Shower Enclosure: American Standard 1-Piece Glue-Up Alcove

Property Manager · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 149 votes

Does anyone have experience using this American Standard material to rebuild a shower enclosure? Typically we use 12x12 tile with a pan but a vendor is recommending this product from Home Depot.

Doesn't seem better than tile to me...vendor is saying it is better than tile for water intrusion (Las Vegas has 3rd hardest water in the nation).

Labor/material cost is about the same as a 12x12 tile.

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Will BarnardPro Member

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Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

Certainly not a better product than tile, however, as long as it is not cracked during years of use, it is certainly a good “cheap” option. Your usage should determine if you use a product like this or an actual full tile surround with waterproofing of the pan. You get better resale value from tile over a fiberglass insert. If this is a rental in a non higher end area, then perhaps the insert is the way to go.

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Will BarnardPro Member
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Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
Certainly not a better product than tile, however, as long as it is not cracked during years of use, it is certainly a good “cheap” option. Your usage should determine if you use a product like this or an actual full tile surround with waterproofing of the pan. You get better resale value from tile over a fiberglass insert. If this is a rental in a non higher end area, then perhaps the insert is the way to go.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Does anyone have experience using this American Standard material to rebuild a shower enclosure? Typically we use 12x12 tile with a pan but a vendor is recommending this product from Home Depot.
Doesn't seem better than tile to me...vendor is saying it is better than tile for water intrusion (Las Vegas has 3rd hardest water in the nation).
Labor/material cost is about the same as a 12x12 tile.

Yes, we used it once before in an attempt to get a bathroom turned quickly between tenants instead of tiling. The material is ridiculously flimsy and cheap. You need a solid substrate to hang it from - I think the instructions recommended 1/2" OSB or thicker, so forget about just using it straight to studs.

Having used it once I wouldn't go that route again. A well-tiled bath will have no problem whatsoever with water intrusion. Hell, even one that isn't top of the line usually holds up pretty good. I had a shower at my house that had 4" tiles and when I remodeled the bathroom the tiles were directly mastic to regular 1/2" painted drywall. No mold, no damage to the drywall, nothing. Of course we redid it with cement board but most water intrusion on tile happens where it's caulked at the corners and bottom. You get some absorption through grout but it's pretty minimal.
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Ryan Normand
Contractor · AZ · Member since 2022 · 215 posts · 185 votes
3y
Ditto on the previous two comments. Tile beats Acrylic any day of the week.
I've never used this product but to me it just seems like a standard acrylic tub surround with some clever marketing. Acrylic tends to yellow over time and it just looks cheap. It's main advantages are A) it's cheap and B) it's (usually) faster to install. If this product is the same price as tile and you have time, then just do tile.
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OP
Property Manager · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 149 votes
3y
@Ryan Normand @JD Martin @Will Barnard Thank you all for weighing in and providing guidance. We will proceed with our standard tile vendor on this job. Much appreciated!
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OP
Property Manager · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 149 votes
3y
@Ryan Normand @JD Martin @Will Barnard since we are on the topic of showers could you give your opinion on weep holes. We do *not* caulk them. However, sometimes we take over houses for property management and the shower's weep holes have been previously caulked by a homeowner or a handyman.
1) is it worth removing caulk from a weep hole
2) have you seen damage occur from a caulked weep hole?
Thank you.
-Heidi
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

@Ryan Normand @JD Martin @Will Barnard since we are on the topic of showers could you give your opinion on weep holes. We do *not* caulk them. However, sometimes we take over houses for property management and the shower's weep holes have been previously caulked by a homeowner or a handyman.
1) is it worth removing caulk from a weep hole
2) have you seen damage occur from a caulked weep hole?
Thank you.
-Heidi

If you are talking about weep holes in escutcheon plates, I would not caulk those. I have never seen weep holes in a tile wall; if you are getting water behind the tile to where you needed a weep hole, you have big problems.
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Property Manager · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 149 votes
3y
@JD Martin
Here is an example of the types of tile shower weep holes we have in Las Vegas. This is an example of a builder shower from the 90's with no caulk. My understanding is weep holes are built into the shower pan for condensation between materials that are influenced by different temperature zones (outside wall). We always remove the caulk when we see a shower weep hole covered.

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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

@JD Martin
Here is an example of the types of tile shower weep holes we have in Las Vegas. This is an example of a builder shower from the 90's with no caulk. My understanding is weep holes are built into the shower pan for condensation between materials that are influenced by different temperature zones (outside wall). We always remove the caulk when we see a shower weep hole covered.

That's just for the shower pan and yes you should not caulk them as they let water trapped on the shower pan lip get out. There's no way that could drain water from behind a wall unless there was a plastic sheeting system that overlapped the lip to drain water to the lip. Water vapor condensation should be kept outside an interior wall by the Kraft paper on the insulation.

I am not familiar with intricacies of desert construction but I don't see that being used for tile walls. Shower pans, yes, but not tile walls.
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Ryan Normand
Contractor · AZ · Member since 2022 · 215 posts · 185 votes
3y
You are probably going to get conflicting opinions on this one. If you ask the pan manufacturer, then yes, they will say leave the weep holes open. If you ask me, it's an eyesore to have that hole there and probably won't make a huge difference if the waterproofing system behind the tile was installed correctly. Remember there is a vertical tile flange that extends about 1" up the wall behind that weep hole, and the wall waterproofing should overlap that tile flange, so any water that gets back there won't end up inside your wall regardless.
Ask your tile installer how they prefer to handle it. If you're really worried about it just follow the manufacturers instructions, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this one.
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Property Manager · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 149 votes
3y
Thank you @Ryan Normand! I appreciate your response especially because you work in the desert too. This has always been a question of mine and the internet takes me down a forever rabbit hole for shower pan weep holes. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me. Have a great day. -Heidi
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Will BarnardPro Member
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Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
I have never had a weep hole in a shower and if I came across one, it would likely be an outdated bathroom that would get gutted and have a full remodel done to it.
That said, the weep hole is there for its purpose and should not be caulked, eye sore or not.
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Ryan Normand
Contractor · AZ · Member since 2022 · 215 posts · 185 votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Thank you @Ryan Normand! I appreciate your response especially because you work in the desert too. This has always been a question of mine and the internet takes me down a forever rabbit hole for shower pan weep holes. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me. Have a great day. -Heidi

You're welcome! I also went down the weep hole rabbit hole after reading this post. Take my answer with a grain of salt because it assumes everything else was properly installed and waterproofed, which isn't always the case :)
I did double check one manufacturers instructions and they do say to leave the weep holes open. So if you want to be safe and add another line of defense then yes leave them open. A lot of tubs/shower pans don't even come with weep holes which is why I question their usefulness IF the walls are 100% waterproofed with schluter, redgard, aquadefense, etc.
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