Thinking of self managing rehab property

Thinking of self managing rehab property

Real Estate Consultant · Brick, NJ · Member since 2011 · 91 posts · 7 votes

I just met with three different sets of general contractors to get an idea on the costs associated with the rehab, and I wound up with three completely different estimates. Contractor A gave the property a good walk through, but seemed more of a handy-man fix it kind of guy, but didn't write anything down and didn't give me any idea on price. Contractor B had the type of vehicle you might expect an established contractor to have, spent a substantial amount of time in the place, but missed things that seemed obvious to me, and I don't have much experience in the construction field. Contractor B gave me a ballpark of 70-100k and when I mentioned flooring options he told me that he "forgot" about flooring. Contractor C looked at the property for less than 5 minutes, didn't seem interested, but told me he used to flip homes until the market softened and now works for banks handling their REO rehabs and at a minimum it would cost 125k. A little background on the property, its extremely old, unknown the year it was built, but it was the house my grandfather grew up in and was left to a cousin who unfortunately couldn't maintain the property. Everything would need to be gutted and the layout redesigned, floor joists are an issue that need to be corrected, as the floors are sagging and there are cracks in the beams, soup to nuts the house needs it all except for a roof which was recently done and the siding just needs to be patched up. I'd probably agree that it would be on the higher end near 125k, but I'm the type that likes to deal with someone who writes things down and calculates, not just winging it on site after barely inspecting it. I'm considering hiring all the trades to come in myself and not pay someone for managing the work being done. I have time on my side because I believe I can work out seller financing with the executor of the estate and then use my own cash to rehab the property. It is a tremendous undertaking, but I didn't get the sense from these three contractors that they'd have my best interest at heart at the end of the day. I don't mind paying a premium for work, but none of them won me over on their business acumen. Shopping for skilled labor in my opinion would allow me to limit my exposure to bad work, and then I can take it one step at a time. Sorry for the long post, but interested to see what everyone in the BP Community thinks!

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Real Estate Agent/Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y

@Brian Buckley

Most people here would say to interview a MINIMUM of 3 GC's before making a decision, but I'd suggest you try to find a few more. The thing with self managing is that you seem to be someone who is a fan of the details (as am I) and you'd probably want to interview a few subs for each trade as well rather than just accepting the first guy you find. If that's the case, you'd need to interview 3 tile guys, 3 drywall guys, 3 electricians, 3 plumbers, etc. to be as thorough as possible. If you have patience and the proper amount of trade-scheduling skills, then being your own GC can work. Also keep in mind that in some states only a licensed GC can pull permits and I can tell you're going to need quite a few permits and you'd also need to be present for inspections since you are managing the project. Good help is hard to find and you may need to look a little harder or make sure you have all your ducks in a row to manage a project of that scope. A 125k project requires a ton of material, people, and moving parts. Best of luck with the project.

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  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    When starting out, I am a big fan of (if you have the time and not a 9-5 job) doing it with subs and learning from the mistakes you WILL make. That said, I also ageee with @Kuba F. that a full gut rehab like this one could get a rookie in trouble going at it alone. Perhaps an experienced project manager would be in order here. I would also recommend that you create a "scope of work" sheet that itemizes each and every item you wish to complete and whenever possible, include the itemized finished materials selections snthat you can get the most accurate quote from either a GC or several subs.

    If you hire a GC but stay involved (which I highly recommend), try and arrange for most materials to be purchased by you directly and avoid that mark up by the GC. 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Brick, NJ · Member since 2011 · 91 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Will Barnard that's what I was considering doing. Although I do have a full time job outside of real estate, I won't be under as much of a time constraint, because I'll be funding the project with my own money and not paying any interest or points on loans. Whether I find a GC or project manager with whom I feel comfortable doing business with, I'll still be very involved in the process, because in my mind it's the best way to learn anything new. In my triplex that I own I've interviewed and done business with numerous subs to handle different projects. Obviously a project like this is unlike smaller construction and maintenance bids I've dealt with, but I still want to be very hands on regardless.
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Regarding the fact that it is all your capital and no loan interest due, you still want to maintain a healthy cash on cash return so whatever you choose, do not get complacent or allow wasted time, time is your enemy even when you are all cash no leverage.

    Good luck to you and keep the great questions coming.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Brick, NJ · Member since 2011 · 91 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Will Barnard great point about cash on cash return, I certainly don't want to leave my cash in the deal for too long. I was actually thinking about going into the towns building department and try to make contacts within, asking as many questions as I can about permits, inspections needed and general process within the town. Not sure if that would be advised, but I like to look for every possible angle that might present a hurdle, and how I can overcome it.
  • Real Estate Investor · Montclair, NJ · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 13 votes
    9y
    GC's will not generate a line itemized detailed scope of work without a commitment from the client. Whether it's 10 minutes or an hour the results are usually the same. This is what you get for expecting free price quotes for rehab projects. A budget for rehab projects should be taken just as seriously and not by someone whom knows that your fishing. GC's give you the projected range to account for your budget then they work backwards. If you need assistance on setting up procurement for your business or great questions to ask potential contractors. I'd be happy to assist you or seek the advice of a local investor in your market not only for referrals but to pick there brains on establishing relationships with the local GC's, sub contractors, and tradesmen.
  • Real Estate Investor · Montclair, NJ · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 13 votes
    9y
    Brian Buckley, GC's will not generate a line itemized detailed scope of work without a commitment from the client. Whether it's 10 minutes or an hour the results are usually the same. This is what you get for expecting free price quotes for rehab projects. A budget for rehab projects should be taken just as seriously and not by someone whom knows that your fishing. GC's give you the projected range to account for your budget then they work backwards. If you need assistance on setting up procurement for your business or great questions to ask potential contractors. I'd be happy to assist you or seek the advice of a local investor in your market not only for referrals but to pick there brains on establishing relationships with the local GC's, sub contractors, and tradesmen.,
  • Real Estate Investor · Montclair, NJ · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 13 votes
    9y
    Brian Buckley , It sounds to me as if you synonymously want the service of a PM from your GC. Although this discussion is interesting your next post should probably be is to have the BP community share there thoughts on the differences of a Project Manager/ Construction Manager vs. General Contractor
  • Specialist · Delran, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 951 votes
    9y

    Just throwing this out there but have you considered hiring a knowledge inspector to walk the property with you and help give you an idea of what may need to be done that you may not realize? Maybe with their experience they would help you recognize items that should go into your SOW that you wouldn't have considered on your own.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Brick, NJ · Member since 2011 · 91 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    @Ricky Butler the spirit of my initial post was really just to vent and discuss the value of building a good team.  I wouldn't expect a GC, or anyone for that matter, to come in and tell me what I should do with a property.  I really enjoy real estate for the creativity, among other things, but I guess I was just a little taken aback when I got such varying degrees of prices, and varying degrees of communication from all three.  The house ultimately has to be my vision, especially since it will be my money, but it was an interesting first glance at vetting GC's.  @Odie Ayaga interesting enough that you mentioned that.  My father is a licensed home inspector in western New York and is coming down in a few days and we are going to go through the place again.  I also have some family members I can turn to for professional trades advice, which I'd also like to bring in for their insight as well.  Great points everyone!

  • Real Estate Investor · Montclair, NJ · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 13 votes
    9y
    Brian Buckley , Yeah I vent & Ramble sometimes as well. Sometimes you just have to get it out. I just want you to Win !!! Winners Win !!!
  • Real Estate Consultant · Brick, NJ · Member since 2011 · 91 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    I just wanted to update everyone and thank you all for your advice and insight. I wasn't able to come to terms with my cousin on the property, which is probably a sign that it wasn't the right project for me. Thanks again everyone!
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