"Guru Courses" in general

"Guru Courses" in general

Investor · Land O Lakes, FL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes

I have read many discussions here as well as numerous other places on the i-net about the vast array of courses offered on real estate investing. As far as I can ascertain, there are zero, nada, zilch and none that are legit. Apparently, many are (or have been) operated by an outfit in Cape Coral, Florida. One that has recently gained a lot of notoriety is Trump University. The reality, though, is that, without exception, all of these "training" programs operate exactly the same way: Free seminar, $2K seminar, $20K training, expensive mentoring. In short, no matter how hard one works, the repeatable successes just don’t exist. Further, they have cranked out so many "wholesaling robots" that you can throw a rock in any direction and hit ten of them.

The point here is this: The only way to put a halt to all of their shenanigans is to cut them off at the pass. If you haven’t already signed up for one of these programs, don’t. If you have, and feel like you’ve been ripped off, file complaints with the BBB (usually these outfits are registered in Utah), the Attorneys General in your home state as well as where they are registered, and with the Federal Trade Commission. If enough people file complaints, the agencies that are responsible for being the watchdogs will start paying attention and play "Whack-A-Mole" as soon as they pop up.

I know that some of you are thinking, "If you get sucked in, it’s your own fault!" All I can say is, these guys are very good at what they do! Further, if they actually delivered on their promises, it would be a bargain at twice the price. Unfortunately, all one is left with is a bunch of unfulfilled promises: no real knowledge, no affordable funding, no anything that can’t be had elsewhere for a lot less money, and would probably be better, more accurate information, since it would be localized.

To borrow a phrase, "Good night, and good luck!"

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Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y

Really? There are no courses that have any value? You must know everything and have the time to keep learning the ever changing rules and regulations on your own. I am not so fortunate. Or, perhaps, I am. I know that there are always things I can learn and skills I can improve. I have attended many valuable educational sessions covering real estate sales, purchases, rehab, laws, regulations, contracts, structure, construction, etc. I have even paid for many of them and many times I felt the tuition was fair. (There were some courses that I felt were overpriced but if I can pull a couple nuggets out of a session that make me a couple grand or meet someone else attending the session who I do a couple deals with it is still a good investment of time and money.) 

One should do some research before spending many thousands of dollars on general motivational courses but if that is what it will take for someone to get involved in changing their life that could be worth it. I do not advocate that approach but I do know a few people who spent large amounts on motivational type seminars who ended up determined to earn back what they spent and more--they were successful. (I know the large majority of people aren't.) I have heard and believe that most people who purchase courses never even unwrap them or read them. Does that mean the course had no value or that the purchaser wasn't ready to learn?

I know of no faster way to familiarize myself with new concepts or techniques than reading books and/or attending sessions that deal with those techniques. The very important bonus involved in attending sessions is that one can often meet other attendees or the speakers themselves who one may be able to do future business with. I have found that continuing my education allows me to recognize opportunities I would not have been aware of or known how to pursue. The returns are much greater than the costs.

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  • Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Really? There are no courses that have any value? You must know everything and have the time to keep learning the ever changing rules and regulations on your own. I am not so fortunate. Or, perhaps, I am. I know that there are always things I can learn and skills I can improve. I have attended many valuable educational sessions covering real estate sales, purchases, rehab, laws, regulations, contracts, structure, construction, etc. I have even paid for many of them and many times I felt the tuition was fair. (There were some courses that I felt were overpriced but if I can pull a couple nuggets out of a session that make me a couple grand or meet someone else attending the session who I do a couple deals with it is still a good investment of time and money.) 

    One should do some research before spending many thousands of dollars on general motivational courses but if that is what it will take for someone to get involved in changing their life that could be worth it. I do not advocate that approach but I do know a few people who spent large amounts on motivational type seminars who ended up determined to earn back what they spent and more--they were successful. (I know the large majority of people aren't.) I have heard and believe that most people who purchase courses never even unwrap them or read them. Does that mean the course had no value or that the purchaser wasn't ready to learn?

    I know of no faster way to familiarize myself with new concepts or techniques than reading books and/or attending sessions that deal with those techniques. The very important bonus involved in attending sessions is that one can often meet other attendees or the speakers themselves who one may be able to do future business with. I have found that continuing my education allows me to recognize opportunities I would not have been aware of or known how to pursue. The returns are much greater than the costs.

  • Investor · Stuart, FL · Member since 2016 · 193 posts · 32 votes
    10y

    @Robert Morse I appreciate the information. Here is a little discussion I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. LIke you said if people are stupid enough to fall for it, then why bother. My point of view is this, some of them might not have the mind set or the capacity to fulfill what they have been thought. Im not saying they are stupid, but they don't implement what they learned, and when doing business it isn't always about using what you are taught to the tee. They would have to put it into their own way. Ive always liked the question, Tell me what i have to do to be successful. Mark Cuban said once there is nothing the successful can say for the next person can be successful, just go out and do it for yourself. Thanks for starting this discussion Robert. Would like to connect with you cause you seem like a honest businessman. If interested send me a colleague request. What type of investing do you do?

  • Investor · Stuart, FL · Member since 2016 · 193 posts · 32 votes
    10y

    I agree  @Jeff Rabinowitz. Its not just for the materials they give you. Its about what you take from it, may it be partners, education, or what not.

  • Investor · Land O Lakes, FL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    I didn't state there were "no courses" that have any value. I am very much a proponent of education and training. I was specifically referring to the programs that are put on by the so-called "gurus", e.g., Trump, Montagliano, Rich Dad, Yancey, etc., etc. The list goes on and on. I signed up for the classes, so I speak as an "insider". I have joined local REI groups and continue to learn and seek advice and knowledge from others more experience than I.

  • Real Estate Agent · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 167 posts · 89 votes
    10y

    My perspective on this is quite simple and reduced to one basic premise...

    If they go looking for you (advertisements, flyers, radio spots, etc) then they are usually gimmicks... However, if you have to go looking for them (find them through google, referrals, etc.) then they can usually benefit you.

  • Investor · Roseburg, OR · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 17 votes
    10y

    We started buying houses in 1989. No books or gurus and now have a few in a couple states that we manage all are owned by Irrevocable Trusts with an LLC as the Qualified Trustee manager. I have a friend that spent a lot on one of the guru sets on how to make millions in real estate. She is still broke. My dad once said 95% of the population get a job and never even think of doing anything on their own, 3% will think about it 2% will actually get off their butts and do the WORK required.

    I think asking questions when they come up on this is probably a better option far cheaper and I think many have actually done something. That said I am still hoping to find someone who bought the LLC Master Machine and can tell me what 14 resolutions he has listed and what his 120 page operating agreement has? Curious but not curious enough to cough up $800

  • Investor · Lodi, NJ · Member since 2013 · 487 posts · 179 votes
    10y
    Fortune builders is a big one I personally know a couple of investors that have gone through their system. Pretty pricey. A handful experienced great success and either made their money back and then some or on their way. Another one has gotten stuck in the mud. I personally think it's buyer beware as anything else. Some people need that much on the line to really light a big enough fire under their butt to get going. I used a local expert who charged a bit to develop business credit and succeeded in getting what I needed. But I had to work my butt off to get there. I'm sure there are complete frauds out there, but not all should be labeled as such.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Robert Morse  I am glad to see some balanced discourse on this subject.

    I have a lot of personal knowledge with this as I have been funding deals for students of gurus since day one when they started up the bus tour's etc.

    and remember these things were started by smaller mom and pops many of them Jack Miller students ( and you only hear good things from him) the marketing companies or seminar companies are yes EXTREMELY good at what they do.. But they do it for a wide variety of business's not just RE guru's.. I have been to their offices on many occasions.. they also run the back end of the likes of Tony Robbins  Zig Zeigler and many other motivational speakers and many other subjects Real Estate is just one.. and your right its a HUGE money business.

    So if we focus on Real Estate ,, Real Estate is Real Estate.. it does not matter where you learn whatever you think you need to know.. only 10% or so that try it in any shape form or fashion will be doing it for a living 2 years or 3 years from now.. that includes RE agents.. but those that do succeed go on to have long and fruitful careers.. But I look at it two ways you have investors... ( which are usually what I call those that have nice incomes and quietly go about their way investing in cash flow or other tangible real estate be it land or timber or vacation rentals etc.)  they are not in the business they are investors.

    those in the business make money by transaction ( like me)  either lending, fix and flipping, the ever controversial wholesaling and assigning method, property management. Real Estate brokerage, Commerical agents... etc.

    So as I sit through the Guru semiars and I have sat through many... ( as for me its an extremely good place for someone like me who is looking to fund deals where else can you get 400 people all like minded in one room) and I talk to all of these folks over the years its just like when I owned my Real Estate brokerages I could pretty much tell who would stick and who would flame out.

    Its simply the law of averages and who are we to determine is 20 or 30k is too much money.. you would be shocked to learn how many top producing RE agents go to these.. and or folks that I talked to that just sold their business for a few million and want to learn this stuff in a consolidated manner and 20k to 30k is nothing and they think they get great value

    BP is a fabulous place to learn .. but its not the best place in my mind... I think you need human interaction and role play to really get the meat of the deal... you can only learn so much staring at a computer and then read threads with 180 degree divergent opinion's which are generally proffered by those either selling you something or want something or just want to believe its ok because some one told them that.. etc.

  • Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes
    10y

    The late night infomercials tell me that I can go from living in my parents garage to being a multimillionaire in six months by buying and selling property without having any money or credit.

    Save your money. You'll learn more here on BP than you'll ever learn from some alleged guru.

  • Investor · Land O Lakes, FL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Jeff Rabinowitz I re-read my original post and the way I phrased it was somewhat misleading; my bad! I only referring to the courses that so many folks have issue with that cost upward of $20K. Anyone who tries to do this entirely on their own will likely make some very expensive mistakes.

    @Eric Griemsmann I don’t mean to suggest that folks who take these classes are stupid. Quite the contrary, I have met some pretty sharp folks, some of whom have been in RE a long time. The problem is these promoters are extremely good motivational speakers, and extremely good salesmen. So it has nothing to do with intelligence nor even gullibility. It has to do with believing that one is going to get the training they were promised and paid for. The best analogy I can think of is that these programs are like paying for a four year degree. One reasonably expects the content that is commensurate with a four year degree, while all that is received is the content of a first semester "fluff" class. Again, if the promises were delivered (irrespective of one’s ability to successfully apply it), there would be no issue. It’s simply that the content isn’t there, or at least isn’t delivered.

    As far as seeming "like an honest businessman", thank you. I always strive to create "win-win" deals. If one person has to lose in order for another to win, it’s not, in my view, a good deal.

    @Seth Nadreau I think you summed it up very nicely, well put.

    @Jay Hinrichs I agree. I would not, however, be surprised at the number of long time RE agents that go to these things… I’ve met several! They are pretty sharp and I feel fortunate to have met them, a few of whom I stay in contact with. I also agree that $20-$30K is a drop in the bucket for good education, the operative being good.

  • Investor · Land O Lakes, FL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Fred Heller Agreed! The problem with these guys is, they don’t promise that one will become a millionaire in six months, working only 10 hours a week at home in their jammies. When I hear that pitch, I run for the door as fast as I can! They tell you that it’s not a get-rich-quick game, that a lot of work is required, and that some just plain won’t succeed. Some don’t possess the requisite skills, others don’t really have the desire. All of those thing are true of any training or educational product, including the best colleges and the finest trade schools.

  • Les JepsenPro Member
    Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Start reading books first. You may not need coaching if you haven't done any deals yet. The Bigger Pockets podcasts are a great way to learn. Once you are ready, the teacher will appear. Good luck to you.
  • Investor · Land O Lakes, FL · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Les Jepsen Yes, thank you very much. I read everything I can and try to surround myself with experienced, knowledgable people. I definitely learned the hard way!

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