What makes someone qualified to be a guru/coach/mentor?

Kevin Sobilo

Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

@Becca F., I don't think licensing is warranted because they aren't representing you or selling you actual investments. They are providing you education and guidance/coaching unlike a financial planner who would bring investment options to you including ones where they themselves stand to gain from the sale.

You are VERY much correct that its difficult to know who can provide you the value. You can't look at their bona fides and just know who will be worthwhile to work with. Someone with a large portfolio might have a system that works for them and which they have maximized but which might not translate well to your market, your personality or your approach to investing.

Conversely, someone with a smaller portfolio might have a WIDE variety of experiences and expertise in a lot of areas because they are hands-on in all aspects of investing and could give you guidance you can employ in ways that suit you best.

There is licensing and certifications for real estate agents. How many of them would you consider competent? How many would you consider "experts"? I don't see that the license or certifications are helping people sort out the good from the bad there either.

I think the best you can hope for are detailed INDEPENDENT reviews about the services. So, that you can get a fair idea of what value they provide before you jump in.

Becca F.

OP

Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

@Nathan Gesner I noticed that too - their videos pop up on my Instagram feed. Literally everyone is a RE coach or some type of finance expert (typically buying stocks/index funds some crypto) and they talk on and on about "contact me about how to be successful and free from your W2 job. I'm a self made millionaire"

Here is Guru#1 site: "We have students buying rental properties anywhere from $65,000 to $200,000 and cash-flowing a minimum of $300 per month to well over $2,400 per month. No matter your experience, you can have your first successful rental property in a matter of month"

As far as those claims, I could see this happening buying in 2008, 2015 or 2020. In 2024 buying a $200,000 property that cash flows $2400 a month and buying a property in a month...yeah and I'm the Queen of England.

It takes much longer than a month to research different markets, neighborhoods, getting the Core 4 team, especially if buying OOS.

Travis TimmonsPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

2y

@Becca F. you and I both have been around long enough to know that the deal that gets touted at closing is far different than end of year actuals. Rent being $300 more than PITI is not cash flow of $300/month.

And the $2400/month cash flow is probably a short term rental that started in peak season. For example, one could cash flow $2400 on a $200k purchase here in Maine if your first month was July. The $600 heating oil bill + little to no rental income + PITI in January will balance your actual numbers out for the year. There's just always more to the story, and there is no easy money as I see it.

Becca F.

OP

Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Becca F., I don't think licensing is warranted because they aren't representing you or selling you actual investments. They are providing you education and guidance/coaching unlike a financial planner who would bring investment options to you including ones where they themselves stand to gain from the sale.

There is licensing and certifications for real estate agents. How many of them would you consider competent? How many would you consider "experts"? I don't see that the license or certifications are helping people sort out the good from the bad there either.

On the coaching part, in-person personal trainers or online fitness coaches are required to be hold some sort of certification, as far as know. It seems like a free for all with RE gurus now... I joked on another post that I should start a cat tree flipping coaching program (buy cat trees on Amazon then renovate them with top of the line cat toys and decor (Disney theme, bird theme etc and charge more, which is the flip)...someone might actually pay for it lol

I agree with you there agents who are licensed and not competent, I attended an open house here and the agent didn't know about non-QM financing. Many of the homes and condo complexes are near wildfire areas in California and the buyer is unable to qualify for conventional financing with Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loans because many insurance companies won't cover the property. The agent looked at me puzzled and I suggested that this agent might want to research this.

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Nick C.

Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

The only qualifications you need are narcissism and charisma. It also helps if you don’t have a soul. That way when your victims, oops I mean students, inevitably fail you can keep finding others to fleece, and sleep like a baby at night.

4 Reply

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

@Becca F.

To me, it comes down to their experience, their results, and the community they've built that has the results they are trying to deliver.

Coaching is only one part of the fulfillment. You're looking for all the coach's contacts, resources and the people that are in the community that you can possibly partner with.

I've worked with coaches who have done what I'm looking to do, whether to invest in real estate, scale my business, or become a better public speaker.

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Becca F.:

I could see this happening buying in 2008, 2015 or 2020.

Exactly. I am a self-made millionaire. I have 33 rentals and 135 storage units, with a net income of around $150,000 a year. However, I did it the old-fashioned way: increased earnings, reduced expenses, saved, and invested. I mainly bought run-down properties that took a lot of money and time to bring them up to par. It's not sexy, and 24-year-olds would rather spend thousands listening to a YouTuber who promises secret shortcuts that tickle their ears.

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4 Reply

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly

Your post is offensive to any coach out there trying to do the right thing. The internet has a way of highlighting all the scams out there, but fail to mention the ones that are doing good work.

I lack the charisma, but I do have a soul and a successful community.

Nick C.

Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

@Gino Barbaro

My post wasn't directed at coaches trying to do the right thing. It was directed at gurus who do the wrong thing. If you're doing the right thing, that's great to hear, but you're in the minority.

GENERALLY speaking, I find that people are either good at real estate investing, or they're good at self promotion, but rarely are they good at both.

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly

Once again, how would you know it's the minority. Most coaches don't even self promote, or you've never heard of them. Most coaches can't self promote. They're not generating enough income to. They are doing one on one calls. That is the reality of coaching.

Nick C.

Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

@Gino Barbaro

I don't know. Until there's a database that tells us all the good coaches and bad gurus, I can only comment on what I've observed over the last 15 years. You say there's a bunch of coaches I've never heard of, that's fine, but I can't comment on them if I've never heard of them.

I have heard of dozens if not hundreds of gurus teaching dated tactics, like "how to buy foreclosures" to thousands of desperate people. Getting them to raise their credit card limits to attend their seminars, purchase their CD's, and go on their bus tours.

But they're not really selling CDs are they? They're selling a dream using buzz words like "escape the rat race", "be your own boss", "financial freedom", and "spend more time with your family". All the victims/students ever get is more debt.

But you're saying this isn't you, so I'm not sure why you'd be offended.

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly

Because when someone is serious about transforming their life, and they constantly hear the marketplace is full of scammers, they decide to sit out and miss an opportunity.

The other problem is that most people don't put in the work to achieve the results. You can buy any program out there, but if you're not willing to put in the work for an extended period of time, it's not gonna work

Chris SeveneyBusiness Member

Moderator

Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes

2y

@Nathan Gesner

Agree 100%.

Also a comment about someone saying it’s the student who doesn’t perform - as a coach / teacher do these people take someone’s money knowing they will fail?

What is their acceptance policy

My guess is if they have the cash they will take it - I would be one to guess rarely if ever do they turn someone away.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Gino Barbaro:

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Because when someone is serious about transforming their life, and they constantly hear the marketplace is full of scammers, they decide to sit out and miss an opportunity.

The other problem is that most people don't put in the work to achieve the results. You can buy any program out there, but if you're not willing to put in the work for an extended period of time, it's not gonna work

I personally have a pretty big back ground in the paid for training.. Not as a trainer or guru but as a Back of the room Vendor ( Lender to the students looking to fix and flip or BRRR)
the high profile guru's just take a page out of Amway and MLM .. huge budgets professional actors as there front folks .. presentations that are geared to what everyone wants financial freedom and more time with the kiddos thats the hot buttons.. And they are very good at it they have fulfillment companies mainly out of Utah that run that end of it.. So Nick is correct with a lot of his thought process..

And I think I know where Gino is going.. I also know Trainers that as Gino says are not on the circuit and they charge quite a bit 100k or more.. But will only take on say 8 to 10 students for a one year program and its very involved I know a few students that have gone on to big things after being in those programs.. But its up to each individual to determine the value..

And for sure having sat through years and years of these events and talking to hundreds if not thousand students you can kind of tell who will do well and who probably does not have the chops to succeed..

I think Becca though is talking about this decades crop of up starts not the big players that have million dollar a month budgets. I don't have instagram so not sure what that is or how the folks talk on it.. I see a little bit on U tube. most of it though as she notes the folks in my mind dont really have the background or experience.. But hey its America right..

However we can all thank Amway for how this stuff is presented thats the bottom line

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2 Reply

V.G JasonPro Member

Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Gino Barbaro:

Your post is offensive to any coach out there trying to do the right thing. The internet has a way of highlighting all the scams out there, but fail to mention the ones that are doing good work.

I lack the charisma, but I do have a soul and a successful community.

This is exactly the type of response Nick's comments would draw from the type.

The best coaches in the world have nothing to sell you, have done mostly everything you're trying to do and pass the guidance without being loud about it. There's people on this forum that are infinitely more successful than you can imagine--that pass the wisdom and don't charge a thing. They do it cause they aren't narcissists, understand recourse, have experienced downfalls, and learned things in between all those to feel like the part in life they're at is to pass it forward.

Seek those people, not self proclaimed "coaches" and gurus.

2 Reply

Stuart UdisPro Member

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

From what I've observed most "gurus" or coaches teach concepts that can easily be learned by reading these forums or through content found online. Alternatively they completed one unicorn deal in their life and then turn that into a course while failing to tell those who sign up the years and years it took to run down the one seller willing to agree to their loopy terms. Usually the loopy terms are exaggerated compared to the deal they actually transacted on because they have to make their "system" appear even more marketable. At least once a week I receive a BP message from someone asking to paper a contract for an offer and the terms are outrageous. I politely tell them the terms will not be accepted and they defensively state "but XYZ taught me it can be done".. .

For illustration purposes, here's a fresh example that was brought to me: 95% seller financed for 3 years I/O at 6% for a 30 door hotel. When I asked why a seller would ever accept this, I was told quite emphatically the property requires work and therefore nobody can obtain financing so the proposed terms were the only way the seller could sell the property. Their coach told them to specifically seek out these deals believing they can only be acquired with these seller finance terms and wasn't even aware construction financing existed that could easily take down this particular deal. I simply shook my head.

Unfortunately social media has made it easy for these bad actors to get in front of their target clientele and it's normally the clients who have no liquidity, poor credit and very low chances for success to begin with in this business and put these courses/mentorship on their credit cards who fall even further behind. I can't see a scenario where licensing or certifications will ever be introduced or required to coach/mentor. However those who misrepresent their credentials or knowingly teach systems that do not work can certainly be prosecuted and it's only a matter of time if the wheels aren't already turning in attorney general offices across the country for this to happen.

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2 Reply

Becca F.

OP

Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Travis Timmons:

@Becca F. you and I both have been around long enough to know that the deal that gets touted at closing is far different than end of year actuals. Rent being $300 more than PITI is not cash flow of $300/month.

And the $2400/month cash flow is probably a short term rental that started in peak season. For example, one could cash flow $2400 on a $200k purchase here in Maine if your first month was July. The $600 heating oil bill + little to no rental income + PITI in January will balance your actual numbers out for the year. There's just always more to the story, and there is no easy money as I see it.

For this guru, I watched over 8 videos of her client testimonials until I started getting a headache lol. I'm not sure where she is getting $2400 cash flow from - could be duplex or something. Most of her students are buying LTRs. I hear very little mention of STR maybe a few MTRs. Recent claim of her student $500 cash flow with $133,000 purchase price in 2023. On some of these reels, it says "cash flow after fixed expenses". I agree that there is more to the story and information is left out.

I just think it's not 100% transparent when this person is saying $150,000 gross rental income and won't answer what is the net rental income. My gross rental income looks pretty impressive and here I am working my W2 job, to say nothing of the losses incurred each month on my Class C Indy house. And the potential CA investor that I referred to an agent who's trying to push a $10,000 coaching program - I thought that was a little shady.

Good old capitalism in the USA - I'm considering starting a course charging a fraction of what they charge but I hate being on video. If it weren't for RE, I wouldn't be out there talking to so many people. I'd be working quietly by myself in a research lab or in front of a computer.

One of the commonalities is that all these social media gurus like to hear themselves talk. It's the same videos posted over and over again on Instagram (I don't have TikTok but I imagine it's similar). "I'm a RE, finance expert (stocks), etc"

John Clark

Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Becca F.:

I'm on Instagram and YouTube a lot. It seems like everyone is charging for coaching and courses now. I won't mention the names but on IG there numerous coaches/mentors. I'm not talking about Pace Morby but smaller names. Their free content isn't bad but for Guru #1 owns 10 SFHs worth $2 million and on her content claims she has gross rental income of $150,000. Someone questioned her on the comments asking about net rental income and she didn't respond. Guru#2 charges $597 for his 6 week course (an over $3900 value), same thing $2 million portfolio - I attended his free webinar so that's how I know the price. Guru #3 is "financially free from W2 job" from doing OOS BRRRRs in less than 3 years, scaled to 21 units in one year and now at 35 units. She used a lot of private lenders and wasn't a high income earner. I think her course is around $1500.

I had a California investor on BP contact me. I contacted one of my local agents here and she told me to refer to her coaching program assistant. They charge just under $10,000 for 1:1 coaching. There is a cheaper program with access to the course modules, online platform but you have to pay $200 an hour to talk to a coach. She has an impressive portfolio but I just lost some respect for this agent - I reached out to help a Bay Area investor as an agent not have her sell him an expensive coaching program.

With financial advisors or planners, they have to be certified to help people invest and make investment decisions as far IRAs, Roth IRAs, brokerage accounts. With these RE coaches, there's no type of certification and buying a property is one of the largest financial decisions people make. I could start a course and start charging people "How to Not Lose Money in the Midwest"...lol. My portfolio is a lot more than the first two gurus because of California appreciation.

Thoughts? Should RE coaches required to be certified or have some type of credentials? Or continue as is?

Qualifications:

if they charge nothing; nothing.

If they charge: shamelessness.