Flip deal DOA due to AE Flood Zoning

Flip deal DOA due to AE Flood Zoning

Danbury, NH · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 21 votes

So first, I'm new; keep that in mind.

Started direct mail marketing 2 months ago and have sifted out a couple leads and saw a couple houses. As of yesterday, I was about to get my first contract signed. I have negotiated with the seller and we finally arrived at an agreeable price. The deal was ok - buy it for 79k, 4-6 week rehab of about 25-30k, and an ARV of about 150-155k. The house is in a good town, but it's on a private road. The neighborhood has some very nice houses on the ends of the road but drops in quality fast as you heads towards the middle, the subject house was right at the end of the nice house area. It was a 3/1 but the seller's midway through converting it to a 2/2 and there isn't a clear path back to 3/1 or up to 3/2. Even with 2 bedrooms though, I'm confident in my numbers on the ARV so I kept going.

In our last discussion, the seller mentioned a flood insurance policy which I immediately registered as a problem. Followup questions led to her telling me she was paying about $900/yr for coverage.  Not knowing a ton about flood insurance issues, I assumed this was a small issue and used it in part to negotiate her down from the 125k her realtor told her she could get as-is.  

Although later due diligence would have caught this, and although we had a verbally agreed-to deal, I decided to contact my insurance agent. She came back with a quote of $2260 based on a value of 100k. Now the problem is getting bigger. Once she adjusts the value to the ARV of 155k, I'll probably be closer to $3000 or worse.

The air immediately starts seeping out of my balloon.  Things were going so well.  I direct-mailed people, I followed up on calls, I negotiated a deal, I started planning my answers to the Famous Four...it was all coming together.

But now I'm cutting it off.  I'll wait till I have the final numbers from my agent to save some face with the seller and help her understand what she'll be up against if she continues with the property.   General consensus seems to be that flipping in a flood-zone can result in longer holding times after rehab.  Looking at the numbers, I think once you factor in the additional flood insurance, it effectively drives my comps down by $200/$300 in mortgage affordability. Lets face it, it's a 150k home on a poor-man's river...nobody's going to just eat that extra monthly cost.  Add to that that flood zone adjustments and resultant premiums seem to be on the upswing, so the new owner would be screwed in the long-term.  People will avoid my fresh flip sight-unseen.

I searched around the forums for awhile before making my decision. Hopefully my story will help somebody else as others helped me.  I've now added flood insurance to my initial vetting rather than leaving it as just a contingency on the PSA.

I don't believe in investing in the greater fool theory, and I think I'm too early in building my  business to risk being stuck with an albatross tying up my money, eating at me with stress and holding costs, and potentially sinking my ship. I'll wait for a better deal.  More time to come up with my Famous Four answers anyway.  

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  • Ormond Beach , FL · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 223 votes
    9y

    I have flood insurance on my personal home and it costs me $600 a year. I thought that FEMA regulates flood policies and everyone pays the same. I cold be wrong, but you could also be getting bad info from your agent. Might be with a second opinion.

  • Danbury, NH · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    I'm waiting on the seller to provide a copy of the policy and elevation certificate.  If things are materially different I'll pursue further and update the post.   What zone are you in? This property is AE.

  • Investor · Las Vegas. Jacksonville, Bay Area Ca, Nv, Ca, Fl · Member since 2015 · 511 posts · 220 votes
    9y

    @Stephen Polizzi and @Eugene Kemp, I have a property on the market in Florida that is a flood zone AE. The flood insurance on it is $2112. I got such a good deal on the property I bought it knowing the high insurance will hurt the buyer pool. But's that's the trade off for being waterfront. 

  • Jeffersonville, IN · Member since 2016 · 36 posts · 20 votes
    9y
    Due to the National Flood Insurance Program being massively in debt due to Hurricane Katrina, Sandy etc, Congress has started phasing out the subsidies for flood insurance - this just started last year. You can expect the flood insurance to go up over the next several years for most properties.
  • Jupiter, FL · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    @Bryan Wallace is right. The system has quite a bit of debt and there are a ton of political issues involved. Premiums have risen.  There are however methods of potentially reducing premiums that are site specific. Foundation flood vents in certain circumstances can do this along with fill, a LOMA and so on. Again all of this varies from location to location. Zones like AE will of course have higher premiums than other zones however the insurance is more important when floods pose more risk. 

    Full disclosure I work for a leading flood mitigation company nationally at the time this is written. We work to reduce premiums through mitigation with items like our foundation flood vents among other things. We also have a flood insurance division.

  • Homeowner · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 358 posts · 65 votes
    9y

    Such a terrible fact: 44% people get everything free from the socialist style government but charge hard working people to death on everything, even a flood insurance system failed.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I agree that checking flood zone should be of primary concern before making any offer, not left for contingency, and it's usually an easy check of the latest flood map available online.  I just wanted to add that even if tax records state AE, check actual map. Many properties near us state Zone AE in tax records, but when you see the actual flood map, AE ends nearer the water with the building actually on higher ground, in X, so no flood insurance requirement. If, however, even one corner of the building, even attached garage, is in AE, then a lender will likely require flood insurance. 

  • Danbury, NH · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    @Lynn McGeein The FEMA map shows it in well within zone AE, good tip though.

    @Robert Rayford Agreed. Without some sort of water feature to off-set this monthly bill, I can't see the comps holding up on this deal.

    Final quote came in at $2334/year for 155k house, 2k deductible, AE zone.

  • Danbury, NH · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    Thanks for the input everyone.

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