Foundation repair cause to walk away from possible good buy ?
Real Estate Agent · Warrior Run, PA · Member since 2016 · 341 posts · 146 votes
I have my eye on a property in which the foundation on one side of the duplex has crumbled due to run off from the hill to the rear of the building.
So much so the kitchen floor towards the back of the house sank in about 6 or so inches. The cabinets and stove are sunk in. Basement has basically a hole in the wall in just that section.
Obviously a French drain system would need to be installed outside. But the actual repair of the foundation? I have no idea if it’s 5k or 50k. That could obviously break the deal.
While I was at the property another investor was there too and once he saw that he just left. I kept looking. Other side of duplex is in good condition and could just use a face lift. Highly developing area.
Should I walk away because Of foundation issues.
@Nicholas Weckstein - Just keep in mind there is more to foundation repairs than just the foundation. Here is what I collected as "warnings" or lessons (from various sources and some experienced myself) about foundation problems and/or repairs:
1. If you have brick on the exterior, you might have to do tuckpointing. $$$
2. If you have tiles inside, the tiles will crack. And if they have to drill holes for interior piers, you pretty much will have to replace the entire flooring. $$$$
3. You'll have drywall cracks, so you should factor in drywall repairs and repainting. $$$
4. If the doors were adjusted to a crooked foundation, you might need to readjust or even buy new doors. $$$
5. A hydrostatic plumbing test is recommended to be performed by a licensed plumber post Foundation work. Plumbing leaks may void warranty. Old houses have cast iron pipers that will disintegrate (because of age and/or foundation shift). You'll have to replace all plumbing at that point. $$$$
6. Depending on how bad is the foundation state (how many inches you have to correct), is very possible the sewer line will disconnect/break in the horizontal portions. Repairing that requires tunneling, a repair that could be very expensive. $$$$
7. If the driveway- garage differential is big (for example, the driveway slab is sunken and you need to raise the house, you'll end up with an even bigger gap after repair) you might need to replace the driveway. $$$$
8. If you are dealing with an addition built on 12" beams (or if the original foundation is old and not built to current standards), the repair company might not be able to push the piers down to refusal depth or psi due to the beam not taking the load, thus leveling it, but not guaranteeing it will not continue to move in the future, thus not providing warranty.
9. The owner may be required to provide a structural engineers evaluation prior to warranty work.
10. Read the fine print in the foundation repair contract: Damages to the property, interior and exterior as a result of the foundation movement are not covered, during and after works completion. This usually includes but is not limited to PLUMBING, flooring, landscape, utility lines and masonry. The foundation repair does not cover any repairs that may be needed to the home during and after works completion. And you'll have new cracks in unexpected places, old cracks that will not close, but instead enlarge. My suggestion is to add at least 25% to the cost of the foundation repair as mitigation to the problems that will come from the foundation repair.
11. The foundation repair company salespeople (and even owners, in some case) of structure companies are not engineers and though they may be right most of the time, there will be gaps in their assumptions. Unless it's a small job with an obvious solution, get an engineer ($250+) to look at it and sketch up a scope of work for a contractor to do.
12. Many foundation problems have water as a root cause - be that infiltration in a crawl space, drainage around the site, cracked sewer line or water line. Before solving the foundation you might want to get to the root cause of the foundation issue and resolve it, otherwise you might repair the foundation for nothing.
13. If you repair the foundation on only select places, don't be surprised if the other sides will suddenly start "working". If the house is stabilized on one side, you might get cracks in the other side soon after. In other words, if you do a foundation repair, it's better to get the whole house stabilized and the warranty for the whole house.
Hey Nicholas,
It all comes down to the numbers. Find out from a foundation and drainage expert the true cost and buy the property accordingly.
However, keep in mind this is a project in itself. Therefore not only do you have to factor in the money to correct this issue, but also the time spent overseeing the project. From the way you are describing it, you won't be able to really rent out any part of it until it's done.
Hope this helps!
Rick
@Rick Albert thank you for your reply. And as an edit to my original post.
I should mention that the other side is fine. And rented. It just seems to be one side of the duplex.
Then it might be interesting to consider. Look at other duplexes to explore options. Whenever I'm in negotiations with the request for repairs, I always look at other options so my buyers know the consequences should they fall out of contract.
@Nicholas Weckstein - Just keep in mind there is more to foundation repairs than just the foundation. Here is what I collected as "warnings" or lessons (from various sources and some experienced myself) about foundation problems and/or repairs:
1. If you have brick on the exterior, you might have to do tuckpointing. $$$
2. If you have tiles inside, the tiles will crack. And if they have to drill holes for interior piers, you pretty much will have to replace the entire flooring. $$$$
3. You'll have drywall cracks, so you should factor in drywall repairs and repainting. $$$
4. If the doors were adjusted to a crooked foundation, you might need to readjust or even buy new doors. $$$
5. A hydrostatic plumbing test is recommended to be performed by a licensed plumber post Foundation work. Plumbing leaks may void warranty. Old houses have cast iron pipers that will disintegrate (because of age and/or foundation shift). You'll have to replace all plumbing at that point. $$$$
6. Depending on how bad is the foundation state (how many inches you have to correct), is very possible the sewer line will disconnect/break in the horizontal portions. Repairing that requires tunneling, a repair that could be very expensive. $$$$
7. If the driveway- garage differential is big (for example, the driveway slab is sunken and you need to raise the house, you'll end up with an even bigger gap after repair) you might need to replace the driveway. $$$$
8. If you are dealing with an addition built on 12" beams (or if the original foundation is old and not built to current standards), the repair company might not be able to push the piers down to refusal depth or psi due to the beam not taking the load, thus leveling it, but not guaranteeing it will not continue to move in the future, thus not providing warranty.
9. The owner may be required to provide a structural engineers evaluation prior to warranty work.
10. Read the fine print in the foundation repair contract: Damages to the property, interior and exterior as a result of the foundation movement are not covered, during and after works completion. This usually includes but is not limited to PLUMBING, flooring, landscape, utility lines and masonry. The foundation repair does not cover any repairs that may be needed to the home during and after works completion. And you'll have new cracks in unexpected places, old cracks that will not close, but instead enlarge. My suggestion is to add at least 25% to the cost of the foundation repair as mitigation to the problems that will come from the foundation repair.
11. The foundation repair company salespeople (and even owners, in some case) of structure companies are not engineers and though they may be right most of the time, there will be gaps in their assumptions. Unless it's a small job with an obvious solution, get an engineer ($250+) to look at it and sketch up a scope of work for a contractor to do.
12. Many foundation problems have water as a root cause - be that infiltration in a crawl space, drainage around the site, cracked sewer line or water line. Before solving the foundation you might want to get to the root cause of the foundation issue and resolve it, otherwise you might repair the foundation for nothing.
13. If you repair the foundation on only select places, don't be surprised if the other sides will suddenly start "working". If the house is stabilized on one side, you might get cracks in the other side soon after. In other words, if you do a foundation repair, it's better to get the whole house stabilized and the warranty for the whole house.
@Costin I. excellent answer regarding all of the extra factors to account for involving foundation repair. There is so much more involved than just repairing the foundation.
Costin gave a great summary. Only thing I would add to the other things that may need to be fixed when the foundation is repaired is Windows! I had a house leveled and many of the newer windows that were installed prior to the leveling cracked.
Great and thorough answer by @Costin I.
@Nicholas Weckstein Foundation repairs are very tricky. I'm a structural engineer and in this part of Texas we usually have slab on grade without basements because we typically have expansive soils. Foundation repairs here are hit or miss. Costin is right, if you fix one area, you may just transfer the problem to somewhere else. I'm not sure how much runoff you have from the hill but it may take significantly more than just a french drain. You likely also have other damaged areas that are not currently visible. I wouldnt say its an absolute no-go, but know that it can get very expensive. If you drill piers under the whole house, I've seen that cost around 100k. I've also seen a few perimeter piers installed for 2k for some cracked bricks. Despite the cost, neither of them guarantee no future issues or effectiveness. Get a geotechnical engineer or civil engineer to evaluate the soil and foundation. Definitely increase your cost but I would move that decimal up, more like 2-3x. Expect to find more as you address the issue, especially with a cave in like that. That is significant, dont underestimate its possibilities.