I am looking at a houseboat as my first investment

I am looking at a houseboat as my first investment

Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 16 votes

Some friends of mine are selling their houseboat. They've put a lot of time and money into it. It was their home and a place for them to do meetings and small retreats. They have two boats and they are selling them both because they are building a house and need the money for the next phase of their lives. This boat is really charming and since I am in the bus tour business as well as being a property manager it seems like a great opportunity for me to do tours on land and sea. Also I can rent it out as an airbnb so it can make money for me must by sitting in the marina. Its really a darling little boat and at 42k seems affordable as a first investment. I've done a lot of research into maintenance, mooring, licensing, insurance and etc and it all seems to pencil out even with modest success with the business side. And if he business tanked, i could give up my apartment and live on it. The monthly expense would be almost the same as what I pay now in rent. The only problem is, I haven't saved a down payment yet and I'm not sure my income is enough to get a loan from the bank. 

I could use some advice from experienced investors about whether this is a good investment and how to creatively finance it. 

My goal prior to this was to save up a down payment and buy a 4 plex once he market goes down. I still want to do that and/or partner with someone to buy an apartment complex. Is this a good first step - or a dangerous distraction ... 

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Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9y

Boat and investment  in the same  discussion .   Thats funny .   

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  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Distraction, stay on track.

    Wimbling risks losing better opportunities.

  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Personally I think Boats are holes in the water you throw money at. I have owned a couple and as a recreational "toy" they are fairly expensive, I can't imagine the true cost of keeping one that others are using as "recreation". All the maintenance of a boat and an apartment in the hands of someone who has no long term interest in it (short term renters).

    Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Angela Jossy Is this a house on flotation or a real house boat?  I have seen some of the permant houseboats on the west coast that are very nice and are expensive.  A true houseboat (like the one I am on right now) would not be a good rental, as you would not want someone operating it on the water and I don't think you could get insurance.  With a good view (sunsets, etc) sitting in a dock it might be a good short term rental if you manage it yourself and the slip fees aren't too much.  Winter rentals might be tough.  I would see what the rental season is and assume you would need a couple of years to get it booked solid.  However if you don't have the cash set aside to make it for a couple of years before cash flowing , I would look for another investment.  

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    if you think your income won't support a down payment... don't even try to support a boat. Boats require a lot of maintenance and they often have to get hauled out to do that......or you're paying very high labor rates.

  • Levi T.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Boats are a hole in the water, I've owned a few small sailing yachts, and am a ASA certified for sailing across internal waters in my past life... One could make a full time religion on the up keep alone. You will lose money!

  • Real Estate Broker · MI · Member since 2014 · 594 posts · 183 votes
    9y

    O.K. @Angela Jossy you have my attention. 

    Have you talked to a boat broker? 

    I'm curious myself if boat investing is viable.  

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Angela Jossy Also, have you talked to the marina about restrictions on short term rentals, subletting, etc? 

    That could be a deal breaker. 

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    Its called a Cruise-a-Home Corsair. (http://cruiseahome.nwcruising.net/).  The one I am looking at has been customized and its really special. Its only 40 feet so its like a tiny home inside. And its still a great tour boat too. I talked to the marina and they seemed OK with the Airbnb plan. I can only do that a max of 8 nights a month for now because I need to get Live-A-Board status in order to have that option full time. They are only allowed to use 10% of their slips for Live-A-Board and there are three people on the wait list before me. Could be a year or two before that happens but that's OK. 8 nights a month is plenty for me right now. I can do cruises throughout the summer and in the winter we have a great scuba season so I could do some excursions in the winter for that. According to my modest calculations, I could pay for the boats expenses for the whole year just on the summer excursions alone. 

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    How much is maintenance running you in your calculations... 

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    This should give you a better idea of what to expect... 

    https://csrmarine.com/rates/

    And if you want to carry passengers... 

    https://www.uscg.mil/pvs/SPV.asp

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    @Matt K. - the marina where I would keep it has an onsite repair shop. The cost for hauling it out is $500. I intend to borrow extra money beyond the purchase price so that I have money set aside. I also put $500 per month of the income in the business plan as an escrow account for repairs/maintenance. I also have various friends who work on boats, the seaport is a marketing client of  mine and there is a school for sea scouts less than two miles down the waterfront. 

  • Investor · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2016 · 229 posts · 122 votes
    9y

    @Angela Jossy   BOAT = Bust Out Another Thousand.

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    @Matt K. My friend has a captains license and my business plan currently is set up for 6 passengers or less. The six-pack option is much easier and doesn't require a coast guard inspection. 

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Angela Jossy:

    @Matt K. - the marina where I would keep it has an onsite repair shop. The cost for hauling it out is $500. I intend to borrow extra money beyond the purchase price so that I have money set aside. I also put $500 per month of the income in the business plan as an escrow account for repairs/maintenance. I also have various friends who work on boats, the seaport is a marketing client of  mine and there is a school for sea scouts less than two miles down the waterfront. 

     You might want to have a real convo with them about the maintenance schedule/cost for you boat. I'm not trying to talk you out of this but as someone who has managed quite a few contracts for repairs of similar sized boats... it can get VERY PRICEY.  If you intend to use it commercially (during the summer) it might force you to use shops outside of "friends" and it'll be on the books labor to pass certification. Things like engines, shafts, paint, etc all have a life span and it needs to be replaced/repaired. 

    Also note getting proper licensing can take a while too... and require certain maintenance items be done prior to operating.

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    I have just received an email from the owner answering some of my questions.  

    Hi Angela,

    Attached you will find the survey done last year. The carburetors have been replaced since then as well as fresh paint and some cosmetic upgrades.

    Estimated monthly expenses:

    Moorage (rates vary)

    Electric (rates vary depending on usage)

    Propane for heat & cooking = $10 - $30

    Fuel (rates vary depending on usage)

    Estimated annual expenses:

    Insurance (rates vary) $100+ per year

    Haul out and bottom paint every 1-2 years = $2000

    Replace zincs, dive service hull cleaning every 4-6 months = $150-$600

    Engine maintenance, tune up, oil change = apx $400 (rates vary, required services vary)

    Registration tabs = $80 - $140

    Let me know if you need anything else!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    I almost bought a yacht for airbnb use. Decided against it. Realized I was doing it more because I wanted the boat than for financial advantages (I say "yacht" but it's not the image you have in your mind. It was classified as a 'yacht' but it was about $220k. We're not talking about P.Diddy level stuff)
  • Ian HooperPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Louisville, KY · Member since 2016 · 78 posts · 40 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Angela Jossy:

    Its called a Cruise-a-Home Corsair. (http://cruiseahome.nwcruising.net/).  The one I am looking at has been customized and its really special. Its only 40 feet so its like a tiny home inside. And its still a great tour boat too. I talked to the marina and they seemed OK with the Airbnb plan. I can only do that a max of 8 nights a month for now because I need to get Live-A-Board status in order to have that option full time. They are only allowed to use 10% of their slips for Live-A-Board and there are three people on the wait list before me. Could be a year or two before that happens but that's OK. 8 nights a month is plenty for me right now. I can do cruises throughout the summer and in the winter we have a great scuba season so I could do some excursions in the winter for that. According to my modest calculations, I could pay for the boats expenses for the whole year just on the summer excursions alone. 

    In your initial post, you called the boat an, "investment." In the quoted post, you described a job.

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    @Ian Hooper I guess its a hybrid situation. I already do bus tours as a side business. I'm investing in my business as well as dipping my toe in the buy and hold world. It seemed like a manageable option at this stage. Borrowing 42k on something I can use to make money multiple ways seemed less risky than borrowing $300k for an actual house or multiplex. 

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Angela Jossy  My first houseboat was similar to the one you referenced.  The motors were expensive to maintain and while someone might want to live on it, it's very small.  One thing I forgot to mention earlier is to check on how marintine laws differ from your local landlord laws regarding live aboard vessels. Insurance seems low and there are property taxes as well..

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Angela Jossy I would advise not doing this deal if you need to borrow money to do fund it.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    9y

    Boat and investment  in the same  discussion .   Thats funny .   

  • Real Estate Professional · Dothan, AL · Member since 2017 · 22 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    Matthew Paul stole my joke! You REALLY want to do this for your FIRST investment? You got guts.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    9y

    I have another boat now , the only reason is to take my 12 and 9 year old out fishing and crabbing . A 14 ft aluminum with a 15 hp outboard . I have had bigger nice boats , and a smaller wallet .

    A buddy of mine just bought a 48 ft Sea Ray with twin Cats .  Fill up the tank $ 1800. Pull boat , paint bottom new zinks and wax the outside  $ 4800.00 . Slip fee $3000 for season .    Oh , he got a deal on the boat ,  $ 245,000

  • Steph C.Pro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Bristol County, MA · Member since 2010 · 153 posts · 37 votes
    9y

    I can't speak to the investment, but interestingly, I've seen a couple of articles just in the past week about people owning or investing in house boats.  These were focused in areas where real estate is VERY expensive, like San Francisco.  There's probably a market for this and may be worth exploring.  The articles I read all did mention that boat maintenance is expensive. 

    Here's one article I found: http://www.businessinsider.com/couple-buys-boat-to-avoid-san-francisco-rent-2017-7

    No matter what you decide, good luck, @Angela Jossy.

  • Pat JacksonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2017 · 284 posts · 137 votes
    9y
    BOAT=Bust Out Another Thousand
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