MAYDAY! Contractor sucks!

Rehabbing & House Flipping

MAYDAY! Contractor sucks!

Donald Hendricks

Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes

I just moved out of my primary house, which I am converting to a rental. I hired a LifeStyles Unlimited (real estate investors club) recommended vendor from their magic vendor list. Regardless, it appears that this guy is in over his head with the mediocore quality of work that is being done. All I wanted was popcorn scraped, ceilings prepped, knockdown texture to applied consistent with knockdown texture that is in the master bedroom. Replace existing doors with 6 panel doors, and paint interior of house. Also there were a few cosmetic areas of wall textured that needed to be touched up

Job was suppose to be done yesterday, then today. I have been out of town. Not concerned about timeline. Went by today and now I am concerned that a troop of Boy Scouts could do better work. The popcorn was scraped , in the process ceiling was gouged, popcorn remains at edges, torn seams, no prep work, some type of texture was applied, I would hardly call it knock down, not consistent witt the master bedroom. Painting is amature hour. He painted light fixtures and other hardware. 6 panel doors have turned out to be 4, no biggie they look good, so I am ok with that, but not consistent with scope of work. None of the touch ups too the few areas that I requested were done.

I am so at a loss for words or what to do at this point.

Kick him to the curb? It'll cost me more than the original job to fix his "handy" work. I have paid him 60% of the job already up front.

Give him a chance to remedy his mess?

Really at a loss what to do at this point.

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J ScottPro Member

Moderator

Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

11y

Lessons:

- Don't leave new contractors unchecked for multiple days at a time.

- Don't pay large sums upfront.

- Have written contracts and scopes of work.

- Check previous jobs before hiring.

Podcast Guest on Show The Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2024 (What Investors NEED to Know)

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Javier Marchena
Investor · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2010 · 165 posts · 68 votes
11y
Most of the best contractors are busy enough that they do not need to pay a fee on these websites in order to get work.
Try to find a contractor recommended by a happy costumer.
Word of mouth is the best advertisement.
3 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Joe Cummings:

""The expression, "Show your mettle" or "Is he worth his mettle?" comes from the days of the traveling itinerant millstone dressers. They would travel the countryside, from mill to mill, seeking short time or term work. The mill owners or the miller would ask the prospective worker to "show his mettle!" The millstone dresser to show his mettle, he would roll up his sleeves, to reveal his forearms. In dressing millstones, the metal tools used, caused chips of metal to embed themselves under the dresser's skin. If it was not removed, it would cause a bluish discoloration. The bluish discoloration did not mean that he was a good stone dresser, but only that he had experience at dressing stones. If the metal chips were not removed, they would cause a bluish discoloration (much like a tattoo) of the skin.""
Forget the glossy cards, and the fancy websites. Look at a contractor's hands. They should show the signs of doing the work he claims to do. Slickeroo sales Jerk Of fs have the hands of someones trophy wife. They take a cut, and yet add no real value to the project.
The only salesman who should be getting a "cut" of the money on a project, is the one that sells your "finished product"
True words of wisdom. Thanks!
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Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Natalie Pilkinton:
@donald if you are going to state things that I say please dont manipulate what is said. There was a learning curve for both you and the Handyman that you hired off our vendor list. Your story on here is incomplete. I am not going to get on it here but I will say the handymans work was not acceptable. Your actions played into It as well. Yes both parties have room for improvement. As always I am available if you need me. I also have your email thanking me for helping you understand how this could have been handled better. ALL vendors no matter their source are good only until they are not.
If I "manipulated" something you said, feel free to point it out. I don't believe that I have. Its not like I said that you told me that it was "hard to tell" from the pictures if the quality of work was bad or not, which you did say at one point. Here you say that the work was not acceptable, which is in my opinion, an understatement. You are right, the story here is incomplete, I didn't post all of the pictures of the deplorable work, just the most outlandish ones. My "actions" in the manner in which Scott Flynn of a Road Runner Construction, a Lifestyles Unlimited endorsed vendor, was terminted really has no bearing on the quality of the work, rather it is a result of the work. Yes, I did send you an email thanking you for talking me down off the cliff, to which I was referring to not pursuing Scott Flynn in small claims court. "Poking the bear" as you put it, because as you said, I "still owe" Scott Flynn money. And he still owes me quality work. While it may be true that "ALL vendors no matter their source are good only until they are not", the same holds true for Lifestyles Unlimited. In my opinion, it is Lifestyles Unlimited that is getting the black eye from this. You, as the Vice President of Vendor Program, have the leverage to force Scott Flynn to make right by this or force him out. However, you choose to "monitor" him and subject other memebers to his talents.
********************************************
From: Donald Hendricks
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 2:05 PM
To: Natalie Pilkinton
Subject: Thanks

Thanks for talking me down off the cliff today. In the big scheme of things, this really is a cheap education and a new tool in my tool belt to draw on moving forward.

Donald

Sent from my iPad
**************************************************
No where did I say that I was happy that Lifestyle Unlimited has choose to leave me hanging when they are the ones with the leverage. Also note, I have never said, nor inferred that Lifestyles Unlimited should pay for Scott Flynns hackmenship, as some others have opined that they should.
2 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Aaron Thivierge:

...wow, those pictures don't lie...unbelievable. Is the contractor licensed and insured? Please update this thread with how this story ends... Great post above by @J Scott
Texas requires neither.
0 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Lynn Dee Murrow:

All contractors, no matter where they come from are great until the moment their not.
Its almost like dealing witht the Democrat party, everyone has their talking points down.
Same holds true for Lifestyles Unlimited.
2 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Thomas Williamson:

I can tell you from personal experience with Lifestyles Unlimited that as a member if you go to the members section and post a bad review about a vendor, it may get changed. I posted a bad review about one of there vendors and it was changed to a more favorable review.
I realized the shortcoming's of that organization and quickly cut ties with them.
That is strange, I was assured by Natalie Pilkinton that this does not happen. That is why I have chossen to "review" both Scott Flynn of Road Runner Construction, a Lifestyles Unlimited endorsed vendor, AND Lifestyles Unlimited right here, where they have zero control over the content. Should either party choose to make this right, I will be happy to update the masses. Until then, the facts as they are speak for themselves.
0 Reply
David Begley
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 415 posts · 299 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Donald Hendricks:

Originally posted by @Thomas Williamson:
I can tell you from personal experience with Lifestyles Unlimited that as a member if you go to the members section and post a bad review about a vendor, it may get changed. I posted a bad review about one of there vendors and it was changed to a more favorable review.
I realized the shortcoming's of that organization and quickly cut ties with them.
That is strange, I was assured by Natalie Pilkinton that this does not happen. That is why I have chossen to "review" both Scott Flynn of Road Runner Construction, a Lifestyles Unlimited endorsed vendor, AND Lifestyles Unlimited right here, where they have zero control over the content. Should either party choose to make this right, I will be happy to update the masses. Until then, the facts as they are speak for themselves.
I'd further write a review on Kudzu, Angie's List and the Better Business Bureau about not only the contractor, but your experience with Lifestyles. They would either quietly make it right or risk losing many times the disputed amount in the loss of future business.
3 Reply
Mark R.
Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 8 votes
11y
Well I can say I never appreciated what my contractors did or didn't do for me until I became a contractor, and I can tell you it opened up my eyes to a lot of things I never paid attention to. So with that being said I'm sure if nothing was in writing this is what was bound to happen. Sounds like to me your idea of what was being asked to be done was not the same in his mind. Regardless lesson learned for the both of you next time get it in writing in detail what you expect and when its not up to par with contract then you address accordingly. This is why in my contract I put a per day penalty so you can be assured that I'll finish on time Good luck on the redo of work and hopefully it won't cost you too much more headache cause the money is enough of an issue at the moment!
3 Reply
Rolanda Eldridge
Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
11y
Wow, what an experience! I experienced similar, but don't lose focus. Kick him to the curb quick and keep it moving!!! Quality contractors exist. I'm going into year 10 and still come across scam artist, but I can weed them out QUICK!!!.. Trust your gut!!!
0 Reply
David Begley
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 415 posts · 299 votes
11y
@Mark R. Did you read the entire thread and look at the pictures?? No amount of communication, written or otherwise, would've or could've prevented this contractor from being plain ****** with shoddy workmanship. How does putting it in written improve a Contractor's basic skills? GCs should be licensed and regulated as they are here in Georgia. I doubt the contractor in question could meet these Georgia licensing requirements:
A Contractors License (General Contractor) is required in Georgia when the project exceeds $2,500.
- Pre-approval from the state is required to sit for the examination.
- Please note that the Georgia Business and Law exam is also required to be passed to obtain your contractor’s license.
- Licensure will be required for the practice of contracting in Georgia for any job over $2,500.
- Applicants must have a minimum of net worth of $150,000, a Line of Credit with a minimum of $50,000 one must have a CPA submit a reference letter/form attesting to either a review or audit.
- Must provide copy of an insurance certificate showing proof of workers compensation insurance as required by Georgia law and liability insurance in a minimum amount of $500,000. If applicant is applying as an individual, such proof shall be on behalf of the individual. If applicant is applying as a qualifying agent, such proof shall relate to the business organization.
1 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Mark R.:

Well I can say I never appreciated what my contractors did or didn't do for me until I became a contractor, and I can tell you it opened up my eyes to a lot of things I never paid attention to. So with that being said I'm sure if nothing was in writing this is what was bound to happen. Sounds like to me your idea of what was being asked to be done was not the same in his mind. Regardless lesson learned for the both of you next time get it in writing in detail what you expect and when its not up to par with contract then you address accordingly. This is why in my contract I put a per day penalty so you can be assured that I'll finish on time Good luck on the redo of work and hopefully it won't cost you too much more headache cause the money is enough of an issue at the moment!
There was a detailed scope of work in writing. Scott Flynn of Road Runner Construction failed to follow it, and worse yet, did damage rather than improvements.
0 Reply
Mark R.
Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 8 votes
11y
@David Begley I disagree with your statement as to the shotty work and here's the reason why. The main problem is that Donald didnt check the progress of work nor it seems he didn't have people to take his place while he was out of town. I don't know the situation so I can only assume and with that I am not bashing Donald he may work full time and its hard to make sure things are going well when you have to do what you do to keep making money. We all can't baby sit a rehab and if its coming on the recommendations of others.....and if the source is highly accredited well you can assume that you don't have to babysit the job. I think that is really the only mistake here in this case because if the work was properly supervised this problem would not have occurred to the extent that it did. Donald could of corrected the issues right when they were happening. So that is why I said there was no communication. And I would also refute the claim of looking at a contractors hands to see if he's working. I make more money using my mind than my hands and my hands will never make me more money than my mind period. If I'm only rehabbing a couple of places at a time then yes I will be working more hands on but if I have 4 to 6 working then I'm supervising and making sure everybody is doing there job and I'm checking on things everyday making phone calls and seeing where everybody is at. If work is not up to par or looking like its going in that direction then we need to talk about it and make sure what I am expecting something to look like what it is suppose to look like. I'm not trying to bash anyone just saying that Donald has a responsibility to make sure what he is paying for is being completed the ways he wants it done.
0 Reply
Mark R.
Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 8 votes
11y
I will add I think the people who endorsed this contractor do need to step in a pay for some of the correction work needed because it does show the intrequity of the company and it shows its clients that they will help when situations like this come up instead of pocketing money from the contractors for the lead which turned into a job.
2 Reply
Greg H.Pro Member
Moderator
Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Joe Cummings:

Forget the glossy cards, and the fancy websites. Look at a contractor's hands. They should show the signs of doing the work he claims to do. Slickeroo sales Jerk Of fs have the hands of someones trophy wife. They take a cut, and yet add no real value to the project.
I am not sure the looking at the hands would work with me. My hands have calluses because I don't where a glove when I play golf !
0 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Mark R.:

@David Begley I disagree with your statement as to the shotty work and here's the reason why. The main problem is that Donald didnt check the progress of work nor it seems he didn't have people to take his place while he was out of town. I don't know the situation so I can only assume and with that I am not bashing Donald he may work full time and its hard to make sure things are going well when you have to do what you do to keep making money. We all can't baby sit a rehab and if its coming on the recommendations of others.....and if the source is highly accredited well you can assume that you don't have to babysit the job. I think that is really the only mistake here in this case because if the work was properly supervised this problem would not have occurred to the extent that it did. Donald could of corrected the issues right when they were happening. So that is why I said there was no communication. And I would also refute the claim of looking at a contractors hands to see if he's working. I make more money using my mind than my hands and my hands will never make me more money than my mind period. If I'm only rehabbing a couple of places at a time then yes I will be working more hands on but if I have 4 to 6 working then I'm supervising and making sure everybody is doing there job and I'm checking on things everyday making phone calls and seeing where everybody is at. If work is not up to par or looking like its going in that direction then we need to talk about it and make sure what I am expecting something to look like what it is suppose to look like. I'm not trying to bash anyone just saying that Donald has a responsibility to make sure what he is paying for is being completed the ways he wants it done.
As is the case, I work 70 hours a week out of town, and I relied heavily on this vetted vendor from Lifestyles Unlimited. There was a detailed scope of work in writing. To foresee that this vetted vendor would do third world hatchett job work was not even on my radar. Who the hell butchers a door casing to hang a new door? In what universe does that even seem reasonable? Same goes for finishing a closet without a casing.
For Lifestyles Unlimited to endorse this vendor and subject their other members to loses at the hands of this vendor is where my issue todays is. Basically the message is, so what if he screwed you, we are going to watch him screw someone else too because he is paying us.
Any half educated nit wit can call themselves a contractor in this state and things may go well for some time, its what you do when they don't go well that is what really matters. Same goes for Lifestyles Unlimited.
2 Reply
Lynn Dee Murrow
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2012 · 119 posts · 104 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Thomas Williamson:

I can tell you from personal experience with Lifestyles Unlimited that as a member if you go to the members section and post a bad review about a vendor, it may get changed. I posted a bad review about one of there vendors and it was changed to a more favorable review.
Thomas it is our policy that comments are left as is on our member HUB. Please contact me and let me know what happened in your case so I can better understand the issue and resolve it.
As Executive Vice President of Lifestyles Unlimited I always appreciate the opportunity to correct mistakes. We have been around for 25 years because we are committed to the success of our members. If people were fired every time they made a mistake it would be a chaotic world. Think about it in your own work. When you make a mistake should your boss fire you? Or would it be better to work with you to help the customer and then make sure you and your team knows what to do to prevent the mistake from happening again? Obviously there are things that happen from time to time that require someone to be fired and if that is the case I will take that action. In life I have found that most mistakes you, me or a vendor working with a real estate investor make are just that...mistakes... I believe that with good communication and teamwork they can be resolved.
As to other comments on this topic:
- most vendor referral programs are paid programs to cover the costs of administering the program. That does not mean the vendors are treated with preference over the customer. This is a synergistic business. Investors need vendors and vendors need investors. Things will go wrong, as they do in every line of work, it is how they are resolved that matters.
- Taking issues to social media with only part of the story provides for some spirited conversation but does not resolve the issue. Open, honest transparent communication with those immediately involved usually will resolve the issue. It requires controlling our emotions, listening to the other side, expressing ourselves with clarity and recognizing that all someone can do is move forward from the current circumstances - there is no way to go back into the past and undo the mistake that happened. Problem resolution, in my opinion, is about moving forward and looking for the win-win solution given the current set of circumstances.
The best part of being a real estate investor is the amazing community we all belong to.
0 Reply
Joe Cummings
Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
11y
Tell the contractors that you need documentation of his drug policy and proof that he has a random drug testing program in place.
That should send about 99% of them running lol
0 Reply
David Begley
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 415 posts · 299 votes
11y
@Mark R. It's hard to believe a licensed contractor would defend this hack. (Nor can I believe the great state of Texas doesn't license and regulate contractors.) He was given an opportunity to fix his mistakes, and the result is highlighted in the posted pictures. I don't know where the comment about "...looking at a contractors hands..." came from, but not from me. I shouldn't have to stand over your shoulder to make sure you do your job right and besides, how many different variations of scraping a popcorn ceiling and replacing with a smooth texture need to be monitored? If my contract calls for a 6 panel door and the contractor installs 4 panel doors, is that really a communication problem? No, of course not, the guy obviously lacks the necessary skills to do the job. You are right, however, when you imply Lifestyles should pony up the repair costs for their role in this debacle.
3 Reply
Mark R.
Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 8 votes
11y
That's what I assumed Donald cause you would of went by and seen what was done and addressed the issues right then and there. I'm sure next time you will hire a friend to go by and look at the property send you pictures and make sure its good to go. But I still think Lifestyles owes you something cause they collected money from the Contractor for the lead I bet
0 Reply
Natalie Pilkinton
Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2009 · 40 posts · 9 votes
11y
@Donald HendricksWe are dedicated to resolving this complaint with you and the handyman you hired who is a vendor in our program. We are happy to reschedule the resolution meeting you did not attend.
0 Reply
Greg H.Pro Member
Moderator
Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Lynn Andris:

- Taking issues to social media with only part of the story provides for some spirited conversation but does not resolve the issue. Open, honest transparent communication with those immediately involved usually will resolve the issue. It requires controlling our emotions, listening to the other side, expressing ourselves with clarity and recognizing that all someone can do is move forward from the current circumstances - there is no way to go back into the past and undo the mistake that happened. Problem resolution, in my opinion, is about moving forward and looking for the win-win solution given the current set of circumstances.
The best part of being a real estate investor is the amazing community we all belong to.
Lynn- I believe Donald invited you to share the rest of the story or anything he omitted ?
Is LU compensated by the vendors on the list ?
2 Reply
Joe Cummings
Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
11y
If the guy's trade dosen't show on him, his truck and his tools, you're talking to a middleman/salesman who is going to send out a crew of drunks/addicts/illegals to do the actual work.
When the guy calls them "Subs" that just means he is 1099-ing them to get around having to hire actual employees.
WTF do you need Mr Cleanhands for? Because he stands behind the work done by "his men"? Yeah like that ever happens
1 Reply
Mark R.
Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 8 votes
11y
@David Begley I'm not defending the work I'm saying the responsibility falls ultimately on the person paying for the work. And Donald didn't have a person to take his place to make sure the obvious was being taken care of because he works 70 hours a week. And your right he shouldn't have to stand right over somebody to make sure they are doing it right and the contractor should of definitely called Donald to let him know things are not going as planned and here's the reasons why. I find this is the main reason why things don't go as planned because a lot of the time people don't want to admit they have done something wrong. So many things can be easily addressed and fixed if people on both sides just talk it out and move on fast and effectively. No one can say they had a crappy contractor if they checked the work out as it progressed.
0 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Natalie Pilkinton:

@Donald HendricksWe are dedicated to resolving this complaint with you and the handyman you hired who is a vendor in our program. We are happy to reschedule the resolution meeting you did not attend.
Nice Spin, but that was not a date and time that I agreed to and FURTHER, it was not a resolution meeting, it was a meeting to get Scott Flynn to sign a lien waiver. Resolution involves the $3050 that I am paying to fix the deplorable work, and this doesn't count one penny for the 6 door casings he butchered trying to hang new doors or lost rent.
0 Reply
Donald Hendricks
OP
Investor · Clarksville, IN · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 96 votes
11y
What part of the story was left out? Please enlighten us all. I have never spoken with you or communicated with you in anyway about this issue. I can only assume that my emails have been forwarded to you because you now have an opinion. Please tell us all what part was left out that has any merit on the crappy work done the first time AND the second time? Further, I have PM you here and you have not responded. I assume you have my contact information, as it was posted right here in this very thread, you have not reached out to me in any manner other than to suggest that I am being less than forth comming with details. Calling me a liar is not resolution.
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