Potential First Flip Deal - Questions about HML disclosure and dual agency

Potential First Flip Deal - Questions about HML disclosure and dual agency

Involved In Real Estate · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 110 posts · 4 votes

Long story short - I was put in contact of the owner of a very, very dilapidated home (in Los Angeles). The home has been vacant for years and the person who'd lived in the house previously was a hoarder. The family is aware that the home needs a lot of work. I told the owner I can close fast and I'd like to buy the home.

A week later the family real estate agent called and said they'd be interested in selling "as is" for cash. They are wrapping up some internal legal issues and will be ready to sell within a month.

My current situation is that I have around 170k of my own cash to work with, but I'll need an HML for the rest. I have one lined up. Numbers wise, I'm estimating it'll be around 3-350k to acquire + another 100k for rehab. ARV in the 580-600k range.

My questions -

* Ideally I'd like to have the HML cover the home acquisition, and then use my cash cover the rehab and holding costs. Wondering at what point to tell the agent that I'll be using an HML? I figure that if I sent the HML all the home/area info asap and have them do their due diligence sooner than later, it'll be a smoother transaction?

* Also - The sellers family agent hinted at a dual agency situation. I have an agent in my family that I trust and am very comfortable with, and I'd hate to not use him. But I can also imagine that a dual agency situation might even get me a better deal?

Thoughts?

Thanks so much for your time and expertise!

0Reply
14 views

10 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y

    who is the hard money lender you plan to use on this? Be careful to give out property details before you have the deal locked up via contract with escrow instructions.

    As far as dual agency, in this case, I disagree, you would get a better deal without agents involved. The more the seller has to pay, the more they have to charge you. Since you went direct to them, see if they can sell FSBO, so long as they are not under contractual obligation with this agent. If they are, then you don't need an agent to represent you. Tell them to take the 3% they would have to pay a buyers rep and discount the purchase price. Don't pull this card until you have already got them down on price as far as possible. This would be your last negotiation play.

  • CA · Member since 2011 · 762 posts · 182 votes
    13y

    @Ben Kahle

    I second what Will said about representing yourself. I would add that your numbers don't leave much room for error...make sure they are accurate. I'm showing only an 8% of ARV profit if you buy for $350k, sell at $580k, rehab at $100k and get a $350k loan at 3 pts and 12% for 6 months. That 8% could easily get washed away if this market slows down much more. Also, will your HML do a 100% of purchase price loan, not many will any more.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 110 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    @Will Barnard Hey there! The HML I've been talking to is Aztec Financial. Do you know of them? Happy to speak with someone else if you have someone you like. As far as the dual agency thing, thanks so much for the advice. Do you think it would be good for me to have my family agent represent me? I understand the savings/prospect aspect in not having an agent, but I also want to be protected.

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y

    Ben, great question. If you want to ensure you are protected, simply have alyour attorney look over the purchase agreement, addendums, and disclosures before you sign. That should not be more than an hour or two which is much less than 3%.

    CA CAR contracts are pretty straight f orward and not much to them.

    As far as your HML, I know who they are, you obviously have other choices too, however, you could be limited if you need 100% of acquisition. On your numbers, you are all in at 77% which is a tad tight, particularly with the use of a HML and at high leverage.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 110 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    @Will Barnard - Thank you so much :) - Would you mind loostely telling me how you got those numbers? I was at around 70%. Wondering what I'm missing here.

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ben Kahle:
    @Will Barnard - Thank you so much :) - Would you mind loostely telling me how you got those numbers? I was at around 70%. Wondering what I'm missing here.

    I used your higher end $350k for purchase plus $100k for rehab, totaling $450k all in and divided by your $580k exit value. That is 77.6%.

    However, if you can lock it at $300k, then you are at 69% which is a deal you never walk away from at this price point regardless of leverage amounts.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 110 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    @Will Barnard - Wow. What an interesting and simple formula. I've yet to come across something so to the point.

    How much does this allot for HML fees, agent fees, other soft costs and profit?

    And yet again... Thanks!

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ben Kahle:
    @Will Barnard - Wow. What an interesting and simple formula. I've yet to come across something so to the point.

    How much does this allot for HML fees, agent fees, other soft costs and profit?

    And yet again... Thanks!

    I did not invent the formula, the 70% guideline has been around for a long time, though I feel I use it and adjust it as necessary very well.

    If you are all in at 70%, you have 30% to cover holding costs! debt service, $ resale costs with enough room left over for profit and margin for error.

    Resale costs for me at this price point average just under 6.5%, and the balance of the costs rarely exceed an amount to bring the profit below a 15% of sold price profit margin. So, with a $580k exit, and a 70% all in, you can expect to make around $90k on average, higher when you have lower loan costs and vice versa.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 110 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    @Will Barnard - That's awesome info. The 70% formula I've been using has many more steps than yours. Great to know!

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ben Kahle:
    @Will Barnard - That's awesome info. The 70% formula I've been using has many more steps than yours. Great to know!

    Just keep in mind that as exit value price points change, the rule must as well. Changing Market conditions will also require adjustments, this is NOT a one size fits all guideline.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.