BRRRR Investing During the Pandemic

BRRRR Investing During the Pandemic

Quinton HarrellPro Member
VA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 0 votes

Greetings and blessings to the BP community, hoping you and your Fam are sustained. 

My wife and I closed on a bank-owned property in S.C. in late September 2019 with a plan to implement the brrrr strategy, which we're in the latter part of the process (seeking refi.). 

- $40k purchase 

- $35k in reno and holding costs, 

- ARV of $90k conservatively (3bd, 3ba, 2010 sq. ft)

We moved a tenant in on March 1st and cash-flowing $256/mo. Tenant's employment is secure and is set up on auto-pay for the next 12 months, but we technically only have March and April for pay performance metrics. One notion is to hunker down and wait this thing out for several months, with a solid tenant in place. However, I'd love to pay off our micro-lender ($30k) and investor ($35k) in the midst of all the uncertainty. The purpose is three-fold: To strengthen the lender/investor relationships for future opportunities, gain a better rate in a long-position mortgage, and capture a bit of cash to strengthen our liquidity position.

We're in VA and my flaw in the strategy is I wasn't consistent and aggressive in farming banking relationships in S.C. early in the process. Now, I'm curious - with the pandemic's financial relief initiatives front & center and banks trying to manage the demand while managing a new form of risk and lack of gov't guidance - is there clear opportunities to get refinancing done? And if there is, I'd like to get pointed in the right direction.

- Is the seasoning period 6 months from closing or 6 months of tenancy?

- Should I follow the wisdom of sitting back and waiting till the dust settles?

My gut says it's really been time to act, to get some cash and queue up for coming opportunities. Are there any portfolio lenders out there, in S.C. or elsewhere that I can be reaching out to?

Pardon me! Lots of questions packed into this, but I believe in the BP community's wisdom to deliver!

Thanks in advance for any insights,

Q

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Herm M.Pro Member
Real Estate Investor · NorCal, CA · Member since 2009 · 273 posts · 43 votes
6y

when people do these type of deals, are you refinancing with conventional loans that ask for job history, tax returns, etc.?

Or are you getting a loan based on credit score, rental income of the property and LTV?

See this reply in the discussion

16 Replies

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  • Rental Property Investor · Greenwich, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Quinton Harrell, no matter what's happening now and what your future plans are you should be building those relationships. Start by looking into every local bank and CU in the area. SC will have a page on their website that lists every one licensed to lend in the state. Gotta do the leg work here.

    Seasoning is 6 months after closing in order to refi with a new appraisal.

    What is the purpose of waiting? Lending standards are tightening and I think it's more likely that property values will flatten or dip in the next 6-12 months, not rise.

    What's the ARV on your rental?

  • Quinton HarrellPro Member
    OP
    VA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    10-4 @Jaysen Medhurst, I'm on it.

    ARV $95k


    Thanks


  • Herm M.Pro Member
    Real Estate Investor · NorCal, CA · Member since 2009 · 273 posts · 43 votes
    6y

    when people do these type of deals, are you refinancing with conventional loans that ask for job history, tax returns, etc.?

    Or are you getting a loan based on credit score, rental income of the property and LTV?

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenwich, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Quinton Harrell, apologies. I missed where you had the ARV in your original post. Looks like if you refi you should just about settle everything up.

    @Herm M., the refi can be into a conventional or commercial loan. Really depends on the deal and what's available to the individual investor.

  • Quinton HarrellPro Member
    OP
    VA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    No sweat, @Jaysen Medhurst. As you see, I bumped up the ARV by $5k in my response to you. Trying my best to stay conservative. I got a few leads from my realtor in S.C. and some of his intersect with some of the ones I found when acting on your suggestion. So now it's time to start making calls. Thanks.

    @Herm M. with this being my first one, I haven't attained overstanding of the process yet. However, my understanding, to Jaysen's point, is it all depends on the deal. For instance, my banker here in VA takes a global view of the conventional and commercial indicators. i.e. tax returns, DTI, DSCR of 1.2 or more, credit score, LTV, etc. Unfortunately, they're not financing a deal in S.C.

  • Lender · Member since 2020 · 89 posts · 69 votes
    6y

    @Jaysen Medhurst @Quinton Harrell Hope you are all well. It is definitely a time to prospect, connect and  build new relationships.  Maintain the current ones by connecting and simply saying hello. I personally am nurturing all of my investors. Checking in on current projects in the works. Making sure current clients are paying on time and getting a feel as to how things are going in their world. As a lender we are open for business however filtering my new investors with a little bit of more questioning. We want to ensure our newbies are set up to succeed and not fail. Be safe!

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenwich, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Bumping up your ARV is actually being less conservative, @Quinton Harrell.

  • Quinton HarrellPro Member
    OP
    VA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Jaysen Medhurst LOL! Exactly!

  • Quinton HarrellPro Member
    OP
    VA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Jenny Roman Sound advice. 

    Be safe , be well.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 32 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    Hi Quinton,

    - It is part of the journey to keep building relationships in real estate no matter what - before, during, and after all of this craziness. Just don't stop building relationships in any area.

    - You can always get refinancing done. You might want to check the property value and speak with lenders to understand their underwriting criteria during these times. Of course, you always want to check if your strategy will support your refinance position. Numbers will tell you what's doable or not. Remember that there are multiple strategies and it is a matter  of what works for you and your lifestyle.I did a 2 video series with an amazing market and investor that might be helpful in evaluating your portfolio and what to look for. You can go to my YouTube Channel and look for Residential Real Estate Investing Strategies & Advice that works during the pandemic video.

    - When they are talking about the seasoning when the property performs.  p

    - Should you wait? This is a complicated question and it is a very personal answer. Some people decided to stand still and others to move forward and keep investing. Now if you keep investing, remember the principle of buying right. Personally, I'm discounting the actual ARV (after repair value) by 30% and I'm making my real numbers from there. Yes - I'm been super conservative. Of course, don't buy only one exit strategy - plan for the worst, expect the best.

    I know some portfolio lenders but it depends where? and type of asset. Send me a private message and I can just connect you with them.

  • Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2017 · 394 posts · 178 votes
    6y

    @Quinton Harrell I would start calling a lot of local banks.  You may be surprised at what you will find.  There is someone out there (portfolio lender, commercial bank) that will be willing to refinance it for although you may not get exactly everything you want without the full seasoning period.  Having some cash on hand is never a bad idea.

  • Quinton HarrellPro Member
    OP
    VA · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Jennifer Maldonado, I look forward to checking out your Youtube channel on my dedicated education day this week. Thank you for sharing.

    @Colby Fryar the bulk of my calls and inquiries have yielded the conclusion, thus far, that cash-out refi's for investors are at the bottom of the priority list for lenders (push-back to refute that is quite welcomed); taking on permanent financing at such low rates aren't as appealing. It appears the priority order for underwriters is:

    1. Home purchases

    2. Home refi for interest rate reduction only

    3. Cash out refi for homeowners

    Cash-out refi for investment properties are at the bottom of the barrel. Well, for those lenders and institutions I've talked to. With a strong credit score, a requirement of W-2 info. hindered us in certain circumstances being fully self-employed as of 4th qtr 2019. Another thing that happened in the roller-coaster of uncertainty is some lenders pushed their seasoning period requirements to 12 - 24 months.

    Undeterred, we continue to develop those relationships for the future, secured an investor for another all cash deal on a duplex last month for a fix and flip, and have decided that we're selling the townhouse in question also. The numbers, our strategic plan, and the potential of new opportunities lead the decision. So, not able to preach the gospel of successfully executing the BRRRR strategy yet, but in due time.

    Thanks for the insights and input. 

    Love shout to this community,

    Q

  • Herm M.Pro Member
    Real Estate Investor · NorCal, CA · Member since 2009 · 273 posts · 43 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jennifer Maldonado:

    Hi Quinton,

    - It is part of the journey to keep building relationships in real estate no matter what - before, during, and after all of this craziness. Just don't stop building relationships in any area.

    - You can always get refinancing done. You might want to check the property value and speak with lenders to understand their underwriting criteria during these times. Of course, you always want to check if your strategy will support your refinance position. Numbers will tell you what's doable or not. Remember that there are multiple strategies and it is a matter  of what works for you and your lifestyle.I did a 2 video series with an amazing market and investor that might be helpful in evaluating your portfolio and what to look for. You can go to my YouTube Channel and look for Residential Real Estate Investing Strategies & Advice that works during the pandemic video.

    - When they are talking about the seasoning when the property performs.  p

    - Should you wait? This is a complicated question and it is a very personal answer. Some people decided to stand still and others to move forward and keep investing. Now if you keep investing, remember the principle of buying right. Personally, I'm discounting the actual ARV (after repair value) by 30% and I'm making my real numbers from there. Yes - I'm been super conservative. Of course, don't buy only one exit strategy - plan for the worst, expect the best.

    I know some portfolio lenders but it depends where? and type of asset. Send me a private message and I can just connect you with them.

    Hi Jennifer, you 're able to find deals in California even after knocking 30% off the resale value? How is that even possible?

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 32 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    @Herm M. - For Cashflow properties or rehab, no way. If anyone finds those in here, please let me know.

    However, I do develop 3-4 units in Koreatown specifically. I do buy single-family homes where I can knock them down and build 3 and 4 units. I'm using ARVs of those 3-4 units and then making my numbers from there. If it doesn't pencil out, I won't go for it.

    If you are in the area, let me know and I will be happy to share some of those projects.

  • Herm M.Pro Member
    Real Estate Investor · NorCal, CA · Member since 2009 · 273 posts · 43 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jennifer Maldonado:

    @Herm M. - For Cashflow properties or rehab, no way. If anyone finds those in here, please let me know.

    However, I do develop 3-4 units in Koreatown specifically. I do buy single-family homes where I can knock them down and build 3 and 4 units. I'm using ARVs of those 3-4 units and then making my numbers from there. If it doesn't pencil out, I won't go for it.

    If you are in the area, let me know and I will be happy to share some of those projects.

     I'm in northern California. Thanks for sharing the info. How much do you end up paying in construction costs per SF when you build 3-4 units?

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 32 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    @Herm M. I'm paying $180 sqft with 10% extra and soft cost but my partner owns the construction company. Depending, you might be paying $200-250 for nice construction. 

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