Renatus Investment Coach/ Mentor
Engineer · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 8 posts · 7 votes
Hi Everyone,
Last night I went to a real estate invest presentation.
I responded to an ad on Craig’s list and was invited to a presentation. The presenter was really entertaining, he went over the company (Renatus), offered courses that would help to educate potential investors for a fee (between $2K - $15K depending on the your course selection). The program is designed to walk new investors through different real estate tractions with an experienced investor. It was presented like a win-win...
My question is, have anyone heard of this company? I have done some research and I am finding mixed reviews. This idea of a one stop shop is appealing, but I don’t want to put myself in a hole falling for a gimmick.
Please help …
Hi Marisa,
I may catch some flak for this, on this site. I'm a current Renatus student in Chicago, based at the same Downer's Grove office you probably visited. I've just been a student for a little over a month. I believe, personally, that it's the right fit for me. But I'm not going to say that everyone/anyone NEEDS a Renatus education to succeed in Real Estate. It's true as other posters have stated, that that there is a LOT of information right here in the BiggerPockets community. In fact, I usually listed to BP podcasts on my Thursday commutes to the office for study groups.
What Renatus and the Downers Grove office study groups give me are the comprehensive, structured education, followed through in study groups, and a community of students and mentors who have gone through the classes and have gone on to make a number of successful deals. There is a group accountability to complete the classes, there are discussion groups to make sure concepts are covered, there are regular events (these events are NOT visiting "gurus" whose appearance is aimed at selling additional products).
You would be with people whom you will be in a 'graduating class' with, have had education together with in study groups, and will be able to do deals with. I've gotten to know several of the other students and instructors pretty well in the short time I've been with them. There are a number of other activities hosted by the Downers Grove office: Today after work I visited a fix and flip in Barrington that's about to go on the market - where Renatus students who participated are going to make a ton of money. After that, I traveled down to Downers Grove and in a small group I played the Cash Flow 101 game. This is a "Rich Dad" product aimed at training you how to think about real estate investments at a broad level. (Other Chicagoland REIA's also host "Cash Flow nights" for the same purpose).
If you do not pursue Renatus education, you can find communities of Chicago investors through REIA groups, including Meetups which are listed here. I'm sure Brie Schmidt has already reached out to you if you have made an introduction here, and she can probably steer you to her REIA group. If you tend to work better with some structured education and with a group of people who will motivate you, hold you accountable, and keep you from procrastinating, and if you can commit to traveling to the Downer's Grove office on at least a weekly basis (Thursday nights), then Renatus may be a good fit for you, at the $2k "Essentials" level.
Renatus DOES have an education marketing side, which is completely optional. Myself, I'm not focusing on that. In fact, when I was first introduced to Renatus, the education marketing side gave me red flags, since I perceived it to be a MLM. I like to steer far away from MLM's and have had a couple MLM's pitched at me which I've declined in the past. I feel education marketing is 180 degrees from what I want to do. But I can understand their argument that you need to learn to market to be successful in real estate anyway -- whether it's marketing yourself, your abilities, your properties for wholesale, for rent, for sale, etc. The company's arguments for giving students the option to market its education are: 1) it keeps the money in the community where it can be reinvested rather than sending it to ad agencies or other advertising vehicles, 2) It allows students another mode of cash flow so they can build an operating/investing budget with which to start their RE investing 3) It helps train students to become salespeople, and this discipline is valuable in real estate.
I personally think that Renatus' idea to market the education this way also gives them a terrible image problem, considering that I resisted the first opportunity to join because I checked up on Renatus online and concluded it was an MLM scam, and you can see that there are many who bring up the "MLM" label in regard to the education sales. I personally am not focused on selling the Renatus education. You'll see that I do not have any kind of link in my bio or in this message pointing you at any kind of place you can register. In fact, this post is the first time I have ever mentioned the company on Bigger Pockets.
Whatever your decision, I wish you all the luck in your investing career. If you sign up, I will NOT get a commission based on your decision - that would go to the person who recruited you through the Craigslist ad.
@David Dachtera if there was a BP award for being on the defensive side of the most posts, you'd win it hands down
I'd also be near - if not at - the top of the list to get the award for most attacked!
Attack begets defense.
It's easier for folks to attack based on gossip and prejudice than for them to do their own investigation. Just the nature of the beast.
Whatever we hear about, our first instinct is to look for reasons to avoid it - it's new , it's scary, "it sounds too much like this other thing I didn't like", ... we even get that from people around us when we try to talk to them about REI.
Just the nature of the beast ... the HUMAN beast!
So I started reading this thread and got sucked in and unfortunately read the whole thing. I will never get that time back and now I'm invested so want to add my two cents. I've been part of this community for a while but have been a "lurker" but feel it's time to get involved. Please no one get offended as it's not my intent.
@David Dachtera You mention your responses are fact based so I'd be interested in knowing what percent of those who are successful with Renatus are successful with only REI and never sell the education? Additionally, how transparent is Renatus in the sales/onboard process about selling the education? I checked the website and if it wasn't for this thread and reading between the lines on the website I wouldn't have really known that selling the education to others was an option. The website quite frankly talks only about an education in REI. What I'm hearing through this thread and additional research is that selling the education is a critical part of the success.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/521/topics/47...
Take the above for example...what percent of the Renatus investors are spending their time selling the above as opposed to doing true REI? Additionally, what percent of those who paid the price with Renatus make the money claimed in the above?
I personally was told by one of the "leaders" that she herself makes her money selling the education, that the investing will be done for long term and in the future, but at the time she wasn't doing it. There are people that just do the REI but most of them were already doing it before Renatus and just wanted to get some extra education. But the selling is pushed and they make it sound like it's easy and tell you how if you "only" sell three you've made your money back. First they tell you that you can sell to pay for your own education but once you find someone who wants to buy you're told well if you buy first then it counts as the first and then your buyer is the second and bang you're almost there, that's how they get people to buy then you can't find a third sucker or if you do then you end up pushing the education because doing REI is a slow process and takes time. Their education isn't that much better than anything else you can find, although they tell you differently. As far as I am concerned it's a scam but yes, some people make money selling but it takes a long time and some people to REI but you can do REI on your own. Buy a multifamily and you are doing REI.
Most folks make more money on REI than they do marketing.
Others make more on marketing. One fellow made $100K in June 2017.
It depends where you focus your efforts.
I would be interested, however, where you see the scam? Are people being charged money for product they never receive?
You've obviously never sampled the Renatus education - 50+ classes, 450+ hours of education on-line, on-demand, and growing. So, I'll just leave that lay ...
Buy a multi-family and you're either in REI - if you don't make any big mistakes - or in debt for life - if you DO make big mistakes. Ask BP's Brandon Turner how much money HE lost in his early deals from lack of education ... could have paid for his own education 5 times over.
The Reantus "education" is eerily similar to Amway's "books and tapes" business.
The core of the business should be the main focus, but no...at best it's equal to the education.
At the initial meeting that I went to, they were trying to sell the education package but only hinted that you could make money while going through the course.
I'm not sure how much more Renatus will teach compared to all the BP guides, forums, and networking events will teach for virtually nothing.
Anyway, I'm just annoyed that I was suckered into an MLM type meeting when I was trying to find a REI networking meeting.
@David Dachtera "most folks" and "others" does little for me in determining a breakdown. Let me simplify this as I'm more of a data guy.
1. What is the success rate for those who invest? (And how is success defined?)
2. Of those successful, what is the breakdown of success from REI Only vs. Selling Education?
3. Why does the company website do little to explain the education sales portion of the business?
I believe your remark about scam was not directed at me as I never referred to it as a scam. I actually believe you have valuable information just looking for you to help provide justification of that cost. And your "you could lose this much" scare tactics are not adequate. Additionally, the whole "you get what you pay for" means very little. We can line up plenty of people who have examples of where they handed over a lot of money and got little value. A big price tag does not always equate to big value. The data behind the questions above will help provide the background necessary to validate the cost. That's all I'm asking for and to this point feel little transparency has been provided. You are in a forum of people passionate about continuing through their journey, whatever point they may be at, in real estate investing. What I'm hearing is that a large part of the Renatus business is selling education (although not communicated well on the website) through those who invested.
Years ago I lost plenty of money in REI so I have learned worst case. Since then, through self education, I was able to do a buy and hold which I sold last year at a nice profit. This with no paid for education, just hard work and learning through the process. In looking to continue my education I've found the BP community and personally feel they are very transparent about what they offer. I close on my first flip in a few weeks and attribute a lot of it to the BP community and tools available. It is easy for me to see the value in what I paid for. I'm simply looking for a similar transparency from Renatus. If you can provide validation that there's a 95% success rate with those who invest and of those 95% the breakdown is 90% REI and 10% selling education I could probably get on board and help justify the cost.
That just means the person who invited you did not properly prepare you for what you were going to attend.
The core focus is financial literacy and being in business as an REI. That's where the presenter (should have) spent the bulk of his time.
All of our training is on-line, either live or recorded. There are no "books and tapes". The education is also on-line and recorded, except when a class is re-recorded when current students have the option to attend the recording session virtually via live webcast.
As for how much more is taught, one example of a question you might ask of BP is how many BP wholesalers did $330 Million in business in H1, CY2017? Our wholesaling instructor's company did. Another example is how many BP'ers teach classes which qualify as continuing education for Real Estate Agents, Accountants, Attorneys and other licensed professionals? Our Tax and Legal instructor meets that qualification. Another example is how many BP'ers are among the top 200 note traders in the country? Our Owner-Financed Notes instructor meets that qualification. Another example is how many BP-ers are expert witnesses in credit-related litigation and are consultants to legislators on credit industry related matters and chair multiple credit industry committees? Our credit management and repair instructor meets that qualification.
How much more would you like?
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you that individual affiliates - like me - normally do not track such statistics, nor does the company solicit or track such statistics from its affiliates.
As for the Renatus website, you'd need to solicit that information from Renatus. I am not qualified to speak to that. A good guess would be, however, that it has much to do with the fact that they support us as affiliates and do not seek to "siphon" business off from us.
My suggestion would be to correspond personally with Renatus's Founder and CEO, Bob Snyder. Offer your suggestions and the reasoning behind them. He's the one who makes those decisions, not us affiliates.
@David Dachtera Actually it does come as a surprise as you first said "Most folks make more money on REI than they do marketing" so to follow with "...nor does the company solicit or track such statistics from affiliates" makes me question how the original statement is valid. I refuse to read back through this thread but believe I remember reading somewhere you saying you only speak to verifiable facts. I'd like to verify your statement and would appreciate whatever you have to support the statement that "most make money on REI".
And at this point no need to answer any of my questions. I think we're at an impasse and I have enough to make a decision about Renatus. I understand you're trying to sell a product but my feedback to the Renatus folks would simply be start with transparency. Be honest about your business model.
I'll stick with the BP community and risk getting what little I paid for.
Best of luck to you.
I gave you my verifiable "anecdotal experience" facts - what I know to be true about the people in my local community - the ONLY truth I can speak to.
If that's how you make decisions, please consider some pursuit other than REI - you're placing your own and your partners' - if any - resources in serious jeopardy by proceeding with only those facts you are willing to gather rather than looking for what info you may be missing which, in this case, is considerable.
... and yes, we are COMPLETELY "transparent" about our business model. It may not be what you expect or what you would like to see / hear / read, but it is COMPLETELY transparent.
Good luck in your non-REI pursuits. Again, you have no business being in REI, in my opinion.
I come back to BP periodically to see if the renatus group is still actively seeking recruits. As the moderator Mr. Barnard stated, the fact that this thread still needs to be here after all these years is beyond comprehension. Spending $20,000 + just to learn how to buy a house or invest in real estate is utterly ridiculous. Even if by some miracle you were able to sign up enough people, it's unlikely you would recoup your initial investment, simply due to the structure of the renatus compensation plan.
Take a look at some of the folks who tried it -- their stories are all over this forum. My own experience consisted of being hustled to purchase a duplex unit in Milwaukee, WI. The purchase price was undoubtedly inflated to say the least, but it was the fact that $30,000 was tacked on to cover the "education" costs. And this is the key to the entire renatus experience. It's like a "pay to play" -- no one may purchase any renatus property or service (such as retirement investment/counseling) unless they pony up the big bucks first. If I had said to the man who touted the rental property, "I'd like to purchase the property, but I don't need to pay for the education. Further, I want to provide my own financing, my own property tax/insurance escrow account and my own maintenance." I can assure you he would have told me "we don't do business that way. you do it our way or you don't do it at all." I wasn't interested in buying a rental property anyway. I was merely curious as to how the sales pitch worked and how they get people to fall for it.
A lot of people have been bilked out of their hard earned $ by this organization, in some cases even their life savings. The Curtis DeYoung APS (american pension services) debacle. Will those folks ever recover the funds they "invested" at the recommendation of renatus? It isn't likely. Yet, the leaders of renatus -- Bob Snyder, Scott Rowe, et. al. wash their hands of the matter. "Hey it isn't our fault things went awry -- we thought it was a good investment -- it's your tough luck"
There is also a reason that renatus makes its' headquarters in Utah. The state of Utah does not regulate, or even monitor the activities of this type of organization. They are free to do as they please. It should be noted that renatus affiliates are responsible for adhering to any other state and local laws regarding their business transactions.
I suppose there are some renatus marketers that do make money using their system. But this is from selling the education packages, not necessarily from the sale / investment of real estate. And those are very far and few between. Very far.
The lack of conscience and unprofessional behavior I find particularly galling. The attitude is: "this is how we make our living. we violate no laws, we provide "opportunity" for those willing to join our "tightly knit community". Those who criticize or dissuade others from joining are infidels. To be fair, at the meeting I attended over four years ago, I did not see any coercion to get people to max out credit cards, or dip into their IRA accounts or other savings plans. However, renatus certainly wouldn't stop those who wanted to. A lack of research / due diligence by potential members is of no concern to renatus, in fact, they count on it.
To sum up, I am certainly not telling anyone what they should do. I would not tell anyone how to conduct their lives or their business affairs, just as I would not appreciate anyone doing the same to me.
But be aware of this: you would be far better served were you to gather your funds, go to a blackjack table at a casino someplace, and take hits all day on fifteen.
And that is that.
Neither of the first two lines quoted above are facts or made from verifiable data as you originally claimed that all your info was. These statements are purely opinionated and lack one ounce of foundation as you later admitted to "because Renatus does not track or ask their people".
Just about every argument from you is silly and bias.
"If that's how you make decisions, please consider some pursuit other than REI - you're placing your own and your partners' - if any - resources in serious jeopardy by proceeding with only those facts you are willing to gather rather than looking for what info you may be missing which, in this case, is considerable." - I'm sure glad that the BP community has people in it smart enough to not fall for such ridiculous scare tactics, as if every rookie will fail without Renantus. OBSURD.
Hey BP Nation - did you know that there is an incredible tool right here on BP for all of us to use. In each member post, at the top right you have a drop down menu that allows you to "ignore user" and wham, no more need to listen to or hear about posts from a particular member on the site. I think this info is particularly important here in this thread. I'm using it now.
Yes ... head-in-the-sand. That's why many consumers - and would-be REIs, here on BP and elsewhere - are in the state they're in.
Yes - I gave my verifiable "anecdotal experience" facts - what I know to be true about the people in my local community - the ONLY truth I can speak to: my own experience. ... and no, I have NOT polled the community to gather statistics, nor am I likely to.
Some claim my arguments are silly, yet theirs are even sillier. Some claim my arguments are biased while ignoring biases of their own, as if their point of view were the only valid one which can ever exist.
One of my mentors - a 40-year RE broker - came to our group 3 years ago to find and expose the scam. 3 years later, he's still trying to find the scam. In the mean time, he's currently leading the weekly Multi-Family study group.
Does anyone here - besides me - enjoy a good paradox? Here are a couple of good ones ...
BP claims it's all about "free" REI education. Yet, the Pro membership is how much?
Folks come here looking for free REI education, and claim to hate the "gurus" (which Renatus is not, but I digress). Yet should someone ask them to mentor, they want to ask for $(x)x,000, all in advance, and if the mentee does not succeed, they blame the mentee. (Sort of sounds like "the gurus", doesn't it?)
I'm not sure "paradox" is the right word there ...
Biggerpockets is free to join, the pro memberships are optional and provide additional services at a low cost if one so desires to use them. Apples and oranges. Thank goodness the majority of the membership here gets it. The one or two who don't, oh well.
The Renatus weekly meeting is free to attend. Membership, like BP's Plus and Pro options, is optional and certain features are only available to members, just like BP. Additional services (like monthly workshops) are provided at low cost for those who choose use them, just like BP.
Apples and apples.
You remind me of cult members, so brainwashed that they can't see anything beyond what the group tells them. One thing I do give this group as they appear (based on you) to train their marketers well on how to overcome objections and stay the course to a sell, not taking no for an answer. Perhaps if you applied that skill set to real world real estate investing, you could surpass many of us pros here.
BP pro account at $10 a month is hardly an apples to apples comparison to a $20k education program. BP free membership where people can ask questions, learn, network, etc is hardly an apples to apples comparison to Renatus free weekly meetings that are set up to pitch the paid programs.
I stand by my apples to oranges remark.
Now, since you've never been to a meeting, here's part of what you don't know ...
The free weekly meeting - whether you choose to get involved or not - is a networking opportunity. You can meet investors, contractors, builders, lenders, etc. - students and non-students. You can meet them, ask questions, build relationships, etc. We will NEVER discourage interaction between attendees the way the "gurus" do. It is the very essence of what the community is about.
No, the weekly meeting is NOT "set up to pitch the paid programs". In fact NOTHING is for sale at ANY Renatus group meeting - EVER! You WILL NOT find credit card machines, point-of-sale terminals, or ANY of that. For those who so choose, the Renatus education can only be purchased from the person who invited you.
The weekly meeting is business and financial education. Renatus products are introduced - briefly, usually near the end. Full details of the education and funding are provided in the Q and A meeting on a later day. Yes - you read that right: funding! Unlike the gurus, Renatus has financing options!
If the foregoing constitutes "brainwashing", then by all means - pass the soap!
One might make that same "brainwash" remark about BPers ... "Sure! Go ahead, ... take on a project without a clue what you're doing! When you lose your investors' money, oh well - it's just a learning experience. What? You're your own investor? Ask your CPA how much of it you can write off ..."
Now, what was that about apples? Hhhmmm ... seems you're right. BP doesn't even come close!
The long and the short of it is this:
You can let go of it all and come learn the truth first hand. We're not in every major city (yet); so, in many locales, only a live or recorded webinar is available. Study groups and workshops are live-streamed on the web. If it's not for you, great! The best of luck to you!
... or, you can choose to be just another complainer whining that his expectations weren't met. If complaining and whining advances your REI business, then more power to you! Needless to say, I don't recommend it.
@david dachtera Doth protest too much....if you don't like BP then why don't you leave???
Never said I don't like it (did you notice the counts of posts and votes?). Just some bad attitudes out there ...
This discussion seems to be made up of 2 groups of people, so I'm going to present a 3rd. The first group is the skeptical investor group who thinks that you can get all the education you need from free online sources, or local groups. The second group are Renatus students and affiliates who have gotten great value out of the system and are defending it. I'm not affiliated with Renatus, I AM a skeptic, but I think that slamming all paid education as fake gurus is silly. I'm a mechanical engineer and a former military officer, and I'm now a full time investor who will likely do 40 deals this year. I tell you that so that you know I'm intelligent and experienced.
I think that you can definitely take local and free resources and become a very successful investor. That's how I started. Doing that got me to buying and selling a rehab every month last year. At the beginning, I paid and attended a guru seminar for $3,000 that was all upsell. BUT, the content I got also helped expand my brain. This was before I ever heard about "gurus". So that experience was a wash, and worth the money. Fast forward a few years, and then, because someone that I trusted very very much told me to spend a whole lot of money to join a real estate mastermind group with him, I took my game to an entirely new level this year. So if you are out there, searching for a group to join that will help you level up, keep searching. I'm not going to name the group I'm in, so don't ask. I'm not pitching for them, I just want to say that you're not alone in your desire for help. But I will tell you that the ONLY people these things work for are people who are ready to mentally commit to some serious growth and discomfort. Just paying the money doesn't ensure success. And you should be at a point where that amount of money isn't your last dime, because you're going to need some reserves while you grow.
Hi Beka-
Great post and I checked out your website.Of the 40 deals you're doing, how many are real flips and how many are wholesale deals?
Anybody have an update on their experiences?