So today while flipping channels, I came across a infomercial for Than Merrill. I guess he is in Chicago, so I watched it for a few minutes. He talked a lot about some "secrets" to RE success. I have never taken a guru course, but what are these "secrets"? I had zero real estate experience when I started out, but I had an accounting background, so everything boiled down to numbers for me. I invested in rental properties, so I started with how much rental income I wanted to make, how much it would take to fix a house and the purchase price was the plug. Starting out I found all these properties right on MLS that everyone else could bid on. That's pretty much all I did and I learned it right here at BP. His student testimonials talked about some "strategies". Anyone who has attended a guru course, what "secrets" and "strategies" did you learn from these courses that you weren't able to from BP and other online resources?

Secret #1: study hard Secret #2: take action Secret #3: don't give money to anyone who claims there are other secrets

NOOOOOOOO!!!!! You could have charged each BP member $25,000 for these secrets!! Wow, I can't believe you gave these away for free.

There are no secrets. Only 'salesmen' pitching the same thing for years now. Does this sound familiar?

The seminars are going to be good for getting you to think about strategies and ideas that perhaps you've never considered before. Does that make these strategies and ideas "secrets"? Nope, but thinking about new stuff is always a good thing, and once you have the gist of the idea firmly implanted in your brain, there are going to be a lot of places you can go to round out your knowledge of the strategy. That's why I'm a fan of the free seminars and even the $29, $59 and $99 seminars -- they get you to think about new ideas (new to you, at least) and give you ideas you can go research and learn without paying the $10K or $25K the gurus want in order to teach you the same stuff (but probably not as thoroughly as you'd learn on your own). The seminars are also great for motivating you to take action...but if you need motivation to take action, you may want to consider doing something else for a living... :) Just my $.02...

I really like what @Joel Owens said. However, perhaps some have no money for marketing. But It is still so possible to start in this business. I have a friend I have known over 30 years who has gone from job to job. Very smart but job to job. A month ago he called and asked me to come over to help him with something. When I got there he wanted to show off his brand new Rich Dad Poor Dad software he was going to use to get rich in RE investing. I sat him down and told him to read the marketing threads in BP for 2 hours a day until he read everything or he had actually mailed letters or something. I told him to think of and write down every reason a person might want to sell and then separate the ways that might have motivation linked to them. I told him to knock on doors of potential motivated sellers from the list he made ie foreclosure or what ever. Then I told him to knock on more doors and talk to more people. Then I told him to get his RE license while doing all of this. I even told him one of my "secrets" to find deals as long as he promised to stay out of my county :). My "secret" takes a few hours a week but does produce deals. Just closed on one doing this Friday and had it sold on Friday for a real nice spread. I told my friend I will help him every step of the way but he has to do what I told him first. Most people want the easy way; I hope he takes the hard way. As for my "secret", I'm not going to tell. But if one will make the list I spoke of and look for something that everyone and their dog is not going after and knock on doors, one will find a deal. I havn't done this but I bet if one picked the correct neighborhood and knocked on every door and asked the right questions, one could find a deal within a few months. Once one has the money, more efficient ways of marketing can be done.

@Joel Owens Agreed RE is such a big field NO one knows it all or even close to it. And as we gain experience we learn new things. A lot of what we learn is by doing it.. Trial and Error. Making boo boo's learning from those boo boo's. The reality is what most investors gravitate to when they are starting out is what is most visible in their daily lives and that's basically flipping houses ERGO HGTV and all the off shoot celebrity flipper shows and people, then those guys get a name and morph into the the Seminar bizz. Its just a business of selling information and willing buyer and willing seller comes to play.. And unless one was handed an already operating profitable RE business we ALL started as newbies never have done a deal,, little or no cash, and somehow figured out how to succeed.. Those with backgrounds in finance and Marketing and construction. Have a distinct advantage over those with no fundamental RE knowledge. This is why for me I think a good suggestion to those starting out is get a RE license that will at least teach you the terminology and laws of the land.. And most RE companies give those course's for free or nominal costs ( in the hopes you will work for them when you pass the test.) For me personally I had good background in Sales and Marketing, but I hired the accounting, and construction I have just learned by trial and error and or hired people that new that field. But when your starting out which is like we are stating 90% of the audience here they have to be all things. So that is where a seminar or paid mentorship could be a benefit to some... Not all but to some. and especially those that can afford it. AS for little secrets my favorite that I learned was standing in the basement of this lovely bricker in Detroit the rehabber was working and they were painting the copper pipes grey.. I asked why are you doing that.. Response.. When the thieves come in at night looking for copper they see these grey pipes and think its Galvanized and they don't have value and they don't steal them... Nice little touch and a trade secret Eh.

Any type of business you are in it's all about MARKETING. The companies you see with a profitable balance sheet typically have a very good marketing campaign. What I have learned after decades is there are no secrets only information I haven't learned yet. Many people want to be lazy and make money so they buy into these types of "easily change your life" programs. Everyday I get up with the mentality that I know nothing so that it opens my mind to absorb the most information possible to increase my knowledge and competency. People BUY into the DREAM but they do not realize that the dream is nothing more than actionable steps and a continual process of where they want to go in life. Nike had one of the best slogans out there "Just do it ! " I would rather taste failure from trying than fear from never taking the first step.

Funny, I got a random call at 11pm last night from a guy across the country who was about ready to sign up for Fortune Builder's $25K coaching program. By the time the conversation was done, he had decided (on his own) to spend $2000 working 1:1 with a local coach instead. I saved him $23,000 and he'll probably get better instruction from the local investor/coach...I feel I've done my good deed for the week... :-)

Something we aren't likely to find out is the extent of BP's impact on the guru market. I really only have three reasons to be here; 1, I enjoy talking about RE, 2. I want to educate and encourage ethical dealing leading others making a great living, 3. Put those who prey on the public with unethical dealings or promoting illegal and bad information out of business, to get the scammers out of the industry. 3. Won't likely happen as they pop up like weeds. There will always be crooks. There will always be those wanting an easy buck off others with little effort. There will also be an endless supply of people wanting to make money in RE with the least amount of effort, who believe if they just get the secret of some strategy that's all they need to be in the RE business. If you can attend some seminar on RE and meet other folks there, for the price of a night out with a dinner and a movie, then by all means, go have fun! Just have the common sense to know what is said may not be true and their goal is to get in your pocket, not to make you rich, but them. :)

Sharad - some good and accurate posts here. I don't know Than Merrill however I do know many of the people who've claimed real estate success but went down in flames. Here is the secret: Most people never follow through and give up! I had this very conversation at lunch yesterday with a well-known trainer. Statistics are probably 80-90%+ of people don't apply what they learn. I've been on both sides of this equation for close to 40 years! Add to this the challenge of managing people's expectations and you have a recipe for only a handful of really successful real estate investors. This is human nature. It's not unique to real estate. Substitute dieting, gym, etc. if you don't belive me, get the BP people to survey members and see what percentage of posters here have even done a single deal! This is also the problem that brings down trainers. If you sell education to people who get excited by a TV show or some mass media, and have your top students testify as to their success, thereby proving the material works, you're going to have a lot of people who never take the shrink wrapper off the course or leave the couch but are unhappy with the (lack of) results of the training. Don't let BPers tell you otherwise; there are secrets in real estate investing! If I were you, however, I'd hold off spending much money on training until you find that the tools you have are insufficient for the job you are tying to do. That's when specialty tools are good investments - when you know that you're going to use them. Imagine that...a wrench for every nut.

What are the "secrets" and "strategies"?

Wendell De Guzman

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

@Sharad M. , I will help you acquire more properties. Let's talk.

0 Reply

Larry Smet

Flipper / Rehabber / Real Estate Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 392 posts · 77 votes

12y

Originally posted by Account Closed:

Thanks Sharad for asking this question.

Back in 2003 when I started investing in real estate, there was no BP. So, I had to learn from the gurus. I bought a $20 book and a $60 course on cassette tapes (I know...I am old) from a guru . I made $10K on my first deal so...are the "secrets" worth it? The answer is YES.

Now that there's BP and a lot of information can be researched and found online...do you still need the gurus? Not so much. The supposedly "secrets" are out in the open and can be acquired at a much cheaper price than the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars that these gurus charge.

I like @J Scott 's approach of listening to the free seminars or webinars to learn some little new twists to an old strategy or get some new ideas. I do the exact same thing. I am humble enough to realize I don't know everything but I am skeptical that the gurus know something that can not be found at a much cheaper price. I benefited from a guru idea recently. Implemented it in my business and I am getting 2 new properties a month because of it.

Listen to the gurus for ideas but don't buy their overpriced courses. Research the rest of it here on BP and some books about the topic. The "secrets" are not really secrets anymore. Or at least, they don't cost as much as the gurus want us to believe.

Hi Wendel

Now you've made us curious as to what is the guru idea that has increased your deal flow so dramatically. Can you share our did the guru swear you to secrecy? :)

Thanks ,

Larry

0 Reply

Rachel H.

San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

The web is a great tool and resource to find information and learn in this day and age. With that being said, there is still a place for books and courses because information can be found in one place — there is a beginning and an end. With the web, it may be piecemeal which can work for some individuals.

After spending thousands on books, courses and seminars, I'd have to say it is the conglomeration of the information learned in the materials as well as the experience gained from applying these principles that has led me to where I am today.

With that being said, I have never met a successful real estate investor who has never bought a book, course and/or attended a seminar.

Just my experience. Hope that helps!

1 Reply

Wendell De Guzman

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

@Larry Smet , if you pay me $25,000 I will share with you the secret on how to buy houses from HUD (hahaha!)

or you can just go to this website and bid (through a HUD certified agent): http://hudhomestore.com

@Rachel H. , I agree with you. Guru or no guru, every successful real estate investor has gotten some real estate education first. The point though of Sharad's question is whether paying these gurus $25,000 for these "real estate secrets" is really worth it or not. In today's internet world where we have BP...I think the guru's products are now way overpriced. By the way, I can see that you are into mobile homes. I just bought 2 mobile homes in Florida this Tuesday. The returns are awesome. It's good to see another mobile home investor here on BP.

1 Reply

Wendell De Guzman

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

@Rachel H. , I don't know why the @ sign above did not work. Just calling on you.

0 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

Hello Rachel, you too Wendell, my name is Bill Gulley, I never bought a guru book in my life, ever, I never bought any type of guru materials. I also got my education before the internet was around. I have skimmed some of the old books at the library waiting for my kids to get done with their activities, saying I didn't go looking for the stuff.

I am not such a genius or unique that I succeeded in RE ventures without guru stuff, exceptional maybe, LOL, but almost anyone can learn what I know or learned along the way.

I keep hearing folks giving gurus credit for where they are in their investing career, while they may be making a living or making money, I have to snicker a bit. I've seen their posts and have a pretty good idea of their knowledge. Clearly thinking they know but not knowing or being under some false assumptions. Bad information never corrected can carry on as truth for many years.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for many here, old pros and newbies demonstrating an effort to learn. Have to respect those jumping in starting out. I also remember a few of our popular posters from years ago when they started or had a few years experience and I've watched them advance and have become much more informed in topics. So, I watched the impact made by BP. Keep learning, I assure you, you don't need to spend thousands with gurus to learn this business. :)

0 Reply

Eric Belgau

Insurance Agent · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 168 posts · 88 votes

12y

I should start with my disclaimer: not only am I not a coach, I'm a guy who walked away from a full college scholarship over an argument with my "Foucault in Context" prof. I zealously differentiate "study" from "learning." The former without the latter is a tragic waste of time. I have a very short fuse when it comes to selling useless "education."

With that disclaimer in place, here's my rant.

My dad always told me to ignore the details of a thing until I understood its basic operating principles, and this is one of the best pieces of advice he ever gave. In our humble real estate journey, we bought a rental and studied everything that related to it and its performance over a few years. We bought a home at a significant discount and rehabbed it as our primary residence, and we studied every aspect of that deal. These are pretty simple, but they've taught us a ton of basic stuff. Our next deal will be a combination of the two, which will teach us more. We're learning basic operating principles and moving slowly enough to learn well as we go.

Increment over excrement.

Being on BP and reading the insights posted here makes that synapse (or brain gap) fire in regard to those basic operating principles. It presents a diversity of perspective, which really helps to ferret out the disadvantages of various approaches (some of which seem very good at first glance) and to see issues from multiple points of view.

In contrast, gurus don't present diverse perspectives. They present a single perspective. They have to. That's the formula they've created, the inefficiency they've identified, the loophole they've discovered. They don't present basic operating principles; they present prefabricated systems that you can follow (on faith) without understanding the principles.

In my opinion, that's dangerous. Using somebody's formula can easily involve using some kind of exotic deal-making. If the students don't fully understand all the ins and outs of that exotic deal, they can open themselves up to significant liability. And as real estate law gets more complicated it's easier and easier to inadvertently break laws.

@Bill Gulley is right. Taking some courses and drinking with construction workers is a great education. If you drink enough, who knows, maybe the girls in the dive bars start to look like bikini models!

1 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

True Eric, but I hope you finish college as it will be worth it later on, especially if you stay in insurance. Good luck :)

0 Reply

Eric Belgau

Insurance Agent · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 168 posts · 88 votes

12y

Yes, I agree. That was almost 18 years ago, and I did go back. Just a different school - and I had to pay for it. :)

0 Reply

Bryan L.

Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes

12y

@Sharad M. - Sharad, I have a new perspective on this now, because I recently signed up for some sales coaching/training. And I am learning "strategies" that I previously did not know. So in a sense they were "secret" to me, although most successful sales people already know them. They didn't really advertise them as "secret" though, but they did promote the idea of teaching "techniques". And it's NOT costing me 10's of thousands of dollars either. I fully expect to make my money back with increased business.

1 Reply

Sharad M.Pro Member

OP

Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

@Bryan L. That's a great point. I think @J Scott said something similar that he attends some of these to learn a few things. Both you guys are very successful at what you do and once you guys get exposed to an idea, you explore more and then make it work.

Podcast Guest on Show #155

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Bob T.

Investor · Chicagoland, IL · Member since 2013 · 44 posts · 9 votes

12y

Everyone learn differently at different rate.

Some jump in naked.

Some take classes, coaching etc.

Some study with book/BP etc.

As long at the end of all that time, $, energy they take a positive step toward their own goal, I think that is secret! The secret is your own journey, which no one knows until you talk (blog) about it ;-) how much you want to charge for it is up what the market is welling to paid.

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What are the "secrets" and "strategies"?

What are the "secrets" and "strategies"?

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