Toledo Lead Paint Law...Halted for the THIRD Time

Toledo Lead Paint Law...Halted for the THIRD Time

Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/city/2020/06/26/kapszukiewicz-administration-delays-lead-safe-housing-enforcement-citing-coronavirus/stories/20200626079


The latest and greatest on the Toledo Lead Ordinance. The 2019 declaration of a new lead ordinance which would be enforced by Toledo's Dept of Neighborhoods (not the County Health Dept as the ~2016 version was going to be) has been officially ended. 

The deadline for compliance was at the end of this month but there hadn't been any publicity, publication, or out reach. Check the BP archives back in February 2020 I requested a lead certification for a property and was blatantly told by our Dept of Neighborhoods that there was no certificate, process for inspection, nor staff on hand forming any department as of yet.

What Does Andrew Think? The City will begin discussion late this year and there is a possibility they will have the momentum to get it right this time. I know the topic is largely political so factor our mayor is up for election in 2021 so the program's future will rest on the goodwill generated through the program.

I hope any program affects ALL rental properties not units 1-4 in size (children are exposed to lead in all properties not just small ones) followed by ALL HOMES (children are exposed where lead is present - old homes - not just landlord rented ones). I hope they simplify the process for visual peeling paint as the initial inspection and get away from the expense and hassle of wipe tests. I will continue to provide a voice for property managers and investors in Toledo to make a lead program successful. 

I do think a program is coming, it's just a matter of time for Toledo to get the traction to put a program into place and begin friendly education and grant programs followed by firm language and eventual fines and enforcement. 

I see a lead paint program as a necessity to force landlords to update their properties, many owners will have to decide if they will re-paint or install vinyl siding/windows or dump their properties to new owners who will. (My personal portfolio has been aggressively installing vinyl siding, soffit, fascia, and using waterproof laminate flooring over any painted ones. Whenever the lead ordinance occurs I won't have an uphill battle, nor will I have reporters documenting blighted properties I am responsible for)

Conclusion - whenever a lead ordinance finally does come into effect and age through to enforcement Toledo real estate will suffer in the most difficult neighborhoods. Those of us who see that as a buying opportunity will displace those who are a hazard to our community and the public AND the new owners will benefit.

In the mean time hunker down as Covid spikes again and remember the communicating on Bigger Pockets and with your favorite Toledo property manager are safe ways to develop your real estate skills while staying safe!

(Please post if anyone has an update on Cleveland/Akron/Columbus/Cincinnati lead paint program ordinances, I'd be curious if we have a state-wide delay)

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Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
4y

I am with @Andrew Fidler and I don't think this is going away. The optics of the situation and its effect on politicians to now back off of this after all the rhetoric they whipped up is impossible. I believe the courts will eventually side with the city, BUT the question at hand is what does this look like after all that comes down. I have said all along if the city wants a law like this then EVERYBODY goes into the pot. Apartments, homeowners, etc. Not just one small select group of property owners. I have personally had issues with houses I was working on where the property next door had peeling paint but because they were an owner occupant they didn't have to address the issue. My property would have paint blowing into the yard that I had to clean up. If someone in my property were to have lead poisoning and the health department were called in I would be the only one under the microscope. The peeling paint coming off the neighbor's house wouldn't even be a factor in the investigation, discussion, and the lawsuits that would follow even if it was pointed out this could be the source of the problem. Therefore the only way to be fair is EVERYONE must comply or nobody.

I am all for improving housing, but not as an unfunded mandate that is thrown against only one group of property owners while ignoring all the other types of property owners (apartments & owner-occupants) and factors (lead pipes still in city water lines) that could go into the lead problem. Either we have an honest discussion about the problem as a whole and EVERYONE contributes to the solution or we let things stay as they are until EVERYONE is ready to be involved. Housing providers didn't create this problem over night by themselves. This has been a long time coming and it needs to be a community solution with every property involved, an efficient and effective inspection system that is fair, and most importantly A LOT of money to help property owners become compliant without bankrupting them. It is that last piece that will be the most problematic. Government is great at issuing mandates and fines to enforce, but not quite so good at providing funding to help with those mandates.

Andrew brings up another good point about the unintended consequences of this law if it is allowed to stand exactly as it is right now. This law was modeled after Rochester New York, where today the blighted housing stock stands at 35% and rising. Property owners have simply thrown up their hands and walked away and now you have a decreased supply of rentals and an increase in blighted and abandoned properties that are turning into eye sores and problems. That will likely happen in Toledo because as Andrew pointed out, putting in a $30K investment into a $20K house and renting it for $400 per month simply won't work. So, one of two things will happen. The property will become abandoned and eventually have to torn down or an investor will put the $30K in, but now it will rent for double or more and push all the people that can't afford that rent away. Where they will go is anyone's guess. It has happened in other cities and progrssives have a name for it, they call it gentrfying and say the word with venom as if the people investing caused the problem. Nope, laws like this are what will eventually create it assuming it doesn't go the other way and just stay an abandoned, blighted, and crime ridden mess.

I know of several areas in Columbus that gentrifying has occured and some of those previously blighted and run down neighborhoods are now posh upper middle class areas. Where the people that used to live there went I am not sure of, but they couldn't afford to stay there. Unfortunately I am not sure Toledo will go that route. We don't have a dynamic and growing economy as Columbus does, we arent the state capital, and we don't have any modern industries coming in to provide jobs and higher incomes that would push up the need for housing to improve in those poorer areas of Toledo. I could be wrong and I hope I am. I would love to see the entire city improve, but I am just not convinced that is where this will go.

This is a big problem that will involve everyone if we want to find a true solution. Time will tell if we get there. 

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  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    City of Toledo announces updates to lead-safe paint certification (msn.com)

    Registered and Compliant by 31 March

    "If you fail to properly register with the county auditor or fail to obtain a lead-safe certificate for your property you may be charged with a misdemeanor of the first degree pursuant to TMC Section 1760.99. Additional penalties and/or fines may be assessed under TMC Section 1726.99 and ORC Chapter 5323."

    Does anyone know where I can find the most current version of the TMC [Toledo Municipal Code]?  I would like to read TMC Section 1760.99 and 1726.99.

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    According to ORC Chapter 5323:  "No owner of residential rental property shall fail to comply with the filing or updating of information requirements of section 5323.02 of the Revised Code or shall fail to satisfy the designation of agent requirement or the filing of the appropriate designation of agent document requirement of section 5323.03 of the Revised Code. The county auditor may impose upon any person who violates this section a special assessment on the residential rental property that is the subject of the violation that is not less than fifty dollars or more than one hundred fifty dollars."

    Nothing about a criminal violation.  Just a $150 fine for failure to register.  That's the Ohio portion.

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    I found the actual codes.  TMC 1726.99 speaks to nuisance houses.  It prescribes violations as a criminal act.  What I take from this is that they are using it as a "catch all" to corner you if all else fails.

    1726.99. Public nuisance prohibited; penalty; fines; cash bond. (amlegal.com)

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    Here is TMC 1760.99  
    CHAPTER 1760 Residential Rental Properties and Lead Safety Compliance (amlegal.com)

    This section of the code says: "all fines related to enforcement of this Chapter shall be deposited into the Nuisance Abatement Trust Fund."  So essentially they are using the punishments listed in TMC 1726.99 for failure to comply. Failure to comply is considered a nuisance home.  





  • Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    3y

    Hi All, just wondering if the ordinance has been permitted to proceed? I knew that it was placed on hold last year while the legal case was in the courts. 

    I have just received a letter from City of Toledo that two of my properties need to be certified by the end of this month.

  • Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
    Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Raj P.:

    Hi All, just wondering if the ordinance has been permitted to proceed? I knew that it was placed on hold last year while the legal case was in the courts. 

    I have just received a letter from City of Toledo that two of my properties need to be certified by the end of this month.

    Yes, if your property was in the first two census tracts to be inspected, the city announced that you need to get it done by the end of the Month. Here is the motion that Andrew Mayle filed on 3/2 that asks for an injunction for this new deadline: http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/P... If you really want to go down the rabbit hole on the Lead Ordinance, you can see everything that has happened since it was filed here: http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/P...I don't know if the injunction happens, but nevermind the fact that we're supposed to get 4" of snow on Friday, but be sure to paint those windows and soffits! 🙄
    Keller Williams Citywide | Dave Poeppelmeier534 Reviews
  • Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    3y

    Thanks for the update & the link Dave. Will keep an eye to see if an injunction comes through.

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
    3y

    I have been in contact with someone that is very close to the city on this and he believes the injunction is likely because the city has made an absolute mess of this ordinance on the inside. They have addressed none of the items in the last lawsuit. In addition, there is a new coordinator in the program that is way in over her head, hasn't done anything, hasn't held any certification classes, and is not even in the country right now! As if that wasn't bad enough there are only 50 inspectors, but they need 125 with no new certification classes even scheduled. His exact words were "The city has dropped the ball on this entire program big time!" Let's see what the judge says.

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    I hope your contact is correct.  I am on the verge of panic mode right now, because I need to raise capital quickly to repaint the entire exterior and about 20% of the interior.  My issue is, I can only raise money so quickly, so I'm in a race against the clock.  Basically, I'm hoping to avoid contact with the city inspectors until I can get this compliant.  The reason for the "panic" is the potential criminal charges for failure to paint my house. 

    One thing I am trying to understand, if anyone has insight on this, is what is the role of the mayor in this legislation?  I understand that this is largely driven by city council.  Is it entirely driven by city council?  Is the mayor (Wade) just along for the ride, or has he been an active supporter of this?

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2023 · 39 posts · 14 votes
    3y

    How many of you have gotten your properties compliant? How worried are you about this? What is the average cost of getting a property compliant? I have several investor friends who own about 220 doors in Toledo (collectively) and none of them talk about this or even seem to care..

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
    3y

    Every house is different. Some houses that have a lot of peeling paint outside on the house and/or garage plus other issues and will be more expensive than ones that don't have these issues. I would say at a minimum older homes are looking at replacing wood frame windows with vinyl replacement windows, new doors, and making sure there is no peeling paint inside or out.

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Christopher Sandys:

    I hope your contact is correct.  I am on the verge of panic mode right now, because I need to raise capital quickly to repaint the entire exterior and about 20% of the interior.  My issue is, I can only raise money so quickly, so I'm in a race against the clock.  Basically, I'm hoping to avoid contact with the city inspectors until I can get this compliant.  The reason for the "panic" is the potential criminal charges for failure to paint my house. 

    One thing I am trying to understand, if anyone has insight on this, is what is the role of the mayor in this legislation?  I understand that this is largely driven by city council.  Is it entirely driven by city council?  Is the mayor (Wade) just along for the ride, or has he been an active supporter of this?

     I seem to remember a press conference with Mayor Wade threatening $10,000 fines, so yes he is a supporter.


    In my opinion you are going about this wrong. Don’t avoid the inspector, bring the inspector to do the assessment so then you’ll know specifically what to fix. Maybe just one window needs fixed, and painting the whole house is a waste of time. The inspector is a third party working to collect a fee from you, not an employee of the city.

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    @Account Closed  Thank you for the advice, and I am fully with you. Without any uncertainty, the exterior of my house needs to painted.  With or without a city mandate, that needed to happen.  It is happening now with haste.  Back and hernia surgery and other luxuries have moved to the lower end of the priority list.  House exterior to the top.

    I did see a much older post where someone in Toledo recommended a home lead inspector that will perform a pre-inspection for a fee.  After getting the exterior completed I will do that.  The nice thing about that scheme is that the pre-inspector is also the inspector.  He will tell you exactly what needs to be rectified to pass the test.  

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    @Corey Duran  I recently got a quote on removing my wood siding and replacing it with the vinyl siding.  It was explained to me that the labor alone is currently at $200 per square foot. I don't know if the dude who gave me the quote overquoted me, because he didn't want the job? Could be. I've seen people do that before.

    I'm not sure what the exterior area of my 2 story, plus attic,1800 square-foot interior is.  If I were to take a WAG, I would say I'm at least at $20-30k on labor.  Now, add in any sheathing (OSB), house wrap, and the actual siding and fasteners...

    What do you guess the all-in figure is vinyl siding?  $40k?

    The there is the interior, and the windows...

    This is on a house that cost $64k.  About $70k with everything else I've already put into it.  A house that not too long ago would have sold for $25k.

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2023 · 39 posts · 14 votes
    3y

    I'm sorry that I didn't clarify. I meant how much have you been finding the test to cost? To get it certified assuming nothing was wrong and it passed the inspection just fine. Do you just pay a company/person to inspect and they file everything with the city? Is there a list of certified inspectors somewhere? I have been told it was $300 from two different sources. Has anyone found it cheaper or a discount if you give them multiple rentals at once?

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    Here are a couple of threads that address the cost of the test @Corey Duran. 

    Found good Lead Paint Tester for Toledo Lead Safe Ordinance (biggerpockets.com)

    Toledo, OH Lead Paint Ordinance Compliance (biggerpockets.com)

    In my case, I am going to spend double, and have a pre-inspection followed by an inspection by the same inspector.  $300.  $500.  Whatever.  That's chump change compared to the cost of compliance.  A cheap, single, vinyl-vinyl window costs that much, if you do all the labor yourself.  

  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    @Corey Duran  Go here:  

    Toledo Lead Safe - Toledo Lead Safe

    Drop-down menu: Owners.

    You'll notice that there is an "Early Bird Grant." Before you get excited, realize that your tenants have to qualify, and they must help you out by providing proof of their low income. You also have a cap on your income. The caps listed here are 2022 HUD Fair Market Rates for Lucas County. HUD has already changed those for 2023, but the City of Toledo ... well - who knows if they will update or not.

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Andrew Fidler @Dave Poeppelmeier Any update on the status of legal proceedings regarding the lead paint issue?

  • Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
    Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
    3y

    It looks like the Toledo Municipal Court last week ruled in favor of the City and the injunction has been terminated. The next court date is July 13th, but it's not looking good in my opinion. The Appeals Court ruling during the last lawsuit is still the final word it's looking like: http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/P...

    What this Ordinance does is really force the slumlord owners to fix up their properties, if and when the City gets out of it's own way regarding testing and implementation. Nobody wants kids to get lead poisoning, and these owners do need to be taken to task. The biggest question is what timeline is the City going to give now that there are 3 deadlines that have passed (June 2022, Dec 2022, June 2023). 

    If you're still looking to Invest here, the biggest things you need to look out for is peeling paint and lead dust. That means if you're going to buy a house with wood siding, be ready to paint it every 5 years since that's how long the Lead Certification Certificates (or whatever they're called) are good for.  You want something with some kind of siding: metal, aluminum, vinyl, or brick. You'll still have to paint roof trims, porches, etc, but that's not a big deal. Good luck with installing vinyl siding: it's ridiculously expensive right now. 

    The other big thing to avoid are original windows with 5 layers of paint, half are painted shut, another quarter don't open/stay open, etc. Those windows are going to have a really hard time passing the dust swipe tests for lead dust because they are testing for an absolute microscopic level of dust, and if there's lot of paint on those windows, there's a good chance there's lead in there. If you have replacement windows (wood or vinyl), you should be good to go unless the house next to you is a peeling paint mess. Then, the lead dust from that house is going to blow into yours... yes that's one of the biggest complaints we as investors have with the dust swipe portion of this ordinance. 

    Keller Williams Citywide | Dave Poeppelmeier534 Reviews
  • Member since 2023 · 93 posts · 60 votes
    3y

    I bought a house with peeling paint, and I'm putting thousands of dollars of rehab into it, generating zero net cash, and you call me a slumlord?  What's the matter with you?

    And seriously, do you really believe that nonsense about saving the children? You have failed to inform yourself on the CDC stats on childhood lead poisoning.  You're getting your scientific direction from the Toledo City Council.  Essentially, since 1978 you can see a steep drop in childhood lead poisoning approaching zero, but never reaching zero.  Because there will always be some kid who decides to eat dirt or some other such folly.  

    The facts without your negative labels and preaching to save the children would have been cool.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 215 votes
    3y
    The lawsuit was defeated and the injunction was lifted. The city can immediately begin enforcing it again and I would expect they will do so. It is supposed to go to the appeals court again, which is where it lost last time. The Ohio Supreme Court voted to NOT take the case the last time, so the appellate decision stood. I wouldn't expect this time to be any different.

    Those people that have houses that won't pass should probably plan on dealing the with the problem if they want to keep the house or selling it if they don't because I really don't expect the court to offer a way out of this. I could be wrong. The attorney seems to think there is no reason it should have lost last time at the appeals court, but yet it did. I don't expect this time to yield a different outcome.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
  • Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
    Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
    3y

    @Christopher Sandys Wow, really didn't feel that was going to trigger anyone, but here we are. No, I'm not calling you a slumlord. I'm calling the person who owns the house that has holes in the floor and plaster falling from the ceiling on Loraine or the lady who was living with cockroaches so bad one fell off the ceiling and bounced off my head just off E Central. I can say that because I encountered that as a Home Care PT back in the day.

    Also, being RRP Certified I can tell you that no, the paint chips aren't the main cause of lead poisoning in kids, it's the lead dust. The lead dust gets on the floor in front of the window, a toddler's toy gets dust on it, it goes in their mouth... And now you do have lead poisoning. And yes, this happens in more socioeconomically depressed areas because they still have the old windows, so on and so forth.

    So, if you want to challenge the City on evidence to back their ordinance, go for it. Best of luck because that's what numerous people have asked over the years and have gotten nothing back from them.

    Keller Williams Citywide | Dave Poeppelmeier534 Reviews
  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Christopher Sandys:

    I bought a house with peeling paint, and I'm putting thousands of dollars of rehab into it, generating zero net cash, and you call me a slumlord?  What's the matter with you?

    And seriously, do you really believe that nonsense about saving the children? You have failed to inform yourself on the CDC stats on childhood lead poisoning.  You're getting your scientific direction from the Toledo City Council.  Essentially, since 1978 you can see a steep drop in childhood lead poisoning approaching zero, but never reaching zero.  Because there will always be some kid who decides to eat dirt or some other such folly.  

    The facts without your negative labels and preaching to save the children would have been cool.  

    @Christopher Sandys

    I recommend you contact the Lucas  County Health Dept - lead paint program and convey your opinion.

    They will share statistical data and analytical data that will debunk your impression of lead paint exposure. 

    I am both a property managment broker, property investor, and a state of Ohio licensed lead paint abatement contractor. Meaning my license comes into play after children have been poisoned by lead dust and there is an Ohio (enforced by the Lucas County Health Dept) condemnation order requiring the hazard to be abated or the home will be condemned. (They start out these cases with a ~50 page report documenting the analytical lead levels both in your paint AND in the dust…meaning the minute you receive the report you can never again check off the Lead Paint Disclosure Report as “no reports and no knowledge” when renting or selling.

    I am assisting a client presently who passed their City of Toledo Lead Safe Certifiicate in Fall of last year and just this Spring of this year received one of those glorious health dept report  (looonnnggg story).

    So, my friend I fully respect your agitation and point of view, I recommend we keep it around the camp fire and not on an online forum for all to read.

    Lead paint is a pervasive issue across all cities building during the time of its use (the whole Eastern Sea Board and all industrial centers since 1978…a lot). It’s a major concern and whether we like it or not there is statically significant data showing young children of under privileged families being the  population we find with elevated levels of lead dissolved in their blood. 

    Besides the City of Toledo Ordinance…the only mechanism to detect problem properties and lead poisoning hazards is to test children’s blood after exposure (required for all public aid). 

    So a doctor walks in the room with you and your child and said “they have  ____ ug/dl blood level of lead, here’s what we can do”.( Hint, it’s not a lot and what is basically effective is incredibly painful for the child. Image hearing that while working your butt off to keep your family afloat while you work your butt off.

    The flaw in your argument that we have far lower lead levels NOW than before we discontinued lead paint usage in the country is synonymous with “the presence of OSHA has reduced worker fatalities, it’s only 10,000 a year and that’s totally acceptable from my opinion as an owner of a construction business”. I would advise such an opinion will be both personally litigious if an accident ever occurred at your company.

    Epidemiologically speaking there is no safe exposure to lead so you are 100% correct the number keeps being reduced…just don’t expect those reductions to stop anytime soon. As new new studies are conducted showing IQ, emotional, aggression and a many other acute and chronic symptoms, our challenged population face are analyzed and we decide we are still seeing documentable effects.

    The lead ordinance isn’t perfect, I fought it the first time and I’m watching it the second time. Don’t get me wrong, my family lives partially on our  personal rental portfolo. 

    presently we do not have a better option but it IS a first step. 

    I have met the families who have affected children…like it or not in Today’s world we cannot rebut this issue with “it’s costing me $ and I don’t like it”. (Aren’t we always unhappy with the rent rate? It’s an ongoing conversation at LaPlante Real Estate, whatever your properties earn today, another 9% looks much better and you aren’t satisfied till you see that in your checking account) :)

    I am sorry you bought one of those properties that need a ton of work to be lead paint certified. My process since the last ordinance era was to only buy properties that could be easily certified…OR were priced properly so I could install vinyl siding / windows and never worry about exterior lead paint again. 

    Anyone is welcome to pm me if you have questions, Chris I don’t want to come too hard but we need to be aware that these statements live forever in the digital ether. I am ever vigilant that while presently I haven’t seen personal liability claims originating from child poisoning case but I anticipate once there is an enforced City of Toledo Ordinance, affected children are the low-hanging-fruit for litigation.  
     
    Enjoy the holiday weekend everyone!

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