I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
Pace Morby shows you how to max out your credit cards and get new credit to pay the $8,800 fee he charges. Does that make you feel comfortable? Seems like taking advantage of people to me, to line his pocket, but what do I know?
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
Your attorney general probably has a victim's fund for this if you contact them and ask. You will need to present proof of payment but that's about all. They may want to know what went on and it sounds like you have a valid complaint.
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's.
Thank you for letting me know. I have heard that. I just don't have the money for an attorney general or to file a complain (not really sure how it works to submit a complaint to an AG). Also, I am mainly just going to finish paying it off and then kind of just leave it since I don't really believe Pace knows what he is doing. A lot of the time, most of the other students don't know what they are doing and they or Pace have never truly shared how much they have made on a property, so that alone is a red flag. Also, I have been researching the red flags of subject to and there is just so much risk with that and NOT telling the bank told to me by Pace (through videos and the courses) which is also a MAJOR red flag in my opinion which I did not realize he was doing until I learned more. That's all. I am just saying, it is really expensive and not even for a mentorship. For a facebook group and glorified YT videos he already has for free on TY and recorded zoom trainings that take forever to get to answering simple questions. Definitely do not recommend to anyone. I mean, if you are looking just for the connections or looking to expand your network, I guess it is worth the price just for that.
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
Your attorney general probably has a victim's fund for this if you contact them and ask. You will need to present proof of payment but that's about all. They may want to know what went on and it sounds like you have a valid complaint.
Thank you for letting me know. I have heard that. I just don't have the money for an attorney general or to file a complain (not really sure how it works to submit a complaint to an AG). Also, I am mainly just going to finish paying it off and then kind of just leave it since I don't really believe Pace knows what he is doing. A lot of the time, most of the other students don't know what they are doing and they or Pace have never truly shared how much they have made on a property, so that alone is a red flag. Also, I have been researching the red flags of subject to and there is just so much risk with that and NOT telling the bank told to me by Pace (through videos and the courses) which is also a MAJOR red flag in my opinion which I did not realize he was doing until I learned more. That's all. I am just saying, it is really expensive and not even for a mentorship. For a facebook group and glorified YT videos he already has for free on TY and recorded zoom trainings that take forever to get to answering simple questions. Definitely do not recommend to anyone. I mean, if you are looking just for the connections or looking to expand your network, I guess it is worth the price just for that.
it costs $0 to file a complaint with a state or states AG.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's.
. There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's. . @Cloey Green: So, what did you end up doing? Any update? You said: "Also, I am mainly just going to finish paying it off and then kind of just leave it since I don't really believe Pace knows what he is doing." I'm unclear why you would continue paying for something that was not what you were told.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's.
. There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's. . @Cloey Green: So, what did you end up doing? Any update? You said: "Also, I am mainly just going to finish paying it off and then kind of just leave it since I don't really believe Pace knows what he is doing." I'm unclear why you would continue paying for something that was not what you were told.
I entered into a contract and from what I've heard, I am not able to get a refund. I put a down payment from my credit card and am paying $500 from then on until it is fully paid off. I am still paying it off. I plan on speaking with my PM salesman to see if I can cancel it and then just lose access (not that I was getting anything from it) to the FB group and the videos in the courses. Pace and all of his sale people make it sound so much easier said that done. I still haven't gotten a deal and don't feel supported. Basically spending $10k to be told to figure it out.
I have to agree. I was 20 when I thought I wanted to join and did join. I didn't even have $1000 saved at that time and I was really just thinking of going the regular route of going through the banks and just save up as much as I could for a down payment on my first investment home to rent out. I got the call from Pace's team and they made it really enticing to join, even for $10,000. So I put $1600 on a credit card for a down payment and then pay $500 a month until the full amount was paid off. I have yet to do my first deal, I know it takes hard work, but they made it seem easier and better than going the normal route and than what it actually takes to get your first deal or at least started. I didn't like the fact of calling up sellers just to offer sub to or seller financing. Not that those aren't great options just in case, but I just simply wanted to buy the house and rent it out on my own without jumping through hoops to get one while I am barely just starting and getting experience. A lot of the top people that help Pace, also are kind of rude when I asked questions in the group. I simply asked what questions to ask sellers and one of them commented for me to simply go look in the zoom vault and never offered which ones even. I also though people would be more helpful and such, but that is not really the case for me and have decided to go back to my original plan of just simply going through the banks and getting experience before I cold call again and door knock. I just feel like they market it in a way where it is the easiest thing in the world of real estate and the best thing and it is worth the price, but it really isn't.
There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's.
. There is an active movement now to get this to the DOJ and state AG's. . @Cloey Green: So, what did you end up doing? Any update? You said: "Also, I am mainly just going to finish paying it off and then kind of just leave it since I don't really believe Pace knows what he is doing." I'm unclear why you would continue paying for something that was not what you were told.
That's why I keep paying for it, because I entered a contract to pay the full $10k until it is paid off. I am just paying it off over time.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
The answers come from other newbies. Lol.
I’ve went to group trainings before with other events. ( not with Pace) It was usually the folks that knew the least that talked the most were clueless that they were clueless and were clueless that they were obnoxious.
Exactly!! I thought there would be more seasoned, experienced investors, but all of the answers to my questions were from newbies like you said! After researching more about PAce and watching his videos after watching some real information from Bigger Pockets and other REIs, stuff like, fixing a place, what is actually a good and whatnot, I realize Pace doesn't really know anything. Or if he does know anything, he isn't sharing anything.
One of his philosophies is to buy at the seller's price (even if it is more than what the market is saying and such) to "help the buyer and that is a good deal." I can understand wanting to create win/win solutions, but I don't think that is the route I would want to go down and personally, I am not really out here to help sellers who are in foreclosure. At least yet. I want to build my wealth, gain experience, help people along the way and then maybe help people in foreclosures or something. But I would rather just buy the property from the bank after it is foreclosed either at auction or when it doesn't pass auction.
Exactly!! I thought there would be more seasoned, experienced investors, but all of the answers to my questions were from newbies like you said! After researching more about PAce and watching his videos after watching some real information from Bigger Pockets and other REIs, stuff like, fixing a place, what is actually a good and whatnot, I realize Pace doesn't really know anything. Or if he does know anything, he isn't sharing anything.
One of his philosophies is to buy at the seller's price (even if it is more than what the market is saying and such) to "help the buyer and that is a good deal." I can understand wanting to create win/win solutions, but I don't think that is the route I would want to go down and personally, I am not really out here to help sellers who are in foreclosure. At least yet. I want to build my wealth, gain experience, help people along the way and then maybe help people in foreclosures or something. But I would rather just buy the property from the bank after it is foreclosed either at auction or when it doesn't pass auction.
Combination of both. Very little difference between Pace and Sinwar the guy who ran Hamas on October 7.
Exactly!! I thought there would be more seasoned, experienced investors, but all of the answers to my questions were from newbies like you said! After researching more about PAce and watching his videos after watching some real information from Bigger Pockets and other REIs, stuff like, fixing a place, what is actually a good and whatnot, I realize Pace doesn't really know anything. Or if he does know anything, he isn't sharing anything.
One of his philosophies is to buy at the seller's price (even if it is more than what the market is saying and such) to "help the buyer and that is a good deal." I can understand wanting to create win/win solutions, but I don't think that is the route I would want to go down and personally, I am not really out here to help sellers who are in foreclosure. At least yet. I want to build my wealth, gain experience, help people along the way and then maybe help people in foreclosures or something. But I would rather just buy the property from the bank after it is foreclosed either at auction or when it doesn't pass auction.
Pace sure knows how to make Money! He is printing it with the members of his groups. That of course is the main focus for him.
Yes, it is newbies answering questions. There is no real support so when you have a Question you have to post it on facebook. How do you all like facebook LOL.
Yes the guy who was delivering pizzas last week is now posing as a REI expert. Telling you something Pace told him or he heard on Facebook. There is soo much bad info in the group.
Yes everyone is trying to sell you something in the group. Mentorships. Crappy deals, on and on.
There is tons of value in the group still. I've learned a ton and met some great people.
That said I'd still not recommend it to anyone. Way better uses of your money out there.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
Yep. I have a number of people who paid $8,800 to 15,000 send me the paperwork and many actual contracts. Forwarding them to a retired FBI agent who worked on the money trail for 9/11.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
Yep. I have a number of people who paid $8,800 to 15,000 send me the paperwork and many actual contracts. Forwarding them to a retired FBI agent who worked on the money trail for 9/11.
Hey, I am curious about the update with this. Has anything happened with it yet?
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
Yep. I have a number of people who paid $8,800 to 15,000 send me the paperwork and many actual contracts. Forwarding them to a retired FBI agent who worked on the money trail for 9/11.
Hey, I am curious about the update with this. Has anything happened with it yet?
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
Yep. I have a number of people who paid $8,800 to 15,000 send me the paperwork and many actual contracts. Forwarding them to a retired FBI agent who worked on the money trail for 9/11.
Hey, I am curious about the update with this. Has anything happened with it yet?
With what?
With sending the contracts to that fbi guy for the subto course.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
Yep. I have a number of people who paid $8,800 to 15,000 send me the paperwork and many actual contracts. Forwarding them to a retired FBI agent who worked on the money trail for 9/11.
Hey, I am curious about the update with this. Has anything happened with it yet?
With what?
With sending the contracts to that fbi guy for the subto course.
What state are you in? You just go to a search and put in "Nebraska Attorney General Complaint" for instance if you are in Nebraska. They are free and they want to know when there are problems that affect the people of the state. Some TV stations handle that kind of thing too. They have someone assigned to "Consumer Complaints."
I am in Utah. I plan on doing it sometime this week. I work late at my job, so I sleep for most of the day and I just need to file the complaint, because my experience will benefit other people when they are deciding on it they should have the truth and it really needs to be spoken of that this mentorship isn't really a mentorship. Everybody pays $10k only for everyone in the FB group to answer each others' questions and most of them are newbies themselves.
Yep. I have a number of people who paid $8,800 to 15,000 send me the paperwork and many actual contracts. Forwarding them to a retired FBI agent who worked on the money trail for 9/11.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
No problem from me on that. I'd ask the local real estate attorney if he will represent you in court if you're doing what is being taught, before I'd bet my future on it, though.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
There are definitely those people out there, but they are prevalent in all areas of real estate. When you mix money and emotions there are bound to be problems.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
No problem from me on that. I'd ask the local real estate attorney if he will represent you in court if you're doing what is being taught, before I'd bet my future on it, though.
I appreciate your concerns, truly, and do not think I am not aware of the issues that take place. I have no desire to be a "gator", be in the paid "SubTo" group, or anything in relation to. I am there to meet quality people. I vet, research, question, talk to the person that interests me, and decide from there. Red flags, answers I do not like, "off" feelings, don't pass the vibe check, anything... I move on.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
This is a civil lawsuit filed by the State of Arizona, led by Attorney General Kristin K. Mayes, in Maricopa County Superior Court.Azag+1
2. Defendants and Allegations
The complaint targets several individuals and companies—most notably Cameron Jones, Gazelle Investors, LLC, and others—accused of running an equity-stripping scheme that targeted homeowners facing foreclosure.Azag+1
3. Key Accusations
Consumer Fraud & Racketeering: Defendants allegedly preyed on distressed homeowners using deceptive tactics.
"Door knockers" were deployed to homes immediately after foreclosure notices were posted, misleading residents into thinking they were charitable or relief agents.
Deceptive Contracts: Many homeowners signed contracts that were invalid or heavily tilted in favor of the defendants, allowing acquisition of homes far below market value.
The scheme reportedly involved fraudulent bankruptcy or probate filings to delay foreclosure auctions and maintain control over properties.
Allegedly, title companies and law firms enabled the fraud by processing deeds, notarizing sales at below-market prices, enabling rapid property flips, and even filing lawsuits against victims to enforce transactions.Azag
4. Remedies Sought
Attorney General Mayes is seeking:
Civil penalties of $10,000 per instance of consumer fraud.
Dissolution of companies used as fronts.
Permanent bans preventing defendants from engaging in further real estate transactions within Arizona.
Additional penalties aimed at title firms or law firms involved—not just the primary defendants.Azag
5. Public Warning and Support
Attorney General Mayes warned that exploiting vulnerable homeowners will carry serious repercussions. The public is encouraged to report suspected equity-stripping schemes via the AG’s consumer protection office.Azag
What It Means (No Sugar-Coating)
This isn’t a small backyard dispute—the state is cracking down hard on what appears to be a systemic, predatory real estate operation.
The involvement of title firms and law firms suggests the scheme had a veneer of legitimacy, making it all the more dangerous. These professionals may now face serious liability.
The scope and depth of the remedies sought—including large financial penalties and bans—show this isn’t just a slap-on-the-wrist case; the state wants real accountability and restoration.
What You Can Do (Forward-Looking Approach)
If you’re a stakeholder or connected to the real estate community:
Stay savvy: Know how equity-stripping schemes play out in real time.
Protect clients: Especially homeowners in distress—ensure they understand the red flags: unsolicited offers, “charity-based” relief groups, contract pressure, or rapid sales.
Raise awareness: Educate vulnerable homeowners about how to recognize and report predatory schemes.
Watch the docket: Track this case in Maricopa County Superior Court. You can do that via the court’s Public Access to Court Information portal, which allows you to follow upcoming hearings, filings, and outcomes.Superior Court of Arizona
Let’s be honest: these kinds of schemes exploit people at their lowest, and they need to be stopped fast. AG Mayes isn't mincing words—she's coming after these players hard. If you want help tracking further developments or analyzing impacts on your circle, I’ve got your back.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
This is a civil lawsuit filed by the State of Arizona, led by Attorney General Kristin K. Mayes, in Maricopa County Superior Court.Azag+1
2. Defendants and Allegations
The complaint targets several individuals and companies—most notably Cameron Jones, Gazelle Investors, LLC, and others—accused of running an equity-stripping scheme that targeted homeowners facing foreclosure.Azag+1
3. Key Accusations
Consumer Fraud & Racketeering: Defendants allegedly preyed on distressed homeowners using deceptive tactics.
"Door knockers" were deployed to homes immediately after foreclosure notices were posted, misleading residents into thinking they were charitable or relief agents.
Deceptive Contracts: Many homeowners signed contracts that were invalid or heavily tilted in favor of the defendants, allowing acquisition of homes far below market value.
The scheme reportedly involved fraudulent bankruptcy or probate filings to delay foreclosure auctions and maintain control over properties.
Allegedly, title companies and law firms enabled the fraud by processing deeds, notarizing sales at below-market prices, enabling rapid property flips, and even filing lawsuits against victims to enforce transactions.Azag
4. Remedies Sought
Attorney General Mayes is seeking:
Civil penalties of $10,000 per instance of consumer fraud.
Dissolution of companies used as fronts.
Permanent bans preventing defendants from engaging in further real estate transactions within Arizona.
Additional penalties aimed at title firms or law firms involved—not just the primary defendants.Azag
5. Public Warning and Support
Attorney General Mayes warned that exploiting vulnerable homeowners will carry serious repercussions. The public is encouraged to report suspected equity-stripping schemes via the AG’s consumer protection office.Azag
What It Means (No Sugar-Coating)
This isn’t a small backyard dispute—the state is cracking down hard on what appears to be a systemic, predatory real estate operation.
The involvement of title firms and law firms suggests the scheme had a veneer of legitimacy, making it all the more dangerous. These professionals may now face serious liability.
The scope and depth of the remedies sought—including large financial penalties and bans—show this isn’t just a slap-on-the-wrist case; the state wants real accountability and restoration.
What You Can Do (Forward-Looking Approach)
If you’re a stakeholder or connected to the real estate community:
Stay savvy: Know how equity-stripping schemes play out in real time.
Protect clients: Especially homeowners in distress—ensure they understand the red flags: unsolicited offers, “charity-based” relief groups, contract pressure, or rapid sales.
Raise awareness: Educate vulnerable homeowners about how to recognize and report predatory schemes.
Watch the docket: Track this case in Maricopa County Superior Court. You can do that via the court’s Public Access to Court Information portal, which allows you to follow upcoming hearings, filings, and outcomes.Superior Court of Arizona
Let’s be honest: these kinds of schemes exploit people at their lowest, and they need to be stopped fast. AG Mayes isn't mincing words—she's coming after these players hard. If you want help tracking further developments or analyzing impacts on your circle, I’ve got your back.
Keep in mind folks have been doing foreclosure rescue like this for decades.. In OR WA and to a certain extent CA made this acitivy highly regulated to illegal and that was in 2007..
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
This is a civil lawsuit filed by the State of Arizona, led by Attorney General Kristin K. Mayes, in Maricopa County Superior Court.Azag+1
2. Defendants and Allegations
The complaint targets several individuals and companies—most notably Cameron Jones, Gazelle Investors, LLC, and others—accused of running an equity-stripping scheme that targeted homeowners facing foreclosure.Azag+1
3. Key Accusations
Consumer Fraud & Racketeering: Defendants allegedly preyed on distressed homeowners using deceptive tactics.
"Door knockers" were deployed to homes immediately after foreclosure notices were posted, misleading residents into thinking they were charitable or relief agents.
Deceptive Contracts: Many homeowners signed contracts that were invalid or heavily tilted in favor of the defendants, allowing acquisition of homes far below market value.
The scheme reportedly involved fraudulent bankruptcy or probate filings to delay foreclosure auctions and maintain control over properties.
Allegedly, title companies and law firms enabled the fraud by processing deeds, notarizing sales at below-market prices, enabling rapid property flips, and even filing lawsuits against victims to enforce transactions.Azag
4. Remedies Sought
Attorney General Mayes is seeking:
Civil penalties of $10,000 per instance of consumer fraud.
Dissolution of companies used as fronts.
Permanent bans preventing defendants from engaging in further real estate transactions within Arizona.
Additional penalties aimed at title firms or law firms involved—not just the primary defendants.Azag
5. Public Warning and Support
Attorney General Mayes warned that exploiting vulnerable homeowners will carry serious repercussions. The public is encouraged to report suspected equity-stripping schemes via the AG’s consumer protection office.Azag
What It Means (No Sugar-Coating)
This isn’t a small backyard dispute—the state is cracking down hard on what appears to be a systemic, predatory real estate operation.
The involvement of title firms and law firms suggests the scheme had a veneer of legitimacy, making it all the more dangerous. These professionals may now face serious liability.
The scope and depth of the remedies sought—including large financial penalties and bans—show this isn’t just a slap-on-the-wrist case; the state wants real accountability and restoration.
What You Can Do (Forward-Looking Approach)
If you’re a stakeholder or connected to the real estate community:
Stay savvy: Know how equity-stripping schemes play out in real time.
Protect clients: Especially homeowners in distress—ensure they understand the red flags: unsolicited offers, “charity-based” relief groups, contract pressure, or rapid sales.
Raise awareness: Educate vulnerable homeowners about how to recognize and report predatory schemes.
Watch the docket: Track this case in Maricopa County Superior Court. You can do that via the court’s Public Access to Court Information portal, which allows you to follow upcoming hearings, filings, and outcomes.Superior Court of Arizona
Let’s be honest: these kinds of schemes exploit people at their lowest, and they need to be stopped fast. AG Mayes isn't mincing words—she's coming after these players hard. If you want help tracking further developments or analyzing impacts on your circle, I’ve got your back.
Keep in mind folks have been doing foreclosure rescue like this for decades.. In OR WA and to a certain extent CA made this acitivy highly regulated to illegal and that was in 2007..
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
This is a civil lawsuit filed by the State of Arizona, led by Attorney General Kristin K. Mayes, in Maricopa County Superior Court.Azag+1
2. Defendants and Allegations
The complaint targets several individuals and companies—most notably Cameron Jones, Gazelle Investors, LLC, and others—accused of running an equity-stripping scheme that targeted homeowners facing foreclosure.Azag+1
3. Key Accusations
Consumer Fraud & Racketeering: Defendants allegedly preyed on distressed homeowners using deceptive tactics.
"Door knockers" were deployed to homes immediately after foreclosure notices were posted, misleading residents into thinking they were charitable or relief agents.
Deceptive Contracts: Many homeowners signed contracts that were invalid or heavily tilted in favor of the defendants, allowing acquisition of homes far below market value.
The scheme reportedly involved fraudulent bankruptcy or probate filings to delay foreclosure auctions and maintain control over properties.
Allegedly, title companies and law firms enabled the fraud by processing deeds, notarizing sales at below-market prices, enabling rapid property flips, and even filing lawsuits against victims to enforce transactions.Azag
4. Remedies Sought
Attorney General Mayes is seeking:
Civil penalties of $10,000 per instance of consumer fraud.
Dissolution of companies used as fronts.
Permanent bans preventing defendants from engaging in further real estate transactions within Arizona.
Additional penalties aimed at title firms or law firms involved—not just the primary defendants.Azag
5. Public Warning and Support
Attorney General Mayes warned that exploiting vulnerable homeowners will carry serious repercussions. The public is encouraged to report suspected equity-stripping schemes via the AG’s consumer protection office.Azag
What It Means (No Sugar-Coating)
This isn’t a small backyard dispute—the state is cracking down hard on what appears to be a systemic, predatory real estate operation.
The involvement of title firms and law firms suggests the scheme had a veneer of legitimacy, making it all the more dangerous. These professionals may now face serious liability.
The scope and depth of the remedies sought—including large financial penalties and bans—show this isn’t just a slap-on-the-wrist case; the state wants real accountability and restoration.
What You Can Do (Forward-Looking Approach)
If you’re a stakeholder or connected to the real estate community:
Stay savvy: Know how equity-stripping schemes play out in real time.
Protect clients: Especially homeowners in distress—ensure they understand the red flags: unsolicited offers, “charity-based” relief groups, contract pressure, or rapid sales.
Raise awareness: Educate vulnerable homeowners about how to recognize and report predatory schemes.
Watch the docket: Track this case in Maricopa County Superior Court. You can do that via the court’s Public Access to Court Information portal, which allows you to follow upcoming hearings, filings, and outcomes.Superior Court of Arizona
Let’s be honest: these kinds of schemes exploit people at their lowest, and they need to be stopped fast. AG Mayes isn't mincing words—she's coming after these players hard. If you want help tracking further developments or analyzing impacts on your circle, I’ve got your back.
Keep in mind folks have been doing foreclosure rescue like this for decades.. In OR WA and to a certain extent CA made this acitivy highly regulated to illegal and that was in 2007..
Yes I am aware of that. Not my first rodeo.
well that was as much for BP audience as for you.. not a lot of grey beards out there in BP land.
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
I cannot attest to him or his character, only what I have personally experienced. I have attended several local SubTo meetups and walk away everytime meeting excellent people that care for one-another. From what the organizer tells me, Pace keeps a tight hold on the quality, organization, and methods, of how the area leaders should function.
I will continue to attend them and build those networks because I feel I get value from them, not only from an investment standpoint, but from a knowledge and growth one as well.
Hmmm, that's no reason to tie yourself to a group of people. The Mafia is pretty tight with one another. Not that he's Mafia, but the point is "good feelings" don't impress judges. This isn't a Morby lawsuit, just someone doing what he teaches.
There is a difference between doing something and then later being called to account for doing it. Most of these have 3 year statute of limitations, some have 10 years SOL - from the time they are discovered. They can be discovered years later. So, the liability is decades long.
Click to enlarge
You would be well advised to read the entire summons and avoid what has been going on here
This is a civil lawsuit filed by the State of Arizona, led by Attorney General Kristin K. Mayes, in Maricopa County Superior Court.Azag+1
2. Defendants and Allegations
The complaint targets several individuals and companies—most notably Cameron Jones, Gazelle Investors, LLC, and others—accused of running an equity-stripping scheme that targeted homeowners facing foreclosure.Azag+1
3. Key Accusations
Consumer Fraud & Racketeering: Defendants allegedly preyed on distressed homeowners using deceptive tactics.
"Door knockers" were deployed to homes immediately after foreclosure notices were posted, misleading residents into thinking they were charitable or relief agents.
Deceptive Contracts: Many homeowners signed contracts that were invalid or heavily tilted in favor of the defendants, allowing acquisition of homes far below market value.
The scheme reportedly involved fraudulent bankruptcy or probate filings to delay foreclosure auctions and maintain control over properties.
Allegedly, title companies and law firms enabled the fraud by processing deeds, notarizing sales at below-market prices, enabling rapid property flips, and even filing lawsuits against victims to enforce transactions.Azag
4. Remedies Sought
Attorney General Mayes is seeking:
Civil penalties of $10,000 per instance of consumer fraud.
Dissolution of companies used as fronts.
Permanent bans preventing defendants from engaging in further real estate transactions within Arizona.
Additional penalties aimed at title firms or law firms involved—not just the primary defendants.Azag
5. Public Warning and Support
Attorney General Mayes warned that exploiting vulnerable homeowners will carry serious repercussions. The public is encouraged to report suspected equity-stripping schemes via the AG’s consumer protection office.Azag
What It Means (No Sugar-Coating)
This isn’t a small backyard dispute—the state is cracking down hard on what appears to be a systemic, predatory real estate operation.
The involvement of title firms and law firms suggests the scheme had a veneer of legitimacy, making it all the more dangerous. These professionals may now face serious liability.
The scope and depth of the remedies sought—including large financial penalties and bans—show this isn’t just a slap-on-the-wrist case; the state wants real accountability and restoration.
What You Can Do (Forward-Looking Approach)
If you’re a stakeholder or connected to the real estate community:
Stay savvy: Know how equity-stripping schemes play out in real time.
Protect clients: Especially homeowners in distress—ensure they understand the red flags: unsolicited offers, “charity-based” relief groups, contract pressure, or rapid sales.
Raise awareness: Educate vulnerable homeowners about how to recognize and report predatory schemes.
Watch the docket: Track this case in Maricopa County Superior Court. You can do that via the court’s Public Access to Court Information portal, which allows you to follow upcoming hearings, filings, and outcomes.Superior Court of Arizona
Let’s be honest: these kinds of schemes exploit people at their lowest, and they need to be stopped fast. AG Mayes isn't mincing words—she's coming after these players hard. If you want help tracking further developments or analyzing impacts on your circle, I’ve got your back.
Keep in mind folks have been doing foreclosure rescue like this for decades.. In OR WA and to a certain extent CA made this acitivy highly regulated to illegal and that was in 2007..
Yes I am aware of that. Not my first rodeo.
well that was as much for BP audience as for you.. not a lot of grey beards out there in BP land.
Is Pace Morby a Scam? Is that the guy that is all over Facebook now buying RV parks? What's he doing that's a scam. I knew there was some controversy, but it wasn't clear on why to stay away from him.
He is NOT a scam.. he sells how to education up to the buyer to decide if its going to work for them. BP is not generally kind to education gurus..
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
1y
It’s getting to the point where an investor merely purchasing a property from a home owner for a price that APPEARS below market value is a potential complaint target by the AG. Add a sophisticated or at least systematic marketing plan and apparently you’ve got the basis of criminal legal action.
No one wants their elderly parents scammed out of their life savings, but I still believe in the rule of law. Politicians and government regulators DON'T. So, I exited SFR real estate 20 years ago, save the occasional purchase when dealing with an investor who owns multiple properties. Dealing with commercial properties, business to business, I find is much clearer with a lot less chance of liability over "you paid too little" type accusations.
Go to trust pilot. He's a scam. I've been in his subto and gator for several years. He is a snake and the program is garbage. He's destroyed lives in that program. People have been robbed and scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. BTW - Isn't bearded brandon a BP speaker also? That clown just lost a bunch of investor money and he's still out there living the high life raising money.
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2w
Quote from @Justin Buswell:
Go to trust pilot. He's a scam. I've been in his subto and gator for several years. He is a snake and the program is garbage. He's destroyed lives in that program. People have been robbed and scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. BTW - Isn't bearded brandon a BP speaker also? That clown just lost a bunch of investor money and he's still out there living the high life raising money.
Thanks for the update - anything you know first hand should also be posted at https://www.ripoffreport.com/ to help others.
Here is what the department of contracting in Arizona says about him
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2w
thats a contractors licensee and could have been revoked for any number of reasons like failure to get a bond and insurance. Not defending the guy in any way but I have worked with many contractors over the years and they are forever getting their licenses suspeded revoked for insurance reasons. he would not have gotten his license back if it was a major issue as is evidenced by your information you just posted. This has nothing to do with be a sub to gator guru.
But I agree teaching sub to to the mass's or really anyone without a very deep knowledge of real estate and a lot of money behind them is going to leave a lot of innocent sellers in a big mess. and we are seeing it now with laws being passed highly regulating this type of transaction at least how it relates to sub to in a foreclosure distress situation.
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2w
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
thats a contractors licensee and could have been revoked for any number of reasons like failure to get a bond and insurance. Not defending the guy in any way but I have worked with many contractors over the years and they are forever getting their licenses suspeded revoked for insurance reasons. he would not have gotten his license back if it was a major issue as is evidenced by your information you just posted. This has nothing to do with be a sub to gator guru.
But I agree teaching sub to to the mass's or really anyone without a very deep knowledge of real estate and a lot of money behind them is going to leave a lot of innocent sellers in a big mess. and we are seeing it now with laws being passed highly regulating this type of transaction at least how it relates to sub to in a foreclosure distress situation.
There is worse information about him out there - like ripping off employees, but the point is one of integrity. Losing your license, shows he lacks integrity. Do you know how hard it is to lose your license?. He could get it back by paying the debt or he could go into coaching, which is what he has done.
Those debts remain unpaid.
He supposedly has plenty of money to make right with the people who trusted him, that he ripped off and still hasn't taken care of it.
He talks about not worrying about the Due on Sale clause when he had 10 called and the only solution was to borrow money to pay off the loans to the tune of $3,000,000 all documented. You don't hear about that. How many of his trainees who have to borrow money for his membership can come up with money to pay off an ill conceived failed investment? That's what gets people sued.
In my opinion, from what he describes and from some documents I've seen, he practices something called "equity stripping" or at least predatory foreclosure rescue, which is a federal offense that he teaches his students who don't know the difference.
I mean, it's one thing to take the chance yourself, but to teach others, who borrowed money to pay you to join your club, that it's okay to do that stuff, is pretty brazen.
Now he and a friend of his are named in a major lawsuit.
His friend mentions it on a youtube video and Pace Morby just grunts. Yeah, lawsuits happen all the time but when your source of revenue is memberships that people buy because you tell them they can buy houses with no money, off the MLS using Sub To, borrow money from "gator lenders' to pay the real estate agents fee, and then end up dumping the property if it doesn't work out, is slimy in my book. Think of the poor seller who trusted the buyer.
Discussed and documented on Facebook and Youtube.
I've never been involved in his schemes, I don't know him, I don't trust him by reputation, but to quote an earlier post:
"He's destroyed lives in that program. People have been robbed and scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars"
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2w
Me personally i could give a rip about his students or clients my ONLY concern is the poor sellers who are naive and talked into these transactions and stand to lose their credit and many times their marriage . the students no puts a gun to their head if they lose money or a gator lender loses big deal thats the breaks.. But innocent sellers talked into these transactions those are the true victims.
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2w
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Me personally i could give a rip about his students or clients my ONLY concern is the poor sellers who are naive and talked into these transactions and stand to lose their credit and many times their marriage . the students no puts a gun to their head if they lose money or a gator lender loses big deal thats the breaks.. But innocent sellers talked into these transactions those are the true victims.
I agree. Anyone who is greedy enough to believe that having no money in buying real estate is a smart thing, gets what he deserves. Life lessons, the hard way.
What is curious though is why Bigger Pocket promotes that behavior which negatively affects the selling public by selling his books and having him as a guest speaker. Isn't having someone like that as a guest speaker an implicit endorsement?
Does that mean you can't trust Bigger Pockets to use reasonable discretion in other areas?
Is it caveat emptor, investor beware?
Yes, of course, that why we take great pains to train our real estate investors to be honest, and disclose, disclose, disclose. There is plenty of money to be made by staying honest and not winding up in court.
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2w
good question I know that vendors that are in the meeting rooms like lenders TK companies PMs etc etc pretty sure they pay for their vendor space like most of these events do..
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2w
Yes vendors pay a big $ to be in the room - not sure on speakers but I know when I go to some events the main speaker or some of the speakers charge a hefty fee - some cases you pay to speak others they pay you depending on your influence
Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2026 · 538 posts · 300 votes
2w
Three years later, this post is still useful — but probably for the opposite reason intended.
Nothing here actually answers whether Pace Morby is a scam. What it does show is how easy it is to confuse access, community, charisma, generosity, and activity with investment return.
Those things can all be real. They still are not underwriting.
The sentence that matters most is: “I lost my job… I’m living off cash reserves… there is a well-dry date looming.”
At that point, the question is no longer “Is Pace good?” It becomes: “Should someone with a shrinking runway deploy scarce capital into education whose return is uncertain and time-dependent?”
That is a completely different decision.
If I were evaluating any guru program today, I’d ignore testimonials first and ask:
What specifically will I be able to do after paying that I cannot do now?
How quickly can that capability reasonably produce cash?
What percentage of members actually execute, not just participate?
What additional capital will I need after buying the education?
What is my downside if I get zero deals?
Does this purchase extend my runway or shorten it?
A great community can still be a bad investment for the person buying it at that moment.
That distinction matters more than whether the guru is likable, visible, or legitimate.
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2w
Quote from @Michael Eskenasy:
Three years later, this post is still useful — but probably for the opposite reason intended.
Nothing here actually answers whether Pace Morby is a scam. What it does show is how easy it is to confuse access, community, charisma, generosity, and activity with investment return.
Those things can all be real. They still are not underwriting.
The sentence that matters most is: “I lost my job… I’m living off cash reserves… there is a well-dry date looming.”
At that point, the question is no longer “Is Pace good?” It becomes: “Should someone with a shrinking runway deploy scarce capital into education whose return is uncertain and time-dependent?”
That is a completely different decision.
If I were evaluating any guru program today, I’d ignore testimonials first and ask:
What specifically will I be able to do after paying that I cannot do now?
How quickly can that capability reasonably produce cash?
What percentage of members actually execute, not just participate?
What additional capital will I need after buying the education?
What is my downside if I get zero deals?
Does this purchase extend my runway or shorten it?
A great community can still be a bad investment for the person buying it at that moment.
That distinction matters more than whether the guru is likable, visible, or legitimate.
If anybody is considering one of these programs now, feel free to reach out. I’d be happy to help you underwrite the education itself like an investment before you spend the money.
People unfamiliar with the law shouldn't be teaching other people how to do such things.
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2w
Quote from @David Hori:
I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.
Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being.
Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.
Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.
What can be verified is:
He is currently being sued for breach of contract and monetary damages
Case: Franklin French Devine II v. Pace Morby et al.
Case #2026-010313-CA-01
Filed: May 20, 2026
Court: Circuit Court of the Eleventh Judicial Circuit in and for Miami-Dade County, Florida
Case type: Contract & Indebtedness / Breach of Contract
Pace Morby is expressly named as an individual defendant, along with:
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2w
Contract case with a former employee (these are not uncommon). I did get a chuckle about how his own attorney defines him. Boy he better have a $450M rea estate empire or that could eventually get him in some really hot water. BTW what is a raconteur?
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2w
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Contract case with a former employee (these are not uncommon). I did get a chuckle about how his own attorney defines him. Boy he better have a $450M rea estate empire or that could eventually get him in some really hot water. BTW what is a raconteur?
A "raconteur" is "an excellent story teller".
By all accounts, he is certainly at least that. It used to be called the "fake it until you make it crowd".
Well, "Boy he better have a $450M rea estate empire" does that include the $460M in debt or is that profit? :-) That's (1,125) one thousand one hundred twenty five $400,000 houses. At his trajectory he has 200 houses at most that have been transferred to his name and LLCs. A lot of those transfers are under $100,000, such as mobile homes and land.
So, likelihood of him having a $450,000,000 real estate empire, nah - not possible - but, it would be interesting if his court case forced him to prove it
He is currently being sued for breach of contract and monetary damages
Case: Franklin French Devine II v. Pace Morby et al.
Case #2026-010313-CA-01
Filed: May 20, 2026
Court: Circuit Court of the Eleventh Judicial Circuit in and for Miami-Dade County, Florida
Case type: Contract & Indebtedness / Breach of Contract
Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2w
I'm not going to support or bash anyone, but here is what I would recommend. Go to LinkedIn and look of the background/resume of anyone you plan to do business with. Do they truly have experience in the field they are teaching? If they are teaching private lending of any type, have they personally managed through a downturn? In every downturn I've been through, the first people that lose their money are the ones lending at super-high LTVs without considering capacity or character (New Century, Ameriquest, The Money Store...I could go on forever). Is the person a tremendous marketer that can sell themselves well with no real background, or do they have a great deal of experience in lending, real estate investing, note investing...or whatever they are teaching? There is a massive difference between someone that knows those subjects and someone that is great at marketing. Do your research and make up your own mind based on people that really know their stuff. That's advice from someone that's done this 35 years. If you take it...well...that's up to you.
