Toledo Lead Paint Law...Halted for the THIRD Time

Toledo Lead Paint Law...Halted for the THIRD Time

Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/city/2020/06/26/kapszukiewicz-administration-delays-lead-safe-housing-enforcement-citing-coronavirus/stories/20200626079


The latest and greatest on the Toledo Lead Ordinance. The 2019 declaration of a new lead ordinance which would be enforced by Toledo's Dept of Neighborhoods (not the County Health Dept as the ~2016 version was going to be) has been officially ended. 

The deadline for compliance was at the end of this month but there hadn't been any publicity, publication, or out reach. Check the BP archives back in February 2020 I requested a lead certification for a property and was blatantly told by our Dept of Neighborhoods that there was no certificate, process for inspection, nor staff on hand forming any department as of yet.

What Does Andrew Think? The City will begin discussion late this year and there is a possibility they will have the momentum to get it right this time. I know the topic is largely political so factor our mayor is up for election in 2021 so the program's future will rest on the goodwill generated through the program.

I hope any program affects ALL rental properties not units 1-4 in size (children are exposed to lead in all properties not just small ones) followed by ALL HOMES (children are exposed where lead is present - old homes - not just landlord rented ones). I hope they simplify the process for visual peeling paint as the initial inspection and get away from the expense and hassle of wipe tests. I will continue to provide a voice for property managers and investors in Toledo to make a lead program successful. 

I do think a program is coming, it's just a matter of time for Toledo to get the traction to put a program into place and begin friendly education and grant programs followed by firm language and eventual fines and enforcement. 

I see a lead paint program as a necessity to force landlords to update their properties, many owners will have to decide if they will re-paint or install vinyl siding/windows or dump their properties to new owners who will. (My personal portfolio has been aggressively installing vinyl siding, soffit, fascia, and using waterproof laminate flooring over any painted ones. Whenever the lead ordinance occurs I won't have an uphill battle, nor will I have reporters documenting blighted properties I am responsible for)

Conclusion - whenever a lead ordinance finally does come into effect and age through to enforcement Toledo real estate will suffer in the most difficult neighborhoods. Those of us who see that as a buying opportunity will displace those who are a hazard to our community and the public AND the new owners will benefit.

In the mean time hunker down as Covid spikes again and remember the communicating on Bigger Pockets and with your favorite Toledo property manager are safe ways to develop your real estate skills while staying safe!

(Please post if anyone has an update on Cleveland/Akron/Columbus/Cincinnati lead paint program ordinances, I'd be curious if we have a state-wide delay)

9Reply
532 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
4y

I am with @Andrew Fidler and I don't think this is going away. The optics of the situation and its effect on politicians to now back off of this after all the rhetoric they whipped up is impossible. I believe the courts will eventually side with the city, BUT the question at hand is what does this look like after all that comes down. I have said all along if the city wants a law like this then EVERYBODY goes into the pot. Apartments, homeowners, etc. Not just one small select group of property owners. I have personally had issues with houses I was working on where the property next door had peeling paint but because they were an owner occupant they didn't have to address the issue. My property would have paint blowing into the yard that I had to clean up. If someone in my property were to have lead poisoning and the health department were called in I would be the only one under the microscope. The peeling paint coming off the neighbor's house wouldn't even be a factor in the investigation, discussion, and the lawsuits that would follow even if it was pointed out this could be the source of the problem. Therefore the only way to be fair is EVERYONE must comply or nobody.

I am all for improving housing, but not as an unfunded mandate that is thrown against only one group of property owners while ignoring all the other types of property owners (apartments & owner-occupants) and factors (lead pipes still in city water lines) that could go into the lead problem. Either we have an honest discussion about the problem as a whole and EVERYONE contributes to the solution or we let things stay as they are until EVERYONE is ready to be involved. Housing providers didn't create this problem over night by themselves. This has been a long time coming and it needs to be a community solution with every property involved, an efficient and effective inspection system that is fair, and most importantly A LOT of money to help property owners become compliant without bankrupting them. It is that last piece that will be the most problematic. Government is great at issuing mandates and fines to enforce, but not quite so good at providing funding to help with those mandates.

Andrew brings up another good point about the unintended consequences of this law if it is allowed to stand exactly as it is right now. This law was modeled after Rochester New York, where today the blighted housing stock stands at 35% and rising. Property owners have simply thrown up their hands and walked away and now you have a decreased supply of rentals and an increase in blighted and abandoned properties that are turning into eye sores and problems. That will likely happen in Toledo because as Andrew pointed out, putting in a $30K investment into a $20K house and renting it for $400 per month simply won't work. So, one of two things will happen. The property will become abandoned and eventually have to torn down or an investor will put the $30K in, but now it will rent for double or more and push all the people that can't afford that rent away. Where they will go is anyone's guess. It has happened in other cities and progrssives have a name for it, they call it gentrfying and say the word with venom as if the people investing caused the problem. Nope, laws like this are what will eventually create it assuming it doesn't go the other way and just stay an abandoned, blighted, and crime ridden mess.

I know of several areas in Columbus that gentrifying has occured and some of those previously blighted and run down neighborhoods are now posh upper middle class areas. Where the people that used to live there went I am not sure of, but they couldn't afford to stay there. Unfortunately I am not sure Toledo will go that route. We don't have a dynamic and growing economy as Columbus does, we arent the state capital, and we don't have any modern industries coming in to provide jobs and higher incomes that would push up the need for housing to improve in those poorer areas of Toledo. I could be wrong and I hope I am. I would love to see the entire city improve, but I am just not convinced that is where this will go.

This is a big problem that will involve everyone if we want to find a true solution. Time will tell if we get there. 

See this reply in the discussion

100 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    4y

    https://www.toledoblade.com/lo...

    Well, if the Toledo market hasn't had enough of two prior ordinances and one faceplant in court, we have yet another twist with the Toledo Lead Safe Ordinance.

    As stated above, Toledo leadership decided on June 1st to make a newscast declaring that the 2020 lead ordinance deadline of June 30, 2022 was unchanged after Covid and 18 months of inaction from the city and threatened a $10,000 fine for failure to comply by the deadline looming 30 days away.

    Well, today we have an article announcing a lawsuit has again been filed against the city, and it must be pretty damning because the city has immediately announced they will not enforce their deadline until August 1st (30 day reprieve).

    According to the news article today, we are being told the lead ordinance is still alive and well but enforcement simply isn't going into effect for a while.

    What am I personally doing? I'm getting my properties inspected. It's not a real financial crisis unless you have peeling paint everywhere. I've seen this coming for close to a decade, so my portfolio contains a minimum of painted exteriors, painted soffits, original windows, etc. and we’ve been renovating accordingly (vinyl siding, etc).

    What remains clear is that the ordinance isn’t going away, even though implementation deadlines are presently fluctuating. The lawsuit will hopefully help fix some of the administrative problems with the ordinance’s implementation… but the ordinance is here to stay and will need to be complied with.

    I am most curious how this will affect our lower-end neighborhoods: houses with peeling wood siding and soffit/fascia. These properties have always been challenging, but curious how things will proceed with purchasers knowing that a $30k investment is required on a $20k house. I am seeing prompt compliance within the higher-value areas of Phase 1, and some foot dragging in the poorer areas. The true purpose of the ordinance won't be realized until those property owners who avoid or refuse compliance are challenged to comply.

    At the end of the day, having Lead Safe properties improves and preserves the health of our community's children. In my opinion, those who maintain their properties are the same ones who read the news and comply as ordinances occur. We won't have a comprehensive improvement in our children's health, nor the quality of our most challenged neighborhoods, until the ordinance moves beyond those who have now complied through several iterations. Once the ordinance can finally hold our "Catch-22 Housing Providers" accountable we will see a change in the housing stock, rent rate, and the ultimate goal, the lead blood level of the city's children.

    (Catch-22 is described in prior posts...it's a $400 property in a $750 neighborhood where the family is living in unsafe or unsanitary conditions and cannot afford to exercise their right to complain or move. If someone like LaPlante Real Estate takes the property over, $40k in repair will be conducted and the property will promptly rent for $795 potentially forcing the family out. Ultimately the elimination of Catch-22 properties is the goal of the ordinance but will result in higher rent rates, increased property values, and forcing more families onto rental assistance.)

  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    4y

    Text of the article for those of us who have no interest in paying the Toledo Blade for access...

    https://www.toledoblade.com/lo...

    A civil lawsuit seeking to block Toledo’s lead ordinance has forced the city to push back its deadline for residential properties to be certified as lead safe as landlords face the potential of $10,000 fines.

    After a similar 2016 ordinance was struck down by the court system, Mayor Wade Kapszukiewicz worked with city council to craft an updated version of the Toledo Lead Ordinance, which then passed in December, 2020.

    The ordinance requires that owners of 1-4-unit residential rental properties or family childcare homes built before 1978 have their property inspected and certified lead-safe, as well as register their property with the county auditor. Inspections must be completed by a local lead inspector who visually inspects the interior and exterior of the property and collects dust wipes to ensure it’s up to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards.

    The lawsuit was filed Monday in Lucas County Common Pleas Court.

    The city has agreed to not enforce the lead paint ordinance until Aug. 1 after the original deadline to get certified and register properties with the Lucas County auditor was June 30. The ordinance would apply to about 6,000 Toledo properties.

    Gretchen DeBacker, the city’s director of marketing and communications, said that the city is still actively working to resolve the issues that have been raised in the complaint.

    “The parties have agreed to meet and try to resolve issues that are potentially outstanding in the plaintiff’s claim and trying to avoid any protracted litigation,” she said.

    Ms. DeBacker added that even with the deadline, the ordinance “is going to be implemented.”

    “Residents and landlords are encouraged to still take steps to ensure that their properties are lead safe and begin the process,” she said.

    Judge Gary Cook of Lucas County Court of Common Pleas signed a consent order on Tuesday confirming the deadline extension. The plaintiff, listed as Charmarlyn Strong of Toledo, has agreed not to pursue a temporary restraining order hearing.

    Her representation, Perrysburg-based attorney Andrew Mayle, said that he does not believe that the ordinance should be enforced at all, but that the parties agreed that the lawsuit does not need “immediate attention from the court” if the ordinance is not enforced.

    Mr. Mayle said that the lawsuit was filed in an effort to bring issues forward before enforcement of the ordinance began.

    “We could have sat back and just not complied and waited for them to try to cite somebody and raise this then, but we didn’t think that was the right way to go about it,” Mr. Mayle said. “We just wanted to be upfront. We asked the city to fix it themselves, they did not, so we filed our lawsuit.”

    The city and the Toledo-Lucas County Board of Health are the listed defendants.

    Along with the complaint Mr. Mayle included a letter from himself to Toledo law director Dale Emch dated for June 21. It asks the city to “restrain the abuse of Toledo’s corporate powers.”

    The letter goes on to list three primary issues being alleged with the ordinance: there is no “coherent” penalty for violations, it assumes the health department has “statutory powers” that it does not, and that it offends the “exclusive jurisdiction” of the Toledo Municipal Court. Mr. Mayle called the ordinance a case of “legislative malpractice”.

    “If this is truly a public health issue, why are most residences being left out? Why are owner-occupied [units] being left out? Why are big apartment units being left out?” he said. “We think if they’re going to do this to be a level playing field, just make everyone play by the same rules.”

    Although there is only one plaintiff listed in the complaint, Mr. Mayle said that the ordinance would likely impact “hundreds or thousands” of property owners, should it go into effect.

    Those who don’t comply could be subject to fines of up to $10,000 per unit, according to the ordinance. Mr. Mayle’s letter argues that individuals cannot be in violation of section of the code in question because it “merely describes the process for obtaining a so-called ‘Lead-Safe Certificate.’”

    The letter also argues that the health department does not have the ability to issue such a certificate, because it is a “creature of statute with limited enumerated powers.”

    The initial deadline only applies to properties in the most at-risk census tracts. According to the ordinance, deadlines are set for units in various tracts on June 30 and Dec. 31 for every year until the end of 2026.

    According to Judge Cook’s order, parties must update the court on the status of the issue by late July.

  • Real Estate Investor · Dallas, NC · Member since 2016 · 43 posts · 10 votes
    4y

    It's about time this issue is brought to light!  This is exactly what I have complained about on here (along with many others)!  It seems as though some of those bigger apartment buildings are in just as much disrepair and need this ordinance to get those landlords to clean up their property.  I have wondered why they were just targeting the smaller buildings or houses.  Not everybody is making a huge profit on their rentals!  I am just glad to have someone renting my house at a reasonable amount and they are good people who take care of my home!

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
    4y

    I am with @Andrew Fidler and I don't think this is going away. The optics of the situation and its effect on politicians to now back off of this after all the rhetoric they whipped up is impossible. I believe the courts will eventually side with the city, BUT the question at hand is what does this look like after all that comes down. I have said all along if the city wants a law like this then EVERYBODY goes into the pot. Apartments, homeowners, etc. Not just one small select group of property owners. I have personally had issues with houses I was working on where the property next door had peeling paint but because they were an owner occupant they didn't have to address the issue. My property would have paint blowing into the yard that I had to clean up. If someone in my property were to have lead poisoning and the health department were called in I would be the only one under the microscope. The peeling paint coming off the neighbor's house wouldn't even be a factor in the investigation, discussion, and the lawsuits that would follow even if it was pointed out this could be the source of the problem. Therefore the only way to be fair is EVERYONE must comply or nobody.

    I am all for improving housing, but not as an unfunded mandate that is thrown against only one group of property owners while ignoring all the other types of property owners (apartments & owner-occupants) and factors (lead pipes still in city water lines) that could go into the lead problem. Either we have an honest discussion about the problem as a whole and EVERYONE contributes to the solution or we let things stay as they are until EVERYONE is ready to be involved. Housing providers didn't create this problem over night by themselves. This has been a long time coming and it needs to be a community solution with every property involved, an efficient and effective inspection system that is fair, and most importantly A LOT of money to help property owners become compliant without bankrupting them. It is that last piece that will be the most problematic. Government is great at issuing mandates and fines to enforce, but not quite so good at providing funding to help with those mandates.

    Andrew brings up another good point about the unintended consequences of this law if it is allowed to stand exactly as it is right now. This law was modeled after Rochester New York, where today the blighted housing stock stands at 35% and rising. Property owners have simply thrown up their hands and walked away and now you have a decreased supply of rentals and an increase in blighted and abandoned properties that are turning into eye sores and problems. That will likely happen in Toledo because as Andrew pointed out, putting in a $30K investment into a $20K house and renting it for $400 per month simply won't work. So, one of two things will happen. The property will become abandoned and eventually have to torn down or an investor will put the $30K in, but now it will rent for double or more and push all the people that can't afford that rent away. Where they will go is anyone's guess. It has happened in other cities and progrssives have a name for it, they call it gentrfying and say the word with venom as if the people investing caused the problem. Nope, laws like this are what will eventually create it assuming it doesn't go the other way and just stay an abandoned, blighted, and crime ridden mess.

    I know of several areas in Columbus that gentrifying has occured and some of those previously blighted and run down neighborhoods are now posh upper middle class areas. Where the people that used to live there went I am not sure of, but they couldn't afford to stay there. Unfortunately I am not sure Toledo will go that route. We don't have a dynamic and growing economy as Columbus does, we arent the state capital, and we don't have any modern industries coming in to provide jobs and higher incomes that would push up the need for housing to improve in those poorer areas of Toledo. I could be wrong and I hope I am. I would love to see the entire city improve, but I am just not convinced that is where this will go.

    This is a big problem that will involve everyone if we want to find a true solution. Time will tell if we get there. 

  • Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 19 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Michael Temple:

    I am with @Andrew Fidler and I don't think this is going away. The optics of the situation and its effect on politicians to now back off of this after all the rhetoric they whipped up is impossible. I believe the courts will eventually side with the city, BUT the question at hand is what does this look like after all that comes down. I have said all along if the city wants a law like this then EVERYBODY goes into the pot. Apartments, homeowners, etc. Not just one small select group of property owners. I have personally had issues with houses I was working on where the property next door had peeling paint but because they were an owner occupant they didn't have to address the issue. My property would have paint blowing into the yard that I had to clean up. If someone in my property were to have lead poisoning and the health department were called in I would be the only one under the microscope. The peeling paint coming off the neighbor's house wouldn't even be a factor in the investigation, discussion, and the lawsuits that would follow even if it was pointed out this could be the source of the problem. Therefore the only way to be fair is EVERYONE must comply or nobody.

    I am all for improving housing, but not as an unfunded mandate that is thrown against only one group of property owners while ignoring all the other types of property owners (apartments & owner-occupants) and factors (lead pipes still in city water lines) that could go into the lead problem. Either we have an honest discussion about the problem as a whole and EVERYONE contributes to the solution or we let things stay as they are until EVERYONE is ready to be involved. Housing providers didn't create this problem over night by themselves. This has been a long time coming and it needs to be a community solution with every property involved, an efficient and effective inspection system that is fair, and most importantly A LOT of money to help property owners become compliant without bankrupting them. It is that last piece that will be the most problematic. Government is great at issuing mandates and fines to enforce, but not quite so good at providing funding to help with those mandates.

    Andrew brings up another good point about the unintended consequences of this law if it is allowed to stand exactly as it is right now. This law was modeled after Rochester New York, where today the blighted housing stock stands at 35% and rising. Property owners have simply thrown up their hands and walked away and now you have a decreased supply of rentals and an increase in blighted and abandoned properties that are turning into eye sores and problems. That will likely happen in Toledo because as Andrew pointed out, putting in a $30K investment into a $20K house and renting it for $400 per month simply won't work. So, one of two things will happen. The property will become abandoned and eventually have to torn down or an investor will put the $30K in, but now it will rent for double or more and push all the people that can't afford that rent away. Where they will go is anyone's guess. It has happened in other cities and progrssives have a name for it, they call it gentrfying and say the word with venom as if the people investing caused the problem. Nope, laws like this are what will eventually create it assuming it doesn't go the other way and just stay an abandoned, blighted, and crime ridden mess.

    I know of several areas in Columbus that gentrifying has occured and some of those previously blighted and run down neighborhoods are now posh upper middle class areas. Where the people that used to live there went I am not sure of, but they couldn't afford to stay there. Unfortunately I am not sure Toledo will go that route. We don't have a dynamic and growing economy as Columbus does, we arent the state capital, and we don't have any modern industries coming in to provide jobs and higher incomes that would push up the need for housing to improve in those poorer areas of Toledo. I could be wrong and I hope I am. I would love to see the entire city improve, but I am just not convinced that is where this will go.

    This is a big problem that will involve everyone if we want to find a true solution. Time will tell if we get there. 


    Spot on about gentrification. I hate the way it's used as if it's a dirty word. Our political class is full of people who make policies that they can high-five themselves and feeeeel good about now but that have long-term, devastating effects on the populace - that they will later feel the need to "fix NOW". And the cycle continues until the voter figures out what's happening and removes them from office.

  • Real Estate Investor · Dallas, NC · Member since 2016 · 43 posts · 10 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew Fidler:

    Text of the article for those of us who have no interest in paying the Toledo Blade for access...

    https://www.toledoblade.com/lo...

    A civil lawsuit seeking to block Toledo’s lead ordinance has forced the city to push back its deadline for residential properties to be certified as lead safe as landlords face the potential of $10,000 fines.

    After a similar 2016 ordinance was struck down by the court system, Mayor Wade Kapszukiewicz worked with city council to craft an updated version of the Toledo Lead Ordinance, which then passed in December, 2020.

    The ordinance requires that owners of 1-4-unit residential rental properties or family childcare homes built before 1978 have their property inspected and certified lead-safe, as well as register their property with the county auditor. Inspections must be completed by a local lead inspector who visually inspects the interior and exterior of the property and collects dust wipes to ensure it’s up to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards.

    The lawsuit was filed Monday in Lucas County Common Pleas Court.

    The city has agreed to not enforce the lead paint ordinance until Aug. 1 after the original deadline to get certified and register properties with the Lucas County auditor was June 30. The ordinance would apply to about 6,000 Toledo properties.

    Gretchen DeBacker, the city’s director of marketing and communications, said that the city is still actively working to resolve the issues that have been raised in the complaint.

    “The parties have agreed to meet and try to resolve issues that are potentially outstanding in the plaintiff’s claim and trying to avoid any protracted litigation,” she said.

    Ms. DeBacker added that even with the deadline, the ordinance “is going to be implemented.”

    “Residents and landlords are encouraged to still take steps to ensure that their properties are lead safe and begin the process,” she said.

    Judge Gary Cook of Lucas County Court of Common Pleas signed a consent order on Tuesday confirming the deadline extension. The plaintiff, listed as Charmarlyn Strong of Toledo, has agreed not to pursue a temporary restraining order hearing.

    Her representation, Perrysburg-based attorney Andrew Mayle, said that he does not believe that the ordinance should be enforced at all, but that the parties agreed that the lawsuit does not need “immediate attention from the court” if the ordinance is not enforced.

    Mr. Mayle said that the lawsuit was filed in an effort to bring issues forward before enforcement of the ordinance began.

    “We could have sat back and just not complied and waited for them to try to cite somebody and raise this then, but we didn’t think that was the right way to go about it,” Mr. Mayle said. “We just wanted to be upfront. We asked the city to fix it themselves, they did not, so we filed our lawsuit.”

    The city and the Toledo-Lucas County Board of Health are the listed defendants.

    Along with the complaint Mr. Mayle included a letter from himself to Toledo law director Dale Emch dated for June 21. It asks the city to “restrain the abuse of Toledo’s corporate powers.”

    The letter goes on to list three primary issues being alleged with the ordinance: there is no “coherent” penalty for violations, it assumes the health department has “statutory powers” that it does not, and that it offends the “exclusive jurisdiction” of the Toledo Municipal Court. Mr. Mayle called the ordinance a case of “legislative malpractice”.

    “If this is truly a public health issue, why are most residences being left out? Why are owner-occupied [units] being left out? Why are big apartment units being left out?” he said. “We think if they’re going to do this to be a level playing field, just make everyone play by the same rules.”

    Although there is only one plaintiff listed in the complaint, Mr. Mayle said that the ordinance would likely impact “hundreds or thousands” of property owners, should it go into effect.

    Those who don’t comply could be subject to fines of up to $10,000 per unit, according to the ordinance. Mr. Mayle’s letter argues that individuals cannot be in violation of section of the code in question because it “merely describes the process for obtaining a so-called ‘Lead-Safe Certificate.’”

    The letter also argues that the health department does not have the ability to issue such a certificate, because it is a “creature of statute with limited enumerated powers.”

    The initial deadline only applies to properties in the most at-risk census tracts. According to the ordinance, deadlines are set for units in various tracts on June 30 and Dec. 31 for every year until the end of 2026.

    According to Judge Cook’s order, parties must update the court on the status of the issue by late July.

     Can anyone update me on the status? According to their map, I'm going to be delinquent soon. 

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    I am a new owner and landlord of a 1917 single-family house in Old Towne. I just recently learned of this Lead Safe Toledo initiative, and it's pretty shocking. I bought the house for $64k, put $6k in repairs into it, and am renting it out for $1100/month. That may sound like a decent return, but I am paying ~ $100/month for trash and water, $560 on tax/PMI/insurance/principal/interest, plus about another $100/month on routine maintenance and upgrades. That is only $340/month net, in a perfect world (prior to income tax). As a total return, considering leverage, it's really nice. But considering an entire exterior repaint, plus some interior - I am in the red for a few years. Replace windows? Forget it. Even if I do the labor myself, this might be over a decade of operating losses.

    My renter was well screened.  He is not poverty stricken, so there is absolutely no free government cheese for me.  

    I could stomach this IF it were somehow legal.  How does this even come close to passing a smell test on the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause?  They target only a tiny portion of residences - the one's who's owners are the least capable of defending themselves against the oppressive arm of the government. There is no stipulation as to whether or not children are living in the house.   What about +4 units?  What about non-rentals?  Do not their children get equal protection under the law?  This is nothing more than a tremendous and ill-conceived government money grab.  

    I have a call into the mayor's office.  Kaptur returns my calls.  DeWine returns my calls. Wade is batting zero in this regard, which speaks poorly of him.   I would bribe city council, but the DoJ cut-off that avenue.  (Just kidding on that last remark!)

    If you are going to apply a law, apply it equally for the benefit and punishment of all, not simply to manhandle the most vulnerable.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Renee F.:
    Quote from @Andrew Fidler:

    Text of the article for those of us who have no interest in paying the Toledo Blade for access...

    https://www.toledoblade.com/lo...

    A civil lawsuit seeking to block Toledo’s lead ordinance has forced the city to push back its deadline for residential properties to be certified as lead safe as landlords face the potential of $10,000 fines.

    After a similar 2016 ordinance was struck down by the court system, Mayor Wade Kapszukiewicz worked with city council to craft an updated version of the Toledo Lead Ordinance, which then passed in December, 2020.

    The ordinance requires that owners of 1-4-unit residential rental properties or family childcare homes built before 1978 have their property inspected and certified lead-safe, as well as register their property with the county auditor. Inspections must be completed by a local lead inspector who visually inspects the interior and exterior of the property and collects dust wipes to ensure it’s up to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards.

    The lawsuit was filed Monday in Lucas County Common Pleas Court.

    The city has agreed to not enforce the lead paint ordinance until Aug. 1 after the original deadline to get certified and register properties with the Lucas County auditor was June 30. The ordinance would apply to about 6,000 Toledo properties.

    Gretchen DeBacker, the city’s director of marketing and communications, said that the city is still actively working to resolve the issues that have been raised in the complaint.

    “The parties have agreed to meet and try to resolve issues that are potentially outstanding in the plaintiff’s claim and trying to avoid any protracted litigation,” she said.

    Ms. DeBacker added that even with the deadline, the ordinance “is going to be implemented.”

    “Residents and landlords are encouraged to still take steps to ensure that their properties are lead safe and begin the process,” she said.

    Judge Gary Cook of Lucas County Court of Common Pleas signed a consent order on Tuesday confirming the deadline extension. The plaintiff, listed as Charmarlyn Strong of Toledo, has agreed not to pursue a temporary restraining order hearing.

    Her representation, Perrysburg-based attorney Andrew Mayle, said that he does not believe that the ordinance should be enforced at all, but that the parties agreed that the lawsuit does not need “immediate attention from the court” if the ordinance is not enforced.

    Mr. Mayle said that the lawsuit was filed in an effort to bring issues forward before enforcement of the ordinance began.

    “We could have sat back and just not complied and waited for them to try to cite somebody and raise this then, but we didn’t think that was the right way to go about it,” Mr. Mayle said. “We just wanted to be upfront. We asked the city to fix it themselves, they did not, so we filed our lawsuit.”

    The city and the Toledo-Lucas County Board of Health are the listed defendants.

    Along with the complaint Mr. Mayle included a letter from himself to Toledo law director Dale Emch dated for June 21. It asks the city to “restrain the abuse of Toledo’s corporate powers.”

    The letter goes on to list three primary issues being alleged with the ordinance: there is no “coherent” penalty for violations, it assumes the health department has “statutory powers” that it does not, and that it offends the “exclusive jurisdiction” of the Toledo Municipal Court. Mr. Mayle called the ordinance a case of “legislative malpractice”.

    “If this is truly a public health issue, why are most residences being left out? Why are owner-occupied [units] being left out? Why are big apartment units being left out?” he said. “We think if they’re going to do this to be a level playing field, just make everyone play by the same rules.”

    Although there is only one plaintiff listed in the complaint, Mr. Mayle said that the ordinance would likely impact “hundreds or thousands” of property owners, should it go into effect.

    Those who don’t comply could be subject to fines of up to $10,000 per unit, according to the ordinance. Mr. Mayle’s letter argues that individuals cannot be in violation of section of the code in question because it “merely describes the process for obtaining a so-called ‘Lead-Safe Certificate.’”

    The letter also argues that the health department does not have the ability to issue such a certificate, because it is a “creature of statute with limited enumerated powers.”

    The initial deadline only applies to properties in the most at-risk census tracts. According to the ordinance, deadlines are set for units in various tracts on June 30 and Dec. 31 for every year until the end of 2026.

    According to Judge Cook’s order, parties must update the court on the status of the issue by late July.

     Can anyone update me on the status? According to their map, I'm going to be delinquent soon. 


     https://www.toledoblade.com/local/city/2022/11/25/amendments-lead-law-put-violators-housing-court/stories/20221125112

    City officials now want the Toledo Municipal Housing Court to hear alleged violations of Toledo’s lead-safety ordinance.

    The administration believes the change from an administrative hearing process will allow the law to withstand ongoing legal challenges that have prevented it from being enforced.

    Toledo has faced recurring legal challenges since 2016 while working to craft a law that requires owners of residential rentals with four or fewer dwellings and built before 1978 to inspect their properties for lead paint and obtain lead-safe certificates from the Toledo-Lucas County Health Department.

    The law also stipulates that inspections must be completed by a local lead inspector who visually inspects properties’ interiors and exteriors and collects dust wipes to test for compliance with U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards. Potential fines for violations could reach $10,000 annually.

    Faced with the most recent lawsuit filed in June, the city has delayed until Thursday any effort to enforce its lead law, but Law Director Dale Emch is hopeful a pending revision will move the process forward. Toledo City Council will consider two newly amended ordinances during an agenda-review session Tuesday prior to its Dec. 6 meeting.

    One measure substitutes a revised lead ordinance for the existing version, while another amends the city’s process to appeal nuisance-property declarations, which could be pertinent to the lead-paint ordinance.

    Lead-law violations would be handled in housing court as first-degree misdemeanors, similar to other types of building nuisances, Mr. Emch said. That change should address concerns about the lack of legal process offered by an administrative hearing, he said.

    “We thought it was more important to begin enforcing the law and trying to keep kids safe from the real serious health concerns that can be caused by lead,” Mr. Emch said Friday.

    But Andrew Mayle, a lawyer representing Charmarlyn Strong, a local landlord and rental manager, in a June 26 lead-law lawsuit against Toledo, said the proposed revisions fall short of meeting objections he has raised, including during a Nov. 17 pretrial conference before Lucas County Common Pleas Judge Gary Cook. The revisions stem from that proceeding; another pretrial conference is scheduled for Dec. 15.

    “The currently existing ordinance attempts to end-run the courts, which is something we raised in our lawsuit,” he said Friday. “The potential changes now pending before city council appear to be designed to try to moot some of the challenges raised in our lawsuit.”

    Mr. Mayle rejected in particular the revised ordinance’s provision allowing a third party to issue a license, which in this case would be the health department.

    “We do not believe that municipalities have the power to require property owners, or anyone else, to obtain licenses from health departments any more than municipalities could require citizens to obtain licenses from, for example, the Department of Liquor Control, the Bureau of Workers’ Compensation, or the Bureau of Motor Vehicles,” he said. “In my view, no state statute enables this type of arrangement. Otherwise, the law would be on a slippery slope and municipalities could impose all manner of other licensing requirements administered by politically unaccountable third-party bureaucracies.”

    Mr. Emch disagreed and said the court has agreed previously that the city does have the authority to work with the Toledo-Lucas County Health Department in the proposed manner.

    Mr. Mayle said his decision about whether to challenge the revised ordinances — if they pass — will depend on what actions council takes.

    “Just because legislation is proposed does not mean it will be passed as proposed, or passed at all,” he said. “However, if the proposed version passes exactly as it is proposed, I could foresee a challenge to it, yes.”

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    "First-Degree Misdemeanor."  

    A criminal offense?!  180 days in prison and a $1,000 fine ... for not painting your house - quickly enough.  This is going from bad to far-worse.  Maybe they should just cut to the chase and make it a felony.  This is particularly ironic coming from the Toledo City Council - 1/3 of which is currently under criminal indictment.

    I had an email conversation with the Lead Safe Coordinator last Friday, exactly one week ago.  I said: "My concern is that I could be in the process of allocating funds and manpower to ensure that my property passes an inspection, and in the interim, I am flagged by your inspectors for being noncompliant. My understanding is that there are severe penalties for noncompliance. Is that a realistic concern?"

    She acknowledged that it is, indeed, a valid concern.  She added that she is not currently enforcing the ordinance.  That provides a modicum of solace, because of the qualifier "currently."  There is no way to paint a house exterior in winter.  I need to save up (I'm guessing) about $6 grand for that, and I will be able to do that by June.  The rental income will not come close to covering that; I have the benefit of outside funds.  Then I have to address the interior.  Ideally, that will mean new windows, which is an upgrade I would like to accomplish over the next 5 years as rental-cashflow permits.  Now I'm starting to think - screw these guys.   I will perform the bare minimum to be compliant, and raise rents accordingly.  

    Someone has to pay for this, and it will the citizens of the "underserved communities."  They will no longer be underserved with their nice, new paintjobs.  Fortunately, the tight rental market will allow me to execute this strategy, and push those costs onto the backs of the people they are trying to serve.  Absolute fools playing games with economics, a discipline they do not understand.  

  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    It's no small consolation to you guys,  I am sure, but the city of Rochester sprung a similar ordinance on local landlords way back in 2005-06 - after we had purchased several duplexes in 2004.  In reality, it was just a matter of time until other cities caught on to the fact that there were numerous neighborhoods with many older houses owned by out-of-area (i.e. non-voting) investors who could get tagged with the bill for bringing these properties up.  Politics as usual.  

    On the equal protection issue, unless  you fall into a "protected class," equal protection doctrine only requires that a law have some rational basis.    It takes next to nothing to come up with something that passes muster.  

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    I'll throw a little more fuel onto this Kafkaesque Fire.  There is an "Early Bird" matching grant program, ostensibly to help landlords meet compliance minimums.  One needs to perform the repairs, and request the city reimburse them for 50% of their costs.  Presuming the reimbursement program works precisely as promised, this seems like a no-brainer.  However, there are two strings attached:

    1. It must be rented at or below HUD's Fair Market Rates

    2. Tenant's annual income must be below 80% AMI

    Now number 2 is utterly absurd.  My tenant works 60-hour weeks at Dana Corp.  He swaps his life for income, which is virtuous.  But it disqualifies me from being able to apply for the Early Bird matching money.  That money is only for landlords that rent to people who cannot afford rent.  

    How do they even enforce this, you may ask.  You, the landlord, are required to submit your tenant's IRS Form 1040.  You think I'm kidding.  I may be a witty guy, but I'm not clever enough to make up something that absurd.  
    Early-Bird-MG-Packet-FINAL-1.pdf (toledoleadsafe.com)

    This gets even better!  How do you convince your tenant to give you a copy of their 1040?  I know there is no way I would give that info to my landlord.   Well, the City has a solution for that (detailed on page 5 of the linked PDF).

    " Some rental owners incentivize tenant participation by passing along the savings from this grant in the form of a gift
    card."

    I am not a lawyer, but I have to ask: Is that even legal?  Where I come from (Toledo), they call that a "kickback."  Don't think that since this came from the Mayor's office that it must be legal.  From what I've seen, Toledo government is not attracting the best and the brightest.  These dolts are making stuff as they go... evidenced by years of their policy and its implementation being curbed by the courts.  

    The only solution I can see at this point is to cease collecting rent from my tenant until I can get it Lead Safe Toledo compliant.  I am not going to risk a criminal charge to collect rent.  

    If there is anyone on this thread that is actively involved in the lawsuits against the city, then I send you my sincerest gratitude.  I am so appreciative that someone is challenging these pathetic, little tyrants.  I'm also willing to throw in a $100 towards the legal fees.  If every landlord threw in a $100 per door per year, then we would have a pretty nice war chest for legal and lobbying.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Christopher Sandys:

    I'll throw a little more fuel onto this Kafkaesque Fire.  There is an "Early Bird" matching grant program, ostensibly to help landlords meet compliance minimums.  One needs to perform the repairs, and request the city reimburse them for 50% of their costs.  Presuming the reimbursement program works precisely as promised, this seems like a no-brainer.  However, there are two strings attached:

    1. It must be rented at or below HUD's Fair Market Rates

    2. Tenant's annual income must be below 80% AMI

    Now number 2 is utterly absurd.  My tenant works 60-hour weeks at Dana Corp.  He swaps his life for income, which is virtuous.  But it disqualifies me from being able to apply for the Early Bird matching money.  That money is only for landlords that rent to people who cannot afford rent.  

    How do they even enforce this, you may ask.  You, the landlord, are required to submit your tenant's IRS Form 1040.  You think I'm kidding.  I may be a witty guy, but I'm not clever enough to make up something that absurd.  
    Early-Bird-MG-Packet-FINAL-1.pdf (toledoleadsafe.com)

    This gets even better!  How do you convince your tenant to give you a copy of their 1040?  I know there is no way I would give that info to my landlord.   Well, the City has a solution for that (detailed on page 5 of the linked PDF).

    " Some rental owners incentivize tenant participation by passing along the savings from this grant in the form of a gift
    card."

    I am not a lawyer, but I have to ask: Is that even legal?  Where I come from (Toledo), they call that a "kickback."  Don't think that since this came from the Mayor's office that it must be legal.  From what I've seen, Toledo government is not attracting the best and the brightest.  These dolts are making stuff as they go... evidenced by years of their policy and its implementation being curbed by the courts.  

    The only solution I can see at this point is to cease collecting rent from my tenant until I can get it Lead Safe Toledo compliant.  I am not going to risk a criminal charge to collect rent.  

    If there is anyone on this thread that is actively involved in the lawsuits against the city, then I send you my sincerest gratitude.  I am so appreciative that someone is challenging these pathetic, little tyrants.  I'm also willing to throw in a $100 towards the legal fees.  If every landlord threw in a $100 per door per year, then we would have a pretty nice war chest for legal and lobbying.  


     The people with the war chest already exerted their influence, hence the policy decision that lead paint does not exist in 5+ unit buildings!

  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    3y

    @Christopher Sandys - 

    I don't disagree that the requirement to prepare-for and wipe-test these properties is a burden; the statutory mindset I think you are missing is that rentals are a business and subject to different regulation than private homes (think restaurant health dept regulations vs a private kitchen). That said I was blown away by Andrew Mayle's abilities to request the court system to correct constitutional law and succeed in the last lawsuit; we will see how the 2022 July filing fares.

    My position has been the wipe tests are arduous and largely unnecessary provided peeling paint surfaces have been properly cleaned, scraped, and painted. (Section 8 requires zero peeling paint but does not require wipe testing for example). It doesn't sound like your paint job would pass a Section 8 inspection so the needed repair isn't something I would blame on the Toledo lead ordinance...if you bought the property properly then you got a discount at purchase and are simply waiting for Spring to make a repair.

    I have been discussing this ordinance since ~2015 and your response is quite understandable. The adjacent City of Maumee (also enacting their own rental property ordinance, about 10x worse than Toledo's, and similarly supported by the mindset that businesses and personal property are not afforded equal protections...that said I am expecting a lawsuit there too) just mailed out post cards to the effect of "Do you know of a blighted, vacant, derelict, or decrepit property? Report it to the city so we can sue them to fix it!"

    Toledo would be well advised to use the same approach as this would net both private and investment properties as well as identify those the public identifies as an eye sore.

    Parting thought for you - below is a recent lead paint article that was published 1/25/2023 and from my view is the reason we will never see a city devoid of a lead paint ordinance...children are being lead poisoned and this is not a result we can permit or promote as a society (what you permit, you promote).

    My personal portfolio is lead-safe certified, the process is pretty simple provided the structure would pass a Sect 8 inspection, and I am very supportive of our LMHA voucher program so they are all renovated to that standard anyway.

    https://www.13abc.com/2023/01/...

    TOLEDO, Ohio (WTVG) - Toledo City Council passed an ordinance that declared lead a public health emergency and replaced the existing chapter of Toledo Municipal Code with a new one aiming to help those impacted by lead exposure.

    According to the World Health Organization, no level of lead exposure is safe and it can have a devastating impact on children. The experts estimate that a million people die from lead posing each year, many of them children.

    Councilwoman Dr. Tiffany Whitman says this move has been long in the works. “We want to work with landlords, work with our tenants to make sure that they’re safe and that they’re living in a space that is lead-free,” says Dr. Whitman.

    The issue hits close to home for Councilwoman Vanice Williams, as one child at her daycare facility was hospitalized.

    “The highest level in Lucas county, that they had ever seen was in a child. She’s five. Well, she’ll be five, come on now she’s a baby,” says Williams.

    According to Williams the issue primarily impacts Toledo’s vulnerable communities; black and brown people, and low-income residents.

    Williams says the council is addressing this issue to protect the next generation. “

    “We need to focus on the little people, our future. And look at the learning deficit that lead poisoning causes, it’s detrimental to our society,” says Williams.

    If anyone is experiencing lead exposure, contact Engage Toledo or your council person for assistance.

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    Hi Andrew,  thank you for the reply, and nice to meet you.  I fully understand and agree that I purchased the property at a discount attributable to factors that I need to fix.  I spent $64k on acquisition, and another $6k on materials and 6 months of sweat equity to get it to where it is now.  I do not want to be a slum lord; I want my properties to an asset to the community.  

    I do not, however, want to risk a criminal indictment for not working quickly enough to fix my property.  The City of Toledo's response is that I need to forgo rent until it is compliant, and it looks like I have choice given the potential penalty.  My tenant will live rent-free, and I will invest further.  My $64k house will be an $88k house by the end of 2023.  It will be very nice.  Gentrified, as someone in this thread dare speak earlier.  And the rent will reflect that gentrification.  And my message to Councilwoman Vanice Williams is that the group that will carry the ultimate financial burden of my upgrades will be (in her own words): "Toledo’s vulnerable communities; black and brown people, and low-income residents."  Nice work, councilwoman.  Way to go.

    Macroeconomists call this "Cost Push Inflation."  THAT is what Toledo City Council is doing to its citizens. The demand for housing is inelastic.  Long ago I became utterly astounded by the lack of financial literacy possessed (or not) by elected officials and most of their hired bureaucrats.  That's not just Toledo, but I experienced it first-hand on the state legislation level in Connecticut.  

    It's not the goal I have an issue with. It is a virtuous and worthy goal. It is the implementation and execution I can most aptly describe as Kafka. I am reaching out to HUD to discover if they know that the City of Toledo is advising landlords to give HUD money kickbacks to tenants. I mean ... it's HUD money with HUD strings. Is that legal?

    (Michael P - Nice wit; well done!)

  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Christopher Sandys Do not underestimate your opposition here.  Next, the city will thwart your effort to pass your costs through to your tenants through rent control.  Also, last I was in town a few weeks ago, Toledo has plenty of excess capacity in the form of derelict and near-derelict houses and a declining/aging population - raising rents, even without rent control, is pretty tough under those circumstances.  

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    Oh man, the dreaded rent control! There is a huge list of negative externalities that are well known consequences of rent control.  I wouldn't be surprised, given the level of financial illiteracy I've observed in a short period. And I already know which group of underserved and disfranchised people it would harm the most.  Councilwoman Williams, care to guess? 

    I do not know if I fully agree, @Darius Ogloza, that the Toledo market has that much excess capacity.  Thankfully, the Lucas County Land Bank has been demolishing lots of trash homes.  Demographics of an aging population... Toledo has been on the downswing since the early 20th century.  It looks like it has finally stabilized.  If Toledo wants to learn from locales that are doing things correctly, look to where people are in-flowing.  Cities and States that are business friendly.

    You are Marin County?  I lived in LA in the 90s (Hermosa, Redondo, & West Side).  California is a different planet, now, and not for the better.  I hear the Bay Area has been hit the hardest.  One of the most beautiful places with tremendous natural and cultural beauty - being destroyed through business-hostile policies.  Will Toledo follow that example?  Who knows - they just might.  

    It's pretty sad that as a business man my local government is properly described as "opposition."  What does that say about Toledo?

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    While we're talking about the [supposedly] altruistic intentions of this policy, let's not forget that anyone over 50 years old (like me) grew up in fully-leaded homes.  It was in our gasoline for all our cars.  It was everywhere.  

    The peak of the crisis is long gone.  The pre-1978 homes will eventually have their windows replaced.  The interior wet plaster will eventually be replaced with sheet rock and new paint.  This is a self-correcting problem that has been on the mend for over 4 decades.  And it gets better every year with every new coat of paint and derelict home that is destroyed.  

    Not for one second do I buy this public crisis proclamation.  It's not rational.  However, I do like homes that are properly maintained, @Andrew Fidler.  

    If there were no Federal HUD money going to Toledo to abate lead, would Toledo be abating lead? I think not.

  • Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2020 · 88 posts · 101 votes
    3y

    "Tell me you studied economics without telling me you studied economics."
    I can tell you firsthand that council has no concept of any of these terms. Inelastic Demand? Externalities? Laughable. 

    The reality is that they've made up their minds and their goal is to spend as many tax payer dollars fighting for this in the courts as possible so that they can declare a victory against the evil landlords. Or at least the little evil landlords, because fighting the big evil landlords - those who are most likely to have economies of scale and be able to address the concerns for a lower cost - would be even more expensive. 

    I've kind of reached the point of not trying to fight with council. You'll never win because they don't want you to win and they have the power. So yes, in the communities where lead paint is most prevalent, rental costs will increase and the people that they are trying to protect will be harmed. I would provide your tenants the direct phone numbers for city council along with your letter why their rent is going up. 

  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Christopher Sandys    Granted, Toledo is not Marin but I must admit Perrysburg, Sylvania and Ottawa Hills are quite nice as well as a few other areas around Franklin Park.  

    Sadly, I spend most of my time in East Toledo when I am there as that's where my wife's family is from:

    I just spent the last 8 weeks looking at this, lol:

  • Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 19 votes
    3y

    @Darius Ogloza

    Imagine thinking that doing a PSA advising people who paid for sex should get tested is a good spend of $$$. This is government. 🤦‍♀️

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    @Darius Ogloza There's no way Fatboyz would pass that exterior, visual inspection!  But it is Friday night, and I'm feeling frosty.  I might take a trip the other city (East Toledo - over a bridge) and check out what all this Fatboyz excitement is all about!

    A more serious note, the Toledo Early Bird Matching Grant program is a HUD Community Development Block Grant. HUD has strict, published rules on how much of the grant can be used for program admin under their document "State CDBG Program Eligibility Requirements." See them here:
    State CDBG Program Eligibility Requirements | HUD.gov / U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)

    The City of Toledo tells its businesspeople to provide kickbacks of their HUD grants to their counterparties to effectuate City administration of this HUD program. Why isn't the city paying for this aspect of the program administration? Why is the City instructing us to spend an unspecified portion of the grant, which is designed to benefit the underserved, as a kickback to tenants? Is the City of Toledo defrauding HUD, or engaging in reckless program management? It sure looks that way. I'm not saying I put a call into the Cleveland Field Office for HUD, but someone may have initiated just such a call this afternoon.

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Fatboyz has good reviews 👀 😆 

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
    3y

    For those of you that brought up rent control, I have some good news for once. The state of Ohio passed a bill at the State level that keeps any municipality from enacting rent control. https://www.cincinnati.com/sto... So, when city council continues to pass these stupid ordinances that dump tons of costs on to small housing providers they can and most likely will pass them right on through to the residents. Most will simply not have a choice. A business, any business, can't go on losing money month after month for years on end and survive. So, if city council decrees we have to do these things for the "little people" they need to be reminded when the "little people" can no longer afford to live anywhere except tiny little apartments where the law largely doesn't apply that they only have themselves to blame.

    I am with those of you that cited the fact that city council members are completely devoid of even a basic understanding of economics and finance. That is too bad because economics is basically a force of nature and doesn't obey the wishes of grandstanding politicians. Economics decrees if you dump huge expenses on the backs of housing providers the residents renting that housing will be one of the long list of victims of their economically devoid policies.

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    That is absolutely wonderful news @Michael Temple, that Ohio has preemptively shut down any and all attempts to control rent.  The political leanings of the State Legislature are at the other end of the spectrum from the Toledo City Council.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
    3y

    @Christopher Sandys now if we can just get them to fix all the other idiotic policies at the state level that various city councils around the state keep thinking up we will be making some real progress. These petty bureaucrats at the city council level shouldn't be allowed to have this much power over such a critical asset as housing, especially when they understand so little about it and abuse said power at every turn. However, I am not holding my breath the state will be reigning them in anytime soon. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.