Renatus Investment Coach/ Mentor
Engineer · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 8 posts · 7 votes
Renatus Investment Coach/ Mentor
Most Popular Reply
Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 16 votes
12yHi Marisa,
I may catch some flak for this, on this site. I'm a current Renatus student in Chicago, based at the same Downer's Grove office you probably visited. I've just been a student for a little over a month. I believe, personally, that it's the right fit for me. But I'm not going to say that everyone/anyone NEEDS a Renatus education to succeed in Real Estate. It's true as other posters have stated, that that there is a LOT of information right here in the BiggerPockets community. In fact, I usually listed to BP podcasts on my Thursday commutes to the office for study groups.
What Renatus and the Downers Grove office study groups give me are the comprehensive, structured education, followed through in study groups, and a community of students and mentors who have gone through the classes and have gone on to make a number of successful deals. There is a group accountability to complete the classes, there are discussion groups to make sure concepts are covered, there are regular events (these events are NOT visiting "gurus" whose appearance is aimed at selling additional products).
You would be with people whom you will be in a 'graduating class' with, have had education together with in study groups, and will be able to do deals with. I've gotten to know several of the other students and instructors pretty well in the short time I've been with them. There are a number of other activities hosted by the Downers Grove office: Today after work I visited a fix and flip in Barrington that's about to go on the market - where Renatus students who participated are going to make a ton of money. After that, I traveled down to Downers Grove and in a small group I played the Cash Flow 101 game. This is a "Rich Dad" product aimed at training you how to think about real estate investments at a broad level. (Other Chicagoland REIA's also host "Cash Flow nights" for the same purpose).
If you do not pursue Renatus education, you can find communities of Chicago investors through REIA groups, including Meetups which are listed here. I'm sure Brie Schmidt has already reached out to you if you have made an introduction here, and she can probably steer you to her REIA group. If you tend to work better with some structured education and with a group of people who will motivate you, hold you accountable, and keep you from procrastinating, and if you can commit to traveling to the Downer's Grove office on at least a weekly basis (Thursday nights), then Renatus may be a good fit for you, at the $2k "Essentials" level.
Renatus DOES have an education marketing side, which is completely optional. Myself, I'm not focusing on that. In fact, when I was first introduced to Renatus, the education marketing side gave me red flags, since I perceived it to be a MLM. I like to steer far away from MLM's and have had a couple MLM's pitched at me which I've declined in the past. I feel education marketing is 180 degrees from what I want to do. But I can understand their argument that you need to learn to market to be successful in real estate anyway -- whether it's marketing yourself, your abilities, your properties for wholesale, for rent, for sale, etc. The company's arguments for giving students the option to market its education are: 1) it keeps the money in the community where it can be reinvested rather than sending it to ad agencies or other advertising vehicles, 2) It allows students another mode of cash flow so they can build an operating/investing budget with which to start their RE investing 3) It helps train students to become salespeople, and this discipline is valuable in real estate.
I personally think that Renatus' idea to market the education this way also gives them a terrible image problem, considering that I resisted the first opportunity to join because I checked up on Renatus online and concluded it was an MLM scam, and you can see that there are many who bring up the "MLM" label in regard to the education sales. I personally am not focused on selling the Renatus education. You'll see that I do not have any kind of link in my bio or in this message pointing you at any kind of place you can register. In fact, this post is the first time I have ever mentioned the company on Bigger Pockets.
Whatever your decision, I wish you all the luck in your investing career. If you sign up, I will NOT get a commission based on your decision - that would go to the person who recruited you through the Craigslist ad.
207 Replies
- Boston , MA · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 5 votes10y
Originally posted by @John Zahner:
You're absolutely right Ken, most people don't have what it takes for this. They are in love with the idea of investing in realestate because they watch to many TV shows that make it look easy. Anyone who has actually done it knows that it's not for the faint of heart. For me and my wife it was a no brainer to drop the money on the Fortune Builders education and systems. I'm not a fan of reinventing the wheel so the opportunity to learn from people that have done thousands of deals and avoid making some of the newbie mistakes by having mentors there to help at every turn was well worth it. However I do feel that having some skin in the game and looking at investing not as a hobby but as a legitimate future forces you to put the effort in to succeed. Besides time is the most valuable resource on this planet because it's the only thing you can never get more of. Who would want to to waste that researching the basics...not I that's for sure.
maybe these companies be careful who they sell to. But they say invest with none of your own money, hooks them in. Yes, there are strategies that do this, but you may not have the skills to reel in investors. I know people who used Fortune Builders and are successful, but it is more of a mentoring program focused on investing, flipping, etc., but others (meaning other education products) are interested in having you become a salesperson for their product. Huge difference!!!
Hello to everybody on the Bigger Pockets forum...first, I want to point out that I am not a real estate professional, nor do I seek to become a real estate investor. I have a house that I'm paying a mortgage on, bills, etc. That is all the real estate I need at this point in time. I am looking into purchasing a newer (and bigger) home in the future, but I digress.
I signed on to this site with the purpose to provide my experience with Renatus. Please pay attention to the posts by Debra Vance. She is telling the truth. Her encounter with this group is similar to my own, with a couple of exceptions.
My experience with Renatus: In March of 2013, a woman I was seeing off and on told me about Renatus. She had been with the group literally from its' inception in 2011. I was informed that it was a real estate investment group, however, as she delved deeper into the mechanics of this organization, I realized it was actually an MLM. Later, in April, she told me about one of the mentors there, a Mr. Steve S. She suggested I might be interested in one of the (rental) properties Renatus held, that he was handling.
One afternoon, I did some online research into the Renatus group, but found very little information available, except those provided by Renatus itself. Further research led me to nouveau riche, which turned out to be the company that had led to the formation of Renatus. One site in particular, Nouveau Riche - Legal but a terrible company, was the most informative. I was shocked and appalled by the posts I read.
In early May, just by coincidence, I noticed that Renatus was holding a meeting for new recruits. The meeting was only about a 20 minute drive away, so I decided to take a look. Upon arrival, I was asked who "invited" me. I was rather taken aback by this, so I mentioned the name of the woman who told me about it. I was given a name tag, (which I put in my pocket) and directed to the meeting room. (I guess that "by invitation only" or "hard to get into" angle lends some cache to the proceedings).
The meeting was essentially an orchestrated, high energy pep rally. The main speaker, Scott Rowe, outlined the program, indicating how Renatus will help you shed your "job" (just over broke) and lead you to a "real" MBA. (major bank account) Mr. Rowe pointed out an man in the back who was already "doing deals". He claimed to have purchased a Renatus property and only 2 days later sold it at "great profit". This man, and there were a few others like him, were shills -- operatives to encourage those who might be hesitant to join up to change their minds.
After the meeting, the woman who told me about Renatus (she had arrived later, again a coincidence ) suggested I talk with Steve S. about the rental property. By this time, I knew the whole thing was just a lot of BS, so I went along with it for amusement.
He told me the property was a duplex unit located in Milwaukee, WI. He had a white board on which he drew little stick men, little houses, and dollar signs. The FMV of the property was listed at 40K. But 30K would be added for the "education" costs. I found this interesting, since the price quoted for the top tier was 15K. (closer to 20K when you buy the books, cd's and dvd's - but still less than 30K)
Renatus would finance the whole deal -- with 8K being returned to me, around $2500 going to the woman who "sponsored" me, 13-15K to Mr. S. The remainder, presumably, would go to Renatus headquarters in Utah. (40K for the actual purchase of the property).
When I asked what the interest rate was, he replied in a matter of fact manner: "oh, 17 to 22 percent". I almost started laughing -- but held back. At the end of his spiel, I politely told him I would give it some thought, and then left.
Folks, this property is the same as the ones described by Ms Vance in her post of 4/4/15.
Had I gone through with it and signed the documents, I can assure you that inside of a year, my own house would be in foreclosure, and I would be facing bankruptcy.
Please do your research (or due diligence) before you plunk down any of your hard earned $ before you do any business with this organization. My focus is on enlightening those who may be uniformed.
Nouveau Riche - legal but a terrible company is a great place to start. Sure, some of the posts go back to 2007 -- but the info is still relevant. See also Scott Rowe real estate scam (or not?) as well as indeed.com forum - foozy investments.
In closing, we can be grateful for sites like this, that will keep you informed and ready to deal with that ilk of unscrupulous people.
May God breed and keep you all -- and good luck!
- Rental Property Investor · Wesley Chapel, FL · Member since 2009 · 28 posts · 17 votes10y
Life lessons are the true core of what you learn, the risk we take and the size of your WHY - Education does not work for everybody, and many have the masterful skill to dissect a company or a system to prove and convince themselves why an enterprise wont work. Regardless, in order to be successful in what our heart calls us to do, we learn all we know by deception, wrong information, listening to others when in fact they were wrong from the start; - this combined with many sources of educations such as BP, Renatus, Fortune Builders, Carleton Sheets, Dave Del Dotto, and many others that go unmentioned - Is what makes us good and professionals at what we do. Personally I like education, and a systematic blueprint with processes easy to follow. I started back with Carleton Sheets, learned a lot, and made a boat load of cash on my first deal. That did not make his education perfect, but a learned something. After Carleton I have taken many good, and bad courses - My point, never stop joining a group or take a class, or a leadership event, the good, and even the bad will always teach you something as long as we remain laser focused on a specific real estate GOAL. Everything helps, BTW Renatus (which I am not associated with) is not a MLM enterprise, good post though -
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @John Zahner:
You're absolutely right Ken, most people don't have what it takes for this. They are in love with the idea of investing in realestate because they watch to many TV shows that make it look easy. Anyone who has actually done it knows that it's not for the faint of heart. For me and my wife it was a no brainer to drop the money on the Fortune Builders education and systems. I'm not a fan of reinventing the wheel so the opportunity to learn from people that have done thousands of deals and avoid making some of the newbie mistakes by having mentors there to help at every turn was well worth it. However I do feel that having some skin in the game and looking at investing not as a hobby but as a legitimate future forces you to put the effort in to succeed. Besides time is the most valuable resource on this planet because it's the only thing you can never get more of. Who would want to to waste that researching the basics...not I that's for sure.
Agree with your first two sentences, the third I agree with, yes, it was a no brainer, as in not using it dropping big bucks for hype on ideas referred to as "education". Yes, you do need skin in the game, that skin doesn't always have to be money, it can be knowledge and entrepreneurship. The last sentence, time is valuable, (agreed) but the "wasting" on leaning the basics is really absurd when speaking about education. There is a reason people begin in the first grade and don't start school in high school. As to the time involved, I have a student who got through the basics of real estate, in 3 days, in her spare time! She past all lessons @ 80% or higher, in just under ten hours. I don't recommend tying to digest all that in one 10 hour sitting! It also needs to sink in.
I'm guessing John, from your avatar, you might be a pilot. If you are and you learned to fly skipping ground school, where you should learn the basics of aviation and weather, I don't think I want to get on your plane. Flying isn't hard, it's the landing that can be hard, especially when you don't understand why you go through landing procedures.
Perhaps people are under the impression that learning real estate takes 6 weeks, that's not correct. You can learn the basics of real estate in less than a week. And, you don't need to memorize 200 pages of material, much of it is a first time read to get the big picture, then as you need to recall a topic you'll know where to find it. So, it's not wasting time to learn how and why we do things in real estate.
There is not one strategy or guru method devised that is not anchored in the basic concepts of real property, there are no secrets of making money in real estate. These concepts are all related and if you don't have an understanding of them, you do not know real estate. Look in the forums and the evidence is clear that most here don't know much about business or real estate. I'd guess that 80% of all the questions asked are answered by very basic rules and concepts, there is very little on BP that begins to be an advanced topic of this business. And for small investors, truly advanced areas will never be needed, such as forecasting analysis or debt and asset management. You don't need to be an expert to make money, but you do need to understand what you're doing.
Education on the "investor" side of real estate is one big cluster mess. A real snafu as military types understand the term. As Ken pointed out, it begins with those wanting to make money the quick and easy way, the problem begins with the newbie investors. The attitude toward real estate is pretty sour, brought about by guru TV ads and hype of making money, we have popular posters and folks selling materials that don't even understand the difference between dealing in personal property and real property, that's pretty basic! If you're going to deal legally, honestly and ethically, you need to understand the difference between dealing in land and dealing with widgets that can be replaced.
Gurus are simply answering the call, after getting people excited, filling the perceived demand by those wanting quick and easy money, which is really a myth to begin with. These "education" groups only exist because of the human nature of the naive. The promise is you can master real estate, the reality is you buy into a paint by numbers set and you'll never paint a master piece. Real estate is an art and a science. You cannot learn an art from a mechanical process of step by step functions, you can't learn the science with disregard to principles of real estate, the basics.
Your guru groups concentrate on the artful side with the paint by numbers set of making a deal because it's the easiest way to develop a product to sell you! You're not learning real estate, you're finding ways to deal in real estate, often these ways are illegal, unethical and mythical. Who makes the most money? It will always be the ones who are better informed, educated, those who understand how to use basic concepts to design a transaction or create profit, those who master the art and science of the business.
And that takes effort, something that many don't really want to put forth. There are those who really get suckered into paying a lot of money with the idea that the amount paid reflects the value and quality of some fast track method, the "real secrets", you're not getting an education, you're getting a superficial scratching of the surface of marketing methods.
I noticed in the above posts that these are simply telling you what a property value is and then setting up transactions for one to profit, that's really the old shell game, eventually the cup is raised and nothing will be under your cup.
And hey, when I started, I didn't know the basics either, I found out later on that to succeed I had to back up, regroup, actually get an education and approach real estate from an entrepreneurial stand point. It's much easier to make money when you understand how to create deals rather than trying to find them and force an approach in the circumstances at hand.
Sorry it's so long and John, nothing personal, it's a common attitude for many trying to get onto real estate. :)
- Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
If you have under 10 posts on a site like this... And you're hear to defend a Guru... Get lost. You're embarrassing yourself.
Biggerpockets is a community of actual investors. The last time you guys came here you left with your tail between your legs. Lets not do this again....
- 10yJake ThompsonPro MemberRental Property Investor · Albany, OR · Member since 2015 · 312 posts · 136 votes
Just to add my experience with Renatus, I also responded to a Craigslist ad for a real estate investment company seeking an apprenticeship/assistant. Went through several telephone interviews and watched some videos before they finally told me it was a $10K+ course. I politely told my "sponsor" that I wasn't looking for a course right now and moved on. I'd rather invest that money into an ACTUAL deal, personally.
- Banker · Ponte Vedra Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes10y
@Jake Thompsonsmart choice.
- Broker / Investor · Tewksbury, MA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 351 votes10y
One thing the salesman told me to get me into the presentation is that they teach you how to pay off a mortgage in seven years without refinancing. Has anyone ever heard that before?
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Rich Hupper:
One thing the salesman told me to get me into the presentation is that they teach you how to pay off a mortgage in seven years without refinancing. Has anyone ever heard that before?
Hi, Rich,
Actually, that's been advertised on the internet and the main stream media for years. To sum it up, it's really an enhanced form of arbitrage where you use a line of revolving credit to pay down big chunks of your amortized home loan. The idea is to reduce the amount of interest paid on the amortized loan by paying down the principal much quicker than simply making the scheduled monthly payment. Seven years is possible - a bit longer is really more typical.
Another attraction point is the tax and legal class in the fundamental curriculum which can teach you how to increase your tax refund and reduce your total tax liability by using deductions and business entities properly.
An important point to remember is this: the great bulk of people saying "no, don't do it" have no first-hand experience with it.
I came across this on Facebook - seems appropriate here:
I am a student, affiliate and a community volunteer for the most successful investor community we have: right here in suburban Chicago. So, I speak from first-hand experience. See my profile for the rest about me.
The gurus make you pay to attend their upsell. Then, you travel someplace where you pay accomodations, travel and your own expenses (some of them may be deductible in whole or in part - consult your financial professional, I'm not one). You are not allowed to record, and when you get home you have toll-free numbers for "support". Some allow to repeat ("audit") the seminar without paying more.
Renatus's classes are on-line 24x7. You can repeat as often as you want or need. Access to the top and "bottom" packages are "for life", no additional charge. The initial purchase includes two people. All updates and new classes added are included - no additional charge.
People posting on BP range in experience from total newbies to people like me to very successful professional investors. Who's advice you get is unpredictable. You get what you pay for.
Renatus instructors are not paid to teach. They donate their time out of their own business schedule. They are required to have made at least $1 Million doing what they teach. They do in their everyday business what they teach in the classes. We have almost 50 instructors and some 460 hours of on-line classes. It'll keep you busy for a while!
Local investor communities provide networking with people in your area doing what you're learning to do who have the same education you have - everyone "speaks the same language".
Another fellow mentioned study groups. These are facilitated by the communities and their leaders, NOT Renatus itself. Study groups provide an opportunity to discuss what you're learning with your fellow students. My local community holds study groups every week. There is no additional charge for study groups.
The BP equivalent would probably be "Meet-Ups" and other informal groups. These are typically held less often and on an irregular schedule.
To me, it's all about relationships and the strongest bond in any relationship is what you have in common with others. The Renatus education and REI are what the community members all have in common.
Anyway, that's what I have to say about it. I hope the moderators allow this to remain here - its "everything you ever wanted to know" about it.
David J Dachtera
"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict - Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes10y
Hi, I'm still researching Renatus and still on the fence. I'm an incredibly frugal person so take that into account when I give what I see are my pros and cons so far. Also, I'm looking to be a part time investor not a marketer (selling the classes). Finally, I work from home in a great professional job that I love and so I'm not a get-rich-quick kinda guy.
Pros
1. Pricing: The classes pay for 2 people. So, they are really $1k, $4k, and $10k…IF… (and that’s a conditional IF) you find a learning partner outside of your home with whom you are willing to “contractually” partner…for life. Also, your payment towards a lower tier education goes toward the next tier if you decide to take the advanced classes. In other words, spending $2k on the first tier classes means that you then spend $6k to get to the $8k classes. Then an additional $12k to get the $20 tier classes.
2. Education: Sure! Everything is on the internet nowadays. And, I’m an excellent Googler. But, if you’re not good at Google searches or don’t want to spend the time searching online then a Renatus’ one stop shop is the way to go. Also, you can re-watch a video (for life in some cases) at any time rather than having to bookmark websites. And those videos will probably be updated regularly where info on websites may get outdated, moved, or deleted.
3. Network: Joining Renatus is like joining a fraternity or a sorority. Instant friends! Like a lot of realtor groups, they meet regularly, where you can make use of some of their trusted business associates (in particular…management companies, realtors, contractors, and landscapers). Also, they advertise that they are even willing to give out their mobile phone numbers. Lastly, Renatus is big on "relationships". I may be wrong but this might be their motto... "Making less on a deal to build a relationship is still a good deal."
4. Sales Pitch (lack of): I’ve been to a few Renatus events (game night and a couple of seminars). I have never (not even once) been given a high pressure sales pitch (which I would walk away from immediately). The price they quoted that day for the classes is the price I can still get today. No "one time offer", no, books or CD’s to buy. Pay when and how you want.
Cons
1. Marketing: They do spend a lot of time trying to show you how to market the classes. But, if that’s the route someone takes they can eventually make 50% commission on the price of the classes ($2k, $8k, or $20k class prices equates to $1k, $4k, & $10k profit). That’s nothing to sneeze at. This is a con with a pro attached but it's a con for me since I'm not planning on marketing.
2. Testimonials: The leaders and teachers of Renatus appear to be doing well with their investments. But, I have only heard a couple of testimonials from average Joe’s and Jozette’s. Something realistic like… “I’ve been using Renatus for a year now and I’m able to support my household through real estate investing.” Or, “I’ve been using Renatus for 3 years and every year I get better at it.”
3. No Part Time?: The Renatus system is really geared for full time investors and they say to be successful you have to quit your job. I want to see a part-timer strategy for those of us who are happy with our jobs and aren’t looking to get rich but want some positive cash flow from real estate investments.
My 2-Cents worth. My strategy (if I ever jump in) is to find a trust worthy family member or friend to partner with. Ideally, I'd put up the $1k for the Essentials classes with them but not put another dime into the other classes unless it's from the profits of our investments. $6k profit shouldn't be too much to ask for to pay for the next tier, right? That next tier education should get me the $12k for the Xtreme Combo.
- Banker · Ponte Vedra Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes10y
If you're just interested in the education then you can make that judgement. And it definitely is not a get rich quick. It takes awhile to make money in real estate investing don't let anyone tell you otherwise. but a lot of the "leaders" make a lot of money marketing and often people spend a lot of time doing that. Many don't really do much real estate. They take the classes. And some just are in it for the education but many who take it have already been doing real estate and just took the classes to expand what they already know. If you have a job you like and just want to get into investing, I would suggest buying a two or three family. If you want to flip, look for a local REIA group. I bet you could find a mentor there. I joined a small one and the people are great. I know people who never took a class and are millionaires just by buying multi family properties and after many years they have real estate and passive income. Start slow and you can do it without spending 20k. You say you don't want to spend the time searching the Internet, but honestly just focus on one area and do that. You can try something different later on and learn that. No need to take all those classes because you can't do it all at once. You need to focus. I know an investor who owns a lot of properties, is a landlord, did flipping, and now is still a landlord but doing wholesaling now and less flipping. The key in flipping is know your numbers and walk if you can't get your price. If I were you I would save the 20k for a down payment on a flip or multi family. Good luck.
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Michael Fimbres its just MLM wrapped up in real estate cape.
- Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes10y
@Jay Hinrichs Maybe the "marketing" and commission on the classes is MLM which is still hardly an issue when in the end you make 50%. At 50%, does anyone care if that's an MLM? But, the REI is hardly MLM. You use the education to create your own companies, make your own deals and keep your own profits. How is that MLM?
- Banker · Ponte Vedra Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes10y
@michael fimbres I understand from people that I know that are involved or who had been but no longer are, that Bob Snyder himself admitted that the only reason they are not an MLM is because the keep the residuals to 5 percent. So, in other words, in an MLM the higher up you go the more residual you make so the person at the bottom only makes a little. At least that's the way I understand it. So they are on the edge of it in reality. Because you have to buy the education then find enough people to fill your so-called bucket before you start earning any commission so it's really based on you bringing people in, which can be a full-time job doing that. But I am not an expert on MLMs so maybe someone else can explain it better than me.
- Mililani, HI · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote10y
Originally posted by @John Smith:
@michael fimbres I understand from people that I know that are involved or who had been but no longer are, that Bob Snyder himself admitted that the only reason they are not an MLM is because the keep the residuals to 5 percent. So, in other words, in an MLM the higher up you go the more residual you make so the person at the bottom only makes a little. At least that's the way I understand it. So they are on the edge of it in reality. Because you have to buy the education then find enough people to fill your so-called bucket before you start earning any commission so it's really based on you bringing people in, which can be a full-time job doing that. But I am not an expert on MLMs so maybe someone else can explain it better than me.
By that logic, we can consider just about every sales business as an MLM. A Car dealership for example, the sales people do most of the work selling cars and earn a rather miserable commission, while everyone else from the sales manager to the owner of the dealership make money off them.
Now you say you're no expert about MLM, and I'll add that you also don't have a clue about the Renatus system. You gave that away on your first sentence "I understand from people that I know". Yeah usually the most opinionated haven't experienced what they're trying to make a point of. And case in point, you're absolutely wrong about having to buy the education in order to make any commission. You can sign up as just an IMA for $125 and just sell the education. Of course your commission will be much lower than those who bought at least the essentials package. Just last week I made my very first essentials sale, and there's a $500 payday waiting for me this coming Tuesday. One sale after buying the essentials myself and I already paid off 25% of my education investment. If and when I sell another essentials package, that's another $500, and then I'll be "essentials certified". When I sell my third essentials, then that's $1000 commission and my REI education just paid itself. There's no way I would get such income opportunity to make significant money that quick selling Amway. And what if the mentor of my mentor makes 5% off my sales? I'm making 50%, him making 5% means absolutely nothing to me.
I bought Renatus for the education, not to sell it. That's why I've only sold one essentials package since I joined up in January. And it practically sold itself. Maybe I'll get motivated to try and sell it now.
Hi Marisa. Welcome to BP. I'm an investor in Birmingham AL. On Renatus .... are you sitting down? Don't get your hopes up about all Renatus' claims to make money. I have first hand experience with them. I bought the Essentials Courses for $2,000.00. The classes were not very good and I could not even finish them. I tried marketing and signing others up for 10 months. I actually put 1,000 people into the webinar series. And I could only make a sale or two. Have you ever tried to sell a $15,000.00 "education" from an unaccredited, unknown company?
I really feel they use Real Estate Education for the wrong purpose. The education they sell is not worth the price. I can say it because I took the courses. And they really don't care about helping you in real estate. They only want you to sell the product (classes) for their multi level scheme. They give honest real estate investors a bad name. My mentor had me set up 10 Craigslist accounts to advertise making money. It was very deceptive. And Renatus has members here on BP just to promote their MLM. Renatus preys on young investors who don't know better, and they use the guise of education to lure peeps in. It's shameful.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Michael Fimbres its just MLM wrapped up in real estate cape.
Actually, Jay, you need to learn the difference between MLM - which Renatus is NOT - and direct sales - which Renatus IS.
In MLM, you make money when you recruit people under you and they make sales. That is, your earnings are up to your team. Your own sales pay the people in your "up-line", not so much to you, depending on the how high up you are in the "pyramid".
In direct sales, you make money by selling product - this is your primary source of income. You can also build a team of people who, like you, make money selling product and, if your compensation plan provides, you can earn "over-rides" (residual income) on your team's sales. The Rowes (Scott and his wife) make between $10,000 and $20,000 a month from residual income ("over-rides") because they've been at it since before Renatus was founded. That's on top of their own sales, of course.
What about "it's a pyramid scheme"?
A lot of Renatus students engage ONLY in what they learn through their education and the study groups, where those are offered, and do NOT participate in the marketing side. Again, study groups are facilitated by the local community, NOT by Renatus.
As you may have read in this thread, some people who did engage with it found their expectations were not met. Rather than question Renatus, I'd question their expectations.
... but that's just me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
David J Dachtera
"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict - Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Please consider getting with the person you worked with and express your concerns about the education.
In what way did it not meet your expectations? Make your feelings known - they are ALWAYS looking to improve the product.
... or, connect with me and express yourself privately. I see the Rowes every Thursday (if they're in town) and see Bob Snyder usually at least twice a year: around August when we have our regional event and early December when we have our holiday party.
You should have been contacted by Renatus, also. If you paid for your education in full, you now have access to it for life, including all additions and updates. The 2-day Tax and Legal class is updated at least every year. The credit classes are being updated as you read this - BIG changes coming in the credit industry come July 1st of this year! (Yeah - we now have classes on how to establish, improve or repair your credit! I'm told that a corporate credit class is also in the works.)
David J Dachtera
"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict - 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
You guys can argue this all you want... if you like it go for it if you don't don't
- Mililani, HI · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote10yIt's a lot easier to label something you don't understand based on the opinion of the collective. And the collective here is that Renatus is an MLM. At least go to a presentation, engage with students and mentors and ask them the tough questions, ask them about their successes, even if they have no deals going on, ask them how far the education have they gone. One of the mentors in my team have yet to close a deal, but he has passed most classes already. He sells the product because he believes in it, and I believe he'll start making deals very soon. My mentor (who is actively doing deals and have a holding property cash flowing him over $500 a month and joined Renatus less than a year ago) is doing an amazing job with me, we do study groups and analyze deals and makes me think like an investor. Yes, he also wants me to try and sell the education, because selling the education IS part of the training. Like someone else said, how can you sell that fix and flip you've been holding for six months if you can't sell a product that most people can buy with their credit cards? It's a process, it's a community, it truly depends on what you put in it and how good your community is working together. And no, it's not for everyone, no, success is not guaranteed, just like anything, you're most likely to fail. That's life. So if you know a friend of a friend who has a friend that bought Renatus and now is bashing the crap out it, calling it a scam and MLM, then check it out for yourself, don't join the hate bandwagon like a lemming so you can get approval from your peers.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
@Juan Navarro speaks wisely.
...and again, the marketing side of Renatus is NOT MLM - it's direct sales (yes, Virginia, there IS a difference!)
David J Dachtera
"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict - Banker · Ponte Vedra Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes10y
@david dachtera you're right, it's not an MLM because Bob Snyder makes sure it's not. He said it himself, that's why the residual is only 5 percent. If it went up the higher you are, then it would be. He said it, not me. I do understand that the guy at the top needs to get a lot of people on their "team" that's how they build on the residuals. So that is why they push the marketing because if you get on a team, you have to get three. Then once you do that , you start building a "team" and the first person you get on your team owes you three, or something like that. I don't know the exact details. So it builds up, you know, like a pyramid...the more people on your team, that 5 percent adds up. Yes, it takes awhile, that's why a lot of people get discouraged and only the great salespeople and/or marketers do the best at building a "team." So officially, no, it's not. But why do people put all the energy into marketing? Why don't they spend the time learning real estate investing? Because they are trying to get that residual income. And the top people make a lot of money making residuals and selling the education. Some only do that and real estate is for their retirement, some, not all. Real estate takes time and a lot of energy. The education can be found in a lot of places, but if someone wants to spend 20k on it go ahead. But the good marketers and salespeople do make money selling the education and some focus solely on it...Just be careful before you spend $20k....it's at your own RISK!!!
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Residuals are only paid three levels down. That's a pretty shallow "pyramid". Google "Australian two-up". You'll also find it very similar to how insurance brokers pay their new agents in training, sans the over-rides, or perhaps promoting cooperation between agents in some other way. It's a very common form. Agreed - you don't know the exact details.
Why do they spend time and effort on marketing?
One could conceivably enroll a new student one's first week as an affiliate. Making anything in a real estate deal will likely take much longer. Since the bulk of our new people are the orphans of the economy, sooner is better than later where income is concerned.
They DO spend time learning real estate investing. That's why we have 460+ hours of on-line classes with more in the works.
I don't personally know anyone in the suburban Chicago area communities (plural) who focuses solely on marketing, though I'm sure it's possible. Marketing income is unpredictable - you could go months with no commissions. RE deals are more firmly under your own control. Unexpected expenses may diminish expected profits, that's true, and schedules on fix-ups and rehabs do tend to slip due to issues we cannot control.
Marketing is a key aspect of ANY business - even REI, whether you're a wholesaler looking to sell your interest in a property you just put under contract, an investor looking for private lenders, a rehabber / fix-and-flipper looking to sell your latest completed property, a buy-and-hold investor looking for tenants, ... even if you're not ready to exit the W2 world and find you need to change employers: you're going to update your resume and market yourself to prospective employers.
True, the education may be found in lots of places. The question is do you want to take YOUR time and effort to ferret out the information? ... or have it presented to you organized into curricula in an on-line "classroom" setting where you can refer to it whenever you need to? If you don't know that you need to learn a specific aspect, how will you know to go looking for it? Another way to say that might be, "You don't know what you don't know."
That said, of course, Jay Hinrichs said it well - I paraphrase: if paid education floats your boat, go for it; if not, then don't.
I would simply assert than even some of the BP podcasters admit that some of their earliest experiences were financial disasters. Education doesn't cost - lack of education costs.
David J Dachtera
"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict - Banker · Ponte Vedra Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes10y
@David Dachtera A lot of people, the big players, do get commissions every day and make excellent money or more than in real estate. Correction: I didn't say it was a pyramid, I said what Bob Snyder said. You keep saying it's not a pyramid, but I never said it was. Bottom line, if you build a large "team" you can live off the residuals if you want, it takes time, but to do that there isn't a lot of time to do real estate because that takes a lot of time, too....only point they sell education which is overpriced and pretty much want you to sell it, they don't force you, but why is it that the "trainings" are all about the selling? So my ONLY point is they should be honest about what their about. They make you think that selling the education is easy, it's not, not for many, some, yes, but those are salespeople, marketers. You obviously like Renatus, fine. But the truth should be told and then a person make a decision. you are biased it is obvious. That is fine. Go for it and I am happy for you. I just wanted to tell the truth, that is all. I always tell people, if you are a good salesperson or marketer then you can do well so why not....go for it....if you want the education and have 20k, go for it. have at it...
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer
The weekly meetings are all about marketing the education, yes.
However, most communities also have a monthly real estate workshop where current students can get a refresher and new and prospective students can sample the education since the workshop is usually led by one of the instructors of the on-line classes. There is no selling and nothing is for sale at the monthly RE workshop. Really, nothing is for sale at the weekly or follow-up meetings, either. All you can do at the weekly meeting is register for the follow-up meeting. The weekly meeting is a presentation - non-interactive. The follow-up is the Q & A meeting. Anyone who wants to enroll needs to get with the person who invited them.
Another way to look at it:
Renatus itself is a marketing company which sells REI education.
The communities are analogous to REIAs: investors who are students of the education gather to network, learn and talk about deals and deal making. Renatus does not sponsor the communities. The communities are self-sufficient and offer features like study groups and workshops which Renatus itself does not.
...and, to be accurate, you don't have to have $20K - I didn't. Renatus offers financing which is not credit or income dependent. So, if "the guy living under the bridge" can raise the 20% down, he's approved for financing: 18% for 3 years. When he's not pursuing deals, he can pan-handle at intersections to make his monthly payments (usually one day's begging).
David J Dachtera
"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict
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