Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
Below are pics of what I'm working with. It's an 1880's home and everything I've read says they used pine and the lumber store said it was either pine or fir so I'm guessing it's pine. In my opinion the floor is great in 90% of the area but the 10% that's bad is fairly bad like the last picture where I would need to replace some boards. Is this possible? Has anyone refinished old pine like this and what did you do with bad spots? I can try and use closet boards but they're fairly short.
Also pine is fairly soft even if 1880's pine was harder than modern pine. Will a drum sander just tear through these? I have a lot of paint and junk to get off the top and get to fresh wood.
Investor · Harker Heights, TX · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 34 votes
10y
arrgggh! painting wood floors! Please see (almost any) episode of Rehab Addict. Drum sander and poly can make these floors look amazing. Your floors aren't in bad shape at all.
Personally, I'd hire that out, leave the drum sanders to experienced operators.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Looks like pine. It refinishes beautifully for those who appreciate the look of old wood. It is very soft and will need a new screen/recoat every 2-3 tenant turnovers, and more frequently if you allow pets. I have it in a few of my rentals.
It was probably originally used as a subfloor. Is it the layer directly on top of the joists? In these older homes there was usually something harder, like a layer of oak, on top of the pine.
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
Thanks for the reply! Yes it's directly on the joists. I'd really like to refinish it. Need to decide between using a drum and orbital sander. Since there's so much gunk I'm leaning towards drum. Probably should test that black crap for asbestos too.
Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 256 votes
10y
@Ryan King - before you go sanding the floors, test them for lead paint and proceed accordingly.
While I'm not sure what was/is used out in your parts, here along the east coast, pine and fir was (and still is) widely used as a flooring. That said, it's predominately Southern Yellow Pine. Old growth wood is stronger and harder than managed growth timber of today. And the hardness of pines varies... SYP is much "harder" than say eastern or white pine. If you're curious, Google Janka Hardness Scale (cool stuff for a construction junkie like me).
On another note, given the (end grain) photo - it looks like they didn't use tongue-and-groove boards, which is typical of finished wood flooring then and today (or did you cut them off). As @Max T. mentioned, a single layer of non T&G boards was often the subflooring and not the finished flooring. It certainly makes it easier to replace boards, but seasonal gap changes as a result of humidity may prove undesirable. If they aren't T&G boards, take note of how the boards were fastened (i.e., face nailed or blind nailed) as you might want to take this into consideration when thinking about the end result aesthetically.
You might want to check with a local mill... you might have better success in a positive ID of the wood specie and they can replicate the board sizes you want/need.
If you're not familiar with a drum sander, I'd suggest you go the route of an orbital one and go slow...
Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 5 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Ryan King - before you go sanding the floors, test them for lead paint and proceed accordingly.
While I'm not sure what was/is used out in your parts, here along the east coast, pine and fir was (and still is) widely used as a flooring. That said, it's predominately Southern Yellow Pine. Old growth wood is stronger and harder than managed growth timber of today. And the hardness of pines varies... SYP is much "harder" than say eastern or white pine. If you're curious, Google Janka Hardness Scale (cool stuff for a construction junkie like me).
On another note, given the (end grain) photo - it looks like they didn't use tongue-and-groove boards, which is typical of finished wood flooring then and today (or did you cut them off). As @Max T. mentioned, a single layer of non T&G boards was often the subflooring and not the finished flooring. It certainly makes it easier to replace boards, but seasonal gap changes as a result of humidity may prove undesirable. If they aren't T&G boards, take note of how the boards were fastened (i.e., face nailed or blind nailed) as you might want to take this into consideration when thinking about the end result aesthetically.
You might want to check with a local mill... you might have better success in a positive ID of the wood specie and they can replicate the board sizes you want/need.
If you're not familiar with a drum sander, I'd suggest you go the route of an orbital one and go slow...
Good luck on your project!
I just refinished my Southern yellow pine floors. Lookes great and the old growth has a tighter grain structure (much stronger). Wish I had the before and after pics.
LEAD LEAD LEAD. I am EPA lead certified and often in older homes people would use Japan Dryer to speed up the drying time to get the job done. Older Japan Dryer used to have LEAD in it. People often dont think about the fact that floors that look like they just have poly on them can have lead also not just the paint in your old house.
Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 114 votes
10y
Another option is to do a decent enough sanding job to remove the old adhesive (check for asbestos) and then apply a high quality floor paint. It's not for everyone, but you can get a nice look with a durable finish. It all depends on what is popular in your area. If you do decide to paint, talk to a real paint store, not a big box retailer, and get their recommendation on a product.
Investor · Northeast, NE · Member since 2015 · 258 posts · 83 votes
10y
careful when sanding. The glue and crap is going to sand hard, and once you drop thru that the pine will be pretty soft. So gouging is a valid concern. "IF" you can use an adhesive remover as messy as it is may benifit the overall project and have easier sanding,,,and more consistant sanding. Some soft wood flooring like that has huge groove marks just from wear in the high wear areas,,,,like stair treads,,,,walkways etc.
As nice as this all sounds maybe the best solution to this soft basic underlayment would be a laminate overlay,or even real hardwood over top. Reason I say that is your repair holes go away. IF your looking for that pine look then repairing and refinish is best route.
MOST of those type floors were found in second story bedroom areas, is yours? Or floored attics (maybe finished off after the fact later)
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
Yep it's a second story. I'm highly concerned about asbestos and lead paint so I need to figure that out first.
I'm leaning towards painting them black. That way I just have to sand off most of the glue/paint which should be able to be done with out a drum sander (I think). I think if I poly'ed them well enough they'd stand up to a lot. Again, need to test before I go sanding anything which I'm not excited about.
Investor · Harker Heights, TX · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 34 votes
10y
arrgggh! painting wood floors! Please see (almost any) episode of Rehab Addict. Drum sander and poly can make these floors look amazing. Your floors aren't in bad shape at all.
Personally, I'd hire that out, leave the drum sanders to experienced operators.
arrgggh! painting wood floors! Please see (almost any) episode of Rehab Addict. Drum sander and poly can make these floors look amazing. Your floors aren't in bad shape at all.
Personally, I'd hire that out, leave the drum sanders to experienced operators.
This is a duplex that I'm going to end up renting out to college students. I'm not going to pay $2-4 per sqft to refinish wood floors when I can repaint them for a few hundred. I agree refinishing would look way better but to me, if I can't do it myself, it's not worth it.
Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
10y
Paint will be your cheapest option. Lowes has $17/gal grey gloss oil-based paint or you could go with the $27/gal black or brown gloss rustoleum oil-based paint. Another cheap option would be laminate or vinyl floor. The vinyl floor might last longer but can be more labor intensive because the non-click variety are usually smaller pieces and they recommend luan underneath to adhere correctly.
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
I've thought about laminate and vinyl. I had laminate in a previous home and hated how it chips so easily and then you have to tear up a lot of the floor to replace the one piece. I can't imagine doing that in a rental every time someone moves out. Maybe it was cheap stuff? From reading other forums, vinyl seems unpopular here because it wears out quickly too and will peel away. I'd definitely have to lay down some sort of board (odsb) which would be another cost/time eater. However, either of those options helps me avoid dealing with any contaminants on the wood.
Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
10y
Sounds like paint is the way to go and much less labor intensive than refinishing. I'd tape off the trim and brush the perimeter with a large brush and then roll the rest.
Laminates are getting better and a decent laminate will probably last many years if the subfloor is fairly even. I've purchased it for as low as 0.29/sqft.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
So below are two pictures of the fir floor we have. One was refinished and professionally repaired with a section of wood replace and one was refinished by us. One had been painted and one not. Can you tell the difference? In places they were beat up as yours are. I think the professional person was worth what we paid given the time it took,we also could not have replaced a floor section like he did. You can't tell if you don't know where it was replaced. He used deck boards cut to the right width rather then flooring for the replacement so the pieces/coloring matched. Since you are going to need to replace boards even if you paint covering with something else may be cheaper. Paint will need to be redone on every student turnover, I have some experience with students. You might split the difference by refinishing common area and painting bedrooms, but you also have to remove current finish if you don't cover it due to asbestos/lead. How much the nails come up matter as to whether you can refinish too. For the most part we used a drum sander and edger. The hardest part was lint free, level poly. Use non-gloss finish. Good Luck
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
Does anyone know if Zinnser BIN would go right over existing paint just fine as long as it's not dusty or anything? This would help me avoid the lead paint issue.
Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 5 votes
10y
Zinnser bin says on the can not to use on large areas as it becomes brittle in that case. It cracks and doesn't hold up. Read the can to get specific. But I had a smoker unit that I bit everything and it has held up so far. Only been a few months though..... Best luck
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
10y
I did some floors in similar shape , sorry no pics , but the nails tore up the sandpaper on the drum sander real quick , I cut and patched in some pine boards that were laying around , the glue we heated with a heat gun and scraped first . I didnt care about gouging , I banged on the floor with a hammer , the distressed look . I finished them with 3 coats of gloss poly . They looked good
I did some floors in similar shape , sorry no pics , but the nails tore up the sandpaper on the drum sander real quick , I cut and patched in some pine boards that were laying around , the glue we heated with a heat gun and scraped first . I didnt care about gouging , I banged on the floor with a hammer , the distressed look . I finished them with 3 coats of gloss poly . They looked good
Did yours have any existing paint on them? If so did you just sand it off?
Just vacuum or sweep the floors up and remove staples/nails as much as you can. Hit it once with a mop if you'd like and let it dry. Paint the floors with gloss Rustoleum paint or the Lowes oil-based utility/floor paint. You shouldn't have to prime or sand it first if the floors are already pretty worn.
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
they're worn but they also have paint on them. I'm afraid a new paint won't stick without a prime first. Also I'd like to cover up the current paint incase it contains lead. Anyone know if Zinsser BIN will stick fine?
I did some floors in similar shape , sorry no pics , but the nails tore up the sandpaper on the drum sander real quick , I cut and patched in some pine boards that were laying around , the glue we heated with a heat gun and scraped first . I didnt care about gouging , I banged on the floor with a hammer , the distressed look . I finished them with 3 coats of gloss poly . They looked good
Did yours have any existing paint on them? If so did you just sand it off?
Some paint , not the majority of the floor . I sanded but I went for the rustic distressed look . One thing you have to realize , people will put down throw rugs , furniture , etc. You wont see much of the floor unless the room is empty .
arrgggh! painting wood floors! Please see (almost any) episode of Rehab Addict.
Steady, now.
Painting wood floors is not necessarily somehow anti-historical, and would not necessarily be inappropriate. Expensive species such as Oak, Maple, Hickory, Walnut, etc., were typically naturally finished. However, many circa-1900 midwest houses, as an example, originally had painted, Southern yellow pine floors -- faux and decorative floor paint techniques were not at all uncommon in lieu of more expensive materials.
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
So I tried removing some of the mastic and glue with Citristrip last night. The black mastic came off fine but the gray adhesive did not. And both are A LOT of work. I'm not sure it's worth it. Leaning towards laminate now. I might try and see if Mineral Spirits or Acetone will cut through the gray stuff tonight. It's very thick in some spots though.
Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
If you decide to refinish or paint the floor I would not suggest using ANY product that will attempt to file the gaps between the boards or finish that will attempt to make the floor look like one piece. The boards are not tongue and grove and will move independently no matter what you do.
Also always try water as the first solvent for old adhesive. I have seen people try all kinds of chemicals before they find out the glue is water soluble.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Boiling water and a scrapper if you are using water and don't care so much on the finish. There is no dust then too. Peel away is a good spot remover for lead paint. When I have used it in this way you paint the paste on and wait for the color change and scrape. If you wait for it to dry it is less messy but sometimes adheres in the grooves more.
There is something called Peel stop that they used on the house due to lead but it is not recommended for floors.
Check if you will pass the lead regs with painted floors. Here I would not pass my lead test if I had painted floors as they are an impact/friction surface. They just assume the paint is lead.
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2014 · 42 posts · 10 votes
10y
So I ended up just buying Kilz Latex Hidz-All primer/sealer and then valspar latex porch/floor paint. I'm getting a lot of spots where the stain/woodgrain is showing through, ugh. I'm thinking I'll coat the entire floor in Kilz Original (which is what I wanted to do but the big-box store suggested latex). I'm even considering tinting the Kilz to use it as my coloration and then using a clear water-based poly on top and eliminating my need for paint at all. Not sure if that would work well though...