Deal and Creativity advice needed - SFH St. Charles, Missouri

Deal and Creativity advice needed - SFH St. Charles, Missouri

Corporate Finance Manager / Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 26 posts · 4 votes

Hi all,

I am working through the details of my first potential buy and hold opportunity, and I would love feedback from the BP community on both the analysis of the deal as well as creative financing options, if available.  Quick background on the deal, is that this is the home I was raised in.  The property is located in St. Charles, Missouri and would be an out of state rental for me.  I would be purchasing the home from my parents who do not have a ton of equity in the property (refi in 2007) but just need to get out of the mortgage.  My long-term goal is to develop a portfolio in this area of cash flowing properties and focus on fix/flip in my local market.  Here are details on the property:

  • Two, story SFH built in 1978
  • Recorded as a 3/2.5 
  • 2 car garage
  • Corner lot
  • Good neighborhood, about 2 miles from retail and interstate
  • Comps in the area are hovering around $200K
  • Property has been vacant for the majority of the last 6 years although the mechanicals have been maintained

In regards to property condition:

  • Roof is 10 years old, shows wear from rain drainage
  • Furnace replaced in 2014
  • AC replaced in 2010
  • Exterior is brick, vinyl siding, and wood trim.  Wood trim might need painted at some point
  • Concrete porch needs mudjacked which will correct pitch in roof overhang
  • Concrete driveway could probably used replaced if I were selling
  • Rear wood deck needs maintenance on pickets and railing
  • Rear sliding door might need replaced, needs inspection
  • Garage ceiling drywall has caved, remove/replace
  • Bathroom mirrors need replaced
  • Bathroom toilet flushing mechanisms might need replaced
  • 5 years ago I removed all interior doors, baseboard, and painted interior
  • Baseboards and interior pre hung doors are sitting in the garage - need to inspect for damage
  • Kitchen appliances are all present and functioning
  • Brand new garage door opener is in box in the garage, not installed
  • Basement is unfinished
  • Master bedroom is connected to what could be a 4th bedroom by framing/drywalling the connecting wall.  Already has egress window, closet and access to the hallway
  • Neighbors are paying $5500 to have a couple dead trees and other landscaping removed by a contractor to improve the aesthetics of the neighborhood

I am headed back over Thanksgiving to further inspect the property as the descriptions above are all from a conversation with my father.  They aren't in a huge hurry to sell the property so I have some time to estimate a budget to bring the place to good rental condition, devise a plan for the repairs, and arrange financing.  In regards to the rental analysis, here are my numbers:

Purchase Price - $140,000

20%  Down - $28,000

Rehab Costs - $10,000 (very prelim/rough)

Loan amount - $112,000

  • Rental income ~$1500
  • Principal & Int - $568 (4.5% 30yr fixed)
  • Taxes - $210
  • Insurance - $100
  • Management - $100 (bro-in law short-term)
  • Maint/Capex - $200
  • Cash Flow - $322

Cash on cash return - 10.2% (16% without accruals)

My desire would then be to re-fi as soon as I can to somewhere close to a 75% LTV of the $200K ARV. This would provide a loan amount of $150K and allow me to pull all $38K I had into the property out for another investment. Revised financials below:

  • Cash Flow - $130/mo
  • No Money invested

So what would you do here?  Numbers fall within your investment criteria?  Would you handle financing differently?  I was hoping there would be a creative way to avoid using one of my 10 conventional loans for this property, but with the small equity they have and their current loan of 6.25% I don't see the opportunity.

Thanks for any insight you're willing to provide!!

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Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 57 votes
10y

Eric,

Lots to think about with this deal but specifically on the rehab, in my experience $10k will cover only the most basic rehab, even for a rental. We rehab about 20-30 properties an month, mostly in Florissant. St. Charles is a better area so the tenant expectations would be a little higher as well. Our typical budget is $20-30k. A paint-and-carpet rehab with a few other things thrown in is $10k but it sounds like you have a little more to do on this one.

St. Charles is a hot area so you may think about doing a retail flip instead. It's very hard to find rental yield in St. Charles County, which is why we almost exclusively buy in North St. Louis County (not St. Louis City). Even there, prices have been going up quite a bit. 

Good luck!

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  • Corporate Finance Manager / Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 26 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Another couple items I failed to include in the property condition section:

    • Pergo flooring as been purchased and is sitting in the garage for lower level living area, needs installed
    • Carpeted areas are subfloor and would need to purchase carpet ~1200sf
  • Investor · Collinsville, IL · Member since 2014 · 63 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    I am investor on the other side of St. Louis...please tell me where you are able to get a 30 year fixed on a rental property.  I have several banks "trying" to get me a 20 year fixed on my 15 house portfolio.  That detail would have an impact on the viability of your investment.  

  • Investor · Collinsville, IL · Member since 2014 · 63 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    Taxes seem too low as well...my area is probably similar or lower in property taxes from what I know of the St. Louis market (though I don't know much), yet would easily be $300 a month on a house like you've described.  What's the appraised value according to the city?  They may reevaluate property taxes at time of sale, which could impact your taxes dramatically.  Your father may have several tax exemptions (owner-occupant for one, possible senior, etc).  You won't qualify for these exemptions.  

  • Corporate Finance Manager / Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 26 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Joshua Rogers Thanks for the feedback and points for me to consider/research.  My loan program was based on a conversation I had with my broker out here in CO relative to my plan to use conventional loans for initial rental properties.  It sounds like you're into a portfolio lender situation, which I agree would definitely change the ball game.  I will be following up with my broker to better understand the considerations for the St. Louis market as well.

    In regards to property taxes, very good point.  The 2014 property value assessment through the county was $197K and the taxes were $2500.  I'm scouring the county site to determine if any exemptions exist but I'm failing to see anything documented.  I will definitely follow up on this point.  Is 1.2% of assessed value out of line with your market?

    Thanks again for your feedback!

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    Eric,

    Lots to think about with this deal but specifically on the rehab, in my experience $10k will cover only the most basic rehab, even for a rental. We rehab about 20-30 properties an month, mostly in Florissant. St. Charles is a better area so the tenant expectations would be a little higher as well. Our typical budget is $20-30k. A paint-and-carpet rehab with a few other things thrown in is $10k but it sounds like you have a little more to do on this one.

    St. Charles is a hot area so you may think about doing a retail flip instead. It's very hard to find rental yield in St. Charles County, which is why we almost exclusively buy in North St. Louis County (not St. Louis City). Even there, prices have been going up quite a bit. 

    Good luck!

  • Investor · Collinsville, IL · Member since 2014 · 63 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    On our rentals we tend to pay roughly 2% appraised value for property taxes (specifically in Collinsville, IL)

  • Ronald PerichPro Member
    Investor · Granite City, IL · Member since 2014 · 658 posts · 301 votes
    10y

    @Joshua RogersUnfortunately we live in the land of Chicago-style politics, governors who retire in jail, and the Land of Lincoln's pension obligations. Our property taxes are higher than just about every municipality in Missouri. But one thing to look at is if the taxes are reduced for senior exemptions

  • Wholesaler · Arnold, MO · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 183 votes
    10y

    @Eric Jackson

    I think you are a bit low on the rehab costs. Regarding the sagging drywall ceiling in the garage... water damage or just poor installation?

    I think you have the taxes about right but depending on where you are in St. Charles, the rental income sounds high. If someone has decent credit, they can buy a $200,000 house cheaper than that rent.

  • Ballwin, MO · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Eric, the rental estimate seems a bit optimistic for St. Charles, I would look into that a bit further to see if that is actually a number you could get....... I have my doubts on that one. I also agree with the others regarding the rehab budget it sounds insufficient for what you are looking at doing.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    @Eric Jackson

    It's your parents, they can simply put you on title as part of their estate planning, no issue. You can then work your real inside the family. 75% of their debt can be offset with a tenant in there or perhaps with a purchase contract with you, check at your bank.

    I see you said 20% down, the no money in it, how did you think that works, 20% needs to be your own money unless you get a gift letter.

    After being on title for a year, you can refinance it and remove your parents from the title after the loan, they don't sign the note for the refi, just the deed of trust. :)  

  • Corporate Finance Manager / Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 26 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Good points on the rehab estimate.  I am going to begin a more detailed budget and post that this week in advance of the trip back over Thanksgiving.  I'm also planning on taking care of many of the items myself through a week of vacation in late January if possible.  Line up contractors during that time for the items I can't take care of; mudjacking, carpet, etc.  

    @Gunnar Teltow  I'll be messaging you as I'm interested in hearing more about what you're doing in the St. Louis area, especially as an outside investor from Austin.  

    @Vince Mayer  Good question on the drywall.  To be honest, I believe it's improper installation from a few years ago.  He attempted to drywall it in and painted the entire space white.  Will be on the list for further inspection.

    @Vince Mayer @Scott Keating I will def look into both the ARV and rental rates more. I am going to work with a family friend / realtor in advance of my trip in Nov in order to have the CMA and rental analysis at hand to make a better call on the fix/flip vs. fix/hold strategy. Using Zillow Rents, there are only a couple 4 bed homes for rent and maybe a dozen or so 3 beds on the market. Prices ranging from $1100-$2000 with a wide mix in age, size, style, location as usual. I'll dig into this a bit more.

    @Bill Gulley Thank you for the creative financing contribution! At the end of the day, following the repairs, I would be re-financing with a conventional loan so this strategy you're mentioning avoids the fees associated with the initial loan and keeps my money out of the downpayment? I was initially planning to put it under contract prior to the rehab work and the property will not qualify for a conventional loan until I invest $10-20K bringing to move in condition. Once I invest in the rehab and increase the ARV to market levels, I would look to refi to 75-80% LTV in order to pull back out the cash I put into the initial downpayment and the rehabs. Depending on the assumptions and value increase, this would allow me to have none of my original investment into the deal. Here are my thoughts through numbers:

    Initial loan program:

    • $140,000 - Purchase Price
    • $28,000 - Downpayment - 80% LTV
    • $10,000 - (rehabs - probably light)
    • $200,000 - ARV after rehab
    • $88,000 - Equity (invested $38K, gained $50K)

    Second loan program:

    • $200,000 - ARV
    • $40,000 - Downpayment - 80% LTV
    • $160,000 - Loan amount
    • $48,000 - Remaining equity (check to me)

    I'm looking further into ARV and rehab costs which will impact this equation but you get the jist of what I was going for. Make sense?

  • Realtor and Investor · Leawood, KS · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 78 votes
    10y

    @Eric Jackson 

    1. How are you approximating the rental income at $1500/mo?  Are you using a website like www.hotpads.com or www.rentometer.com to see current rental listings for your area?  I highly recommend these sites. 

    2. Are you using the BP rental property calculator?  I also highly recommend it because it asks many questions that are easily forgotten in the grand scheme of things.  For example, are you (the owner) going to pay for sewer?  Garbage removal?  Water & electricity?

    3. Is there an HOA? If so, this is a totally different ballgame, and you'll want to share that with us in this thread.

    4. I would raise your total projected maintenance + capex costs from $200/mo to $300/mo to fit with the convention recommended by many successful R/E investors (each is 10% of gross monthly income).

    Good luck with everything and let us know how it all goes!

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