being surprised they can't make a living. I believe it's the fault of our misleading educational system, which exists to feed itself. But, nonetheless, I hold in contempt people who give into that falsehood. To study the violin, get an orchestra gig, and then go on strike because rich donors stop writing checks for your salary - asinine in my view.

More asinine than spending $30,000 on Trump University? no - about the same level of stupid...lol

So - while many are outraged with Trump University, as a representative of that which we call GURU, why are we not outraged with how worthless  (and very expensive) college education has become? Not always, of course. Not all degrees and all colleges, but most are a complete waste - just like a $30,000 guru course...

Thoughts?

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Steve B.
Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y

I believe most people who are attending university shouldn't be.  Historically most Americans didn't go to college, and college was never intrinsic to their success.  After the great society we foisted this proletarian notion of "college for everyone" and the system sold them on the idea that a the college benefit was worth the expense,  this idea became popular in a time when the cost of university was lower than the putative benefit, now the opposite is true  College used to be for the smart and the motivated, and now we have people pursuing unmarketable softball degrees in English, history, and communications that are neither smart nor especially motivated.  Meanwhile we have a dearth of vocationally trained technicians and skilled workers,  which is really the subject matter these "students" should be focusing on.  As a result, we have dumbed down the university experience to make it more accessible to average people; when I look at any engineering textbook from fifty years ago, it's obvious, how much more difficult the curriculum was back then.

I'm pretty pro-USA but in this regard Asia and Europe are way ahead of us,  generally only smart and motivated students attend university's and pursue real degrees.  You can see that our immigrates from these countries have it mostly correct, they send their kids for practical degrees in medicine, engineering, and accounting.  Meanwhile the native born kids are casually studying subjects of questionable value and enjoying a very expensive "college experience."  

 I love it when Bernie Sanders is preaching that hes going to make college "free" for even more people that have no real business being there.

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  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    The problem with this argument is that it assumes that the point of a liberal arts education is to get a well paying job, rather than to become a well-educated, well-rounded person who has been trained in critical thinking. If someone is, in fact, well-educated and well rounded and a good critical thinker, they should be able to land a job.  And having well-educated, well-rounded people that can engage in critical thinking in our society is actually pretty important.

    You and I both know that a B.M. is really more of a vocational degree, with a laser focus on developing a skill. It does not result in a well-educated person. It is in reality more akin to sports than academics. Plenty of people train for years as athletes and don't get well paying careers in sports. 

    Education has become totally devalued by American society. But that doesn't mean it has no intrinsic value. 

    8Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    @Jean Bolger - I totally disagree. All I can speak of is my own personal experience, which was same as so many other people's. My parents told me to pursue that which I was good at, and the money would follow. I, idealistically and very mistakenly, "saw" myself as a soloist, chamber musician, or at the very least principle in a A Class orchestra, doing what I love, and making a good living to boot...

    The notion that I couldn't get paid enough to have a "comfortable life" never entered my consciousness. And yet - here we are.

     I am a pragmatist, and as such I am not about to have the argument of the state of value of education in American consciousness. I happen to agree with you, But, it doesn't change anything - it is, what it is.

    And what is that? 

    Most degrees cost a lot, but pay very little. Why do you think so many people switch professions a number of times in their life - looking for more money... Most idealistic kids walk into these degrees thinking they are on their way to better financial lives. Same could be said of the folks walking into Trump University - both are lying to themselves. Yes, I can tell you about some of my friends who are soloists and principals in major US and European orchestras - they are the .1%. And, I am sure I could find that .1% of the people in Trump U also found success.

    Pursuit of knowledge is not at all the same thing as a degree. A degree is there to train someone for a career, and fair or not, most people expect a career to be financially rewarding - most are not...

    Where does this leave us...? Wanna talk about intrinsic value of education? We can, but no one goes to college for intrinsic value of education. They go to get a diploma, because statistically that brings better $$ - but does it?

    And as to life lessons, I tend to think that failure is the best teacher :)

    6Reply
  • Serge S.
    Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 390 posts · 599 votes
    10y
    Ben Leybovich TrumpU as is as much of a fraud as the Donald himself. Not a reasonable comparison to a public university. There is intrinsic value of a public university education. Learning how to carry yourself amongst your peers is just one example.
    3Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Serge S.:

    Ben Leybovich TrumpU as is as much of a fraud as the Donald himself. Not a reasonable comparison to a public university. There is intrinsic value of a public university education. Learning how to carry yourself amongst your peers is just one example.

     Hah - OK, so are these violin majors supposed to take solace in the fact that while their education didn't get them a reasonable pay check, at least it taught them how to...how'd you put it..."carry themselves among their pears"? 

    Please, Shukhat - give me something to chew on...LOL

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ben Leybovich  well Crap I wrote out this nice long reply and some how the heel of my typing hand erased it all so this is the abridged version a second time.

    Lets look at it mathematically.

    100 markets in the US that will support a realistic wholesaling campaign or flipping business.

    Guru does 12 shows a year  X 300 at average bus tour event ( the ones I have been too are about this many 7 to 9 bus's).. that's 3600 students they unleash fully trained a year.. divided by 100 markets and that 36 students per markets and 20% succeed.. so 5 to 7 a year come out of the training and make a living.

    Now lets look at BP.. 350,000 members are all here.. that's 3,500 BP students per market and lets say 2% succeed  that's 70 students per market.. Let me ask you how would your market be with 70 new wholesalers per year.. its already tough in the best markets..

    So based on this I think the Guru course trained folks per capita do MUCH better than BP.. based on the math..

    As well as with BP and GURU's these sites and Guru's are unleashing way too many people into the business and Many many should not be in it in the first or last place they do not have what it takes to be the .01% concert violinist they end up playing in the barber shop quartets.

    My other commend was on my flight from Charleston to Portland last night ( which took for ever because of a connection through ATL... ) delta in flight mag had an article on MBA pay.. starting pay for a Stanford  Wharton Harvard MBA is right at 130k a year.. with the chances for many of these to be huge wage earners.. start companies etc..

    When you talk about lib arts.. all we need to think about is Jobs.. he went to Reid here in Portland liberal land of America.. he did OK .. so its the person

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    4Reply
  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Ben Leybovich perhaps you missed my point about violin majors not really being the recipients of a quality education. We are products of a vo-tech training program for a dying industry. I don't think it's fair to draw the conclusion that there is no value in the university system as a whole because it's not churning out high wage earners.

    My husband is a native of Ireland, and was educated at an English university. He still tells a story from the first year he was in the US; he was talking with some other guys his age at the local pub, when during what he thought was a fun and lively 'debate' one of the Americans in the group stood up and said "F**k you and your fancy education-- I've got a million dollars" and stormed out. 

    That's a sad summation of so many people's attitude towards education. But the point of education is to make your life rich, not to make YOU rich. I don't know much about Trump University, but I'd bet it was offering the latter.

    3Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I believe most people who are attending university shouldn't be.  Historically most Americans didn't go to college, and college was never intrinsic to their success.  After the great society we foisted this proletarian notion of "college for everyone" and the system sold them on the idea that a the college benefit was worth the expense,  this idea became popular in a time when the cost of university was lower than the putative benefit, now the opposite is true  College used to be for the smart and the motivated, and now we have people pursuing unmarketable softball degrees in English, history, and communications that are neither smart nor especially motivated.  Meanwhile we have a dearth of vocationally trained technicians and skilled workers,  which is really the subject matter these "students" should be focusing on.  As a result, we have dumbed down the university experience to make it more accessible to average people; when I look at any engineering textbook from fifty years ago, it's obvious, how much more difficult the curriculum was back then.

    I'm pretty pro-USA but in this regard Asia and Europe are way ahead of us,  generally only smart and motivated students attend university's and pursue real degrees.  You can see that our immigrates from these countries have it mostly correct, they send their kids for practical degrees in medicine, engineering, and accounting.  Meanwhile the native born kids are casually studying subjects of questionable value and enjoying a very expensive "college experience."  

     I love it when Bernie Sanders is preaching that hes going to make college "free" for even more people that have no real business being there.

    10Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Ben Leybovich  well Crap I wrote out this nice long reply and some how the heel of my typing hand erased it all so this is the abridged version a second time.

    Lets look at it mathematically.

    100 markets in the US that will support a realistic wholesaling campaign or flipping business.

    Guru does 12 shows a year  X 300 at average bus tour event ( the ones I have been too are about this many 7 to 9 bus's).. that's 3600 students they unleash fully trained a year.. divided by 100 markets and that 36 students per markets and 20% succeed.. so 5 to 7 a year come out of the training and make a living.

    Now lets look at BP.. 350,000 members are all here.. that's 3,500 BP students per market and lets say 2% succeed  that's 70 students per market.. Let me ask you how would your market be with 70 new wholesalers per year.. its already tough in the best markets..

    So based on this I think the Guru course trained folks per capita do MUCH better than BP.. based on the math..

    As well as with BP and GURU's these sites and Guru's are unleashing way too many people into the business and Many many should not be in it in the first or last place they do not have what it takes to be the .01% concert violinist they end up playing in the barber shop quartets.

    My other commend was on my flight from Charleston to Portland last night ( which took for ever because of a connection through ATL... ) delta in flight mag had an article on MBA pay.. starting pay for a Stanford  Wharton Harvard MBA is right at 130k a year.. with the chances for many of these to be huge wage earners.. start companies etc..

    When you talk about lib arts.. all we need to think about is Jobs.. he went to Reid here in Portland liberal land of America.. he did OK .. so its the person

     Jay - I literally don't disagree with any of your points. Think of how many fiddle players come out of music colleges every year. Every one of them thinking they'll have a job. There are 100 orchestras in this country worth playing in. 500 that'll pay anything. 

    So - gurus pump out too many, barely qualified people. So do colleges. The cost - about the same. The success rate after graduation - about the same. This is why it's hard to have an attitude toward the gurus...

    Now - enters BP. Vast, vast majority of BP contingent will never do a thing or a make a dime in RE. The difference, Jay - BP Pro membership is $300. CFFU is $300...

    Here's the bottom line: If we are going to hold colleges in contempt, Jay, we have to hold gurus in contempt. Both sell very expensive education, with a promise of helping people to get ahead financially - both lie!

    On the other hand, if we are going to give a pass to colleges, then we have to give a pass to the gurus. Both deliver the same rate of success for the same price... Both lie outwardly, or mislead by association... 

    Where's the difference?

    3Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jean Bolger:

    @Ben Leybovich perhaps you missed my point about violin majors not really being the recipients of a quality education. We are products of a vo-tech training program for a dying industry. I don't think it's fair to draw the conclusion that there is no value in the university system as a whole because it's not churning out high wage earners.

    My husband is a native of Ireland, and was educated at an English university. He still tells a story from the first year he was in the US; he was talking with some other guys his age at the local pub, when during what he thought was a fun and lively 'debate' one of the Americans in the group stood up and said "F**k you and your fancy education-- I've got a million dollars" and stormed out. 

    That's a sad summation of so many people's attitude towards education. But the point of education is to make your life rich, not to make YOU rich. I don't know much about Trump University, but I'd bet it was offering the latter.

     Jean - with that I agree...

    I have 6 year-old twins. They will go to college to improve themselves. This will have nothing to do with earning a living. They'll have to take care of money another way, as they are being taught by their mother and I.

    If colleges came out with this truth - college is good for your head and you should, I'd have no problem. That's not the messaging, though. 

    2Reply
  • Tyler Weaver
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2008 · 319 posts · 243 votes
    10y

    America undervalues tech schools by a lot.  While they still value tech trades you can learn at a university such as engineering, business, law, etc.  Currently the onus of finding a degree that will be marketable upon graduation is on the individual.  Usually a kid in high school who has no idea, besides maybe trying to mimic people they think are successful. 

    Then there is the student loan program, which gives students access to way too many funds, but also makes colleges charge more with the understanding that students can just get loans for their product.  Driving the cost out of control!  It currently costs 26k a year to go to UC.

    I went to UC as well, but I didn't go to the well renowned CCM.  Just the unassuming business school, and got a degree in finance.  While I never used my degree directly in the job market, I believe this degree has impacted my skills in business significantly.  Could I build a successful RE business without it, sure!  

    The data on people with college degrees still shows a huge lift between people with degrees and without.  This data is hardly good science though, since the people who completed a degree were probably more likely to earn more money in their life, period. 

    I don't know if anyone is collecting data on success rates of guru program students vs people who didn't attend.  

    4Reply
  • JR Hinds
    Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 101 votes
    10y

    It seems like your argument isn't that Trump University isn't a scam, but that some colleges and universities are severely overvalued (and have more in common with Trump University than they would like us to think). With that point, I agree. While I was able to use my public university education to get a job right after graduation. And I've stayed in the industry and built a successful career. But most of my college friends have not been so fortunate.

    When I attended, it was much more affordable. But now, with the government artificially reducing the cost of borrowing for education, schools are able to inflate the cost of education without the students feeling that cost immediately. Politicians have started to imply that everyone needs a university education, inflating the demand and further inflating the cost.

    I'm grateful for alternate forms of education disrupting the traditional university path. Education is changing and unless those traditional forms of education adapt to the market, I think the public will finally start to realize your point, Ben.

    3Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    @Tyler Weaver - fellow Bear-cat!

    Good points. I wager to say that most successful people on BP have at one point or another purchased a course from, or attended a bootcamp by a guru! 

    One cent of useful information, out of every $1 spent, can and does result in potentially $1,000 of value. We don't deal in widgets in this sport...

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Steve B.  since I can't vote for you twice I just wanted to state that your post was excellent.

    I put my daughter through UC Davis and she got a degree in finance.. got hired by intel and now makes a substantial salary that allows her to follow Dave Ramsey to the tee... ( she never asks me LOL) ... she had no interest in Real Estate per say...  best 50k I ever spent. !!! And she loves her job travels all over the world.. So for her College was a FAB experience that set up her life.

    @JR Hinds  its flying weather lets go punch some holes and smash some bugs..

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  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @JR Hinds:

    It seems like your argument isn't that Trump University isn't a scam, but that some colleges and universities are severely overvalued (and have more in common with Trump University than they would like us to think). With that point, I agree. While I was able to use my public university education to get a job right after graduation. And I've stayed in the industry and built a successful career. But most of my college friends have not been so fortunate.

    When I attended, it was much more affordable. But now, with the government artificially reducing the cost of borrowing for education, schools are able to inflate the cost of education without the students feeling that cost immediately. Politicians have started to imply that everyone needs a university education, inflating the demand and further inflating the cost.

    I'm grateful for alternate forms of education disrupting the traditional university path. Education is changing and unless those traditional forms of education adapt to the market, I think the public will finally start to realize your point, Ben.

     Thanks for that, JR. Many on BP want to characterize GURU as a function of up-sell. With this I agree 100%. I think as teachers, we have to over-perform, and deliver more value than we receive. 

    And this goes for traditional college education, which is failing many, many students in preparing them for the real economy - period! If TU is a fraud, then so is UC, on many levels. 

    My point is - neither is a fraud, and both are frauds - pick your poison...

    1Reply
  • Jim Brown
    Millersville, MD · Member since 2015 · 140 posts · 47 votes
    10y

    the way I think that the guru's and college/univeristies differ is in how they are marketed.  You don't see infomericals on TV for colleges saying how students that attended the college were pulling down $30K a month from their couch as soon as they graduated.  Also, when you go to college they don't teach you for a semester and then tell you that if you want to learn more you need to pony up some more cash to continue.  In college, you know when you register that it's going to cost you x amount for x amount of years.  They don't use bait and switch tactics to suck as much money as possible from your wallet.

    0Reply
  • Thomas Fosnaugh
    Investor · Marion, IA · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    I went to six years of college to get my doctorate in pharmacy and I definitely think the most valuable and useful part of my entire education as it applies to my professional career was the typing class I took freshman year of high school. 

    My wife and I always remember how priceless our private school liberal arts college educations are when we're turning units or hauling appliances up a flight of stairs.

    3Reply
  • Benjamin Timmins
    Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
    10y

    I absolutely don't believe that American's look at college degrees with disdain. Employers look at degrees that teach you nothing about the job you are applying for with disdain. If I own a computer technology firm, and someone comes in with a liberal arts degree, that is worthless to me. Why would I care if you can identify a 100 different artists from the renaissance. What value does that add to my business. The point of going to college is not to enhance your knowledge of the world, it is to learn a profession, such as a doctor or lawyer. If your major was 18th century literature, and then can't find a job, thats your fault,and  no one else.

    1Reply
  • James R.
    Investor · Member since 2015 · 222 posts · 173 votes
    10y

    I agree with Ben Leybovich's posts and others who agree with him.  Again, he has taken a topic and turned it into something provocative!  Kudos!

    My example would be the following: 

    My undergrad degree is in business.  At about 30 years old, my career seemed to stall, i.e. I felt that I wasn't climbing fast enough or making enough money.

    All the rage was getting an MBA.  I thought, why do I need an MBA, i.e. more business courses that I've already taken?  Now, if my undergrad were in English, I could see the value in getting an MBA.  

    So, I took the $100,000 that I would have spent on an MBA and invested it in RE.  Best money that I ever spent!  I am reaping far more benefits with my decision to invest that $100k in RE than I ever would have gotten with an MBA, in a market saturated with MBAs.  I would much rather pay down a mortgage than pay down a student loan, plus the RE investments have 'bought' me the freedom that I enjoy today!  

    0Reply
  • Aaron Mazzrillo
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    If you didn't take the course, you don't have a dog in the fight. You can't have a valid argument based on false beliefs of what you think students may have been exposed to. Either you know or you don't and if you don't, commenting on it just wastes everyone's time.

    I went to college and typing on this forum is about as close I get to utilizing my computer science degree, but I've often said that college prepares students for the world by teaching them how to problem solve and meet deadlines. I wouldn't expect to come out of any college with any more knowledge than that, but that is enough to bring in a good income if applied properly.

    2Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jim Brown:

    the way I think that the guru's and college/univeristies differ is in how they are marketed.  You don't see infomericals on TV for colleges saying how students that attended the college were pulling down $30K a month from their couch as soon as they graduated.  Also, when you go to college they don't teach you for a semester and then tell you that if you want to learn more you need to pony up some more cash to continue.  In college, you know when you register that it's going to cost you x amount for x amount of years.  They don't use bait and switch tactics to suck as much money as possible from your wallet.

     Yes, but could it be said that the messaging is implied? This messaging is ingrained into our psyche...

    0Reply
  • Jason V.
    Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 477 posts · 426 votes
    10y

    @Jim Brown That's the thing though - the marketing of college is so ingrained and sneaky, we don't even recognize it for what it is. Go to any High School Guidance Office in the country, and their goal is to get every single student into a college of some sort. Vocational training is absolutely looked down on, and only used as a last resort for troubled kids, and kids who have zero chance of success in college, and also can't pay for it. Everyone else? Sure, it's totally reasonable to borrow a quarter of a million dollars to get a degree that has no marketable value and won't get you a job. Why? Because that's what we've always been told. Rich Dad, Poor Dad anyone? Check out the Mike Rowe Works foundation - he talks a lot about this.

    Go to college if you need a college degree to achieve your purpose in life. For the love of God, stop sending kids to $40,000+/year schools so the can figure out what they want to do with their lives. I can't think of a bigger scam in the country than that.

    *Edit: For the record, I started my response before I saw Ben's much more concise reply.*

    2Reply
  • Chris Martin
    Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    CFFU is Cash Flow Freedom University? The next time I head up to Lake Erie to fish, I will stop by your campus. Good to see members form officially licensed universities pointing out that Trump misuses the term and won't suffer the same fate as the Donald. From http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/trumps-defense-of-his-university/

    Trump and his “university,” which was never officially licensed as such and eventually had to change its name to The Trump Entrepreneur Initiative in May 2010, are the subjects of three ongoing lawsuits alleging fraud...

    My disclaimer: I've never been  to either Trump University or Ben's Cash Flow Freedom University.

    0Reply
  • Benjamin Timmins
    Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

    CFFU is Cash Flow Freedom University? The next time I head up to Lake Erie to fish, I will stop by your campus. Good to see members form officially licensed universities pointing out that Trump misuses the term and won't suffer the same fate as the Donald. From http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/trumps-defense-of-his-university/

    Trump and his “university,” which was never officially licensed as such and eventually had to change its name to The Trump Entrepreneur Initiative in May 2010, are the subjects of three ongoing lawsuits alleging fraud...

     Factcheck.org is a liberal site. 

    1Reply
  • Sean Cole
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
    10y

    Trump University is an issue because The Donald had nothing to do with writing the curriculum that was supposed to teach HIS secrets.  The instructors all had most recent job experience in retail, fast food, etc. - not a real estate bone in their bodies.

    Now, UC would be very disappointed to hear a graduate talking down about their CCM program!  Because you, or anyone else, doesn't think they "use" their college degree is different than whether you use the education you received.  Certainly, @Ben Leybovich has a different point of view with his specialized vocational degree than I do with a BA in Marketing from UC and an MBA from Xavier.  Personally, I couldn't tell you how may Ps there even are in Marketing, and as a small business owner, most of the MBA finance classes are far more advanced than I need.  This doesn't mean, though, the education(s) I got weren't worth the price I paid.  MBA program administrators and professors, at least at XU, acknowledge that at least half the value of their MBA program is the networking opportunities presented.  My own personal business relies on 1 of the connections that I made at XU and we're seeing additional growth opportunities in our business from that connection.  My quick, back of the napkin math, says that I'll generate at least as much income from that 1 connection this year as I paid in tuition to Xavier.  I'd never have that revenue source had I not gone there.

    Most kids coming right out of college go get J O B S that they couldn't get an interview for without their diploma.  Since the piece of paper is required, college tuition could be looked at as more of a tax receipt than education if you're disinclined to find value at these institutions.

    So... Long way to get to my gripe about things like this.  Many of us have become so entrenched in our own beliefs that we project our experiences and opinions on to everyone else, and anyone who dares to have a different experience or opinion is the exception to the rule or dumb/misinformed.  Psychologists call this "the false-consensus effect" and it's a real issue in our politics and lives today.

    1Reply
  • Ryan Dossey
    Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    I think my complaint with conventional college is that most people think a 4 year program will "guarantee" them a job/salary. Realistically that's not the case. To reap the full "benefit" of a college institution you have to either go into a higher (Masters or Doctroal) level program. While you can argue that the ROI may not be stellar... In the experience of my wife I strongly disagree. She will graduate debt free with a doctorate in Psychology. She wants to work in a hospital and eventually own her own practice. She will make GREAT money by most people's standards. But the important thing is that she will be doing what she loves.

    I'm doing the same thing in Real Estate. I can come/go as I please. I'm making a great living and having an absolute blast doing it. A solid majority of my success has came from applying concepts and taking action from what I've learned on BP. I've also been a "DIY" kind of guy so I suppose that is part of it.

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