First Flip. In California. Sold in 24 hours!

First Flip. In California. Sold in 24 hours!

Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes

My wife and I have been analyzing wholesale deals we come across for almost a year, but the numbers never work out. We wanted to start doing quick flips, just in case the market took a dip. Our current project in Phoenix is a scrape/new construction, so there's a lot more market risk when you have to hold onto the property for a year. However, I've noticed that most wholesalers in Phoenix don't know how to price correctly, and a lot of them are even sending us MLS deals they get under contract. Wholesale deals don't seem to be 15-20% below market anymore.

So, we knew our two options were to start direct mail marketing ourselves, or look elsewhere. We decided to take a look at properties back in my hometown in California. It's about 90 minutes East of San Diego - a town called El Centro. The area made sense for us; we have people there that can manage the day to day, we know plenty of people involved in construction, and my parents still live there, so we have a place to stay. Plus, its only about a 3 hour drive from Phoenix. 

After about a month of just getting to know the market better through looking on the MLS, I came across the cheapest property I had seen. It was listed for $115,000. It was listed as a 2 bed 2 bath, but I noticed that it had 1,500 sq ft. That was an alarm bell for me, knowing that most houses that were 1,500 sq ft had 3 bedrooms. I called my brother and asked him to go check it out for me. He did a video walkthrough of the property, and sure enough, there were 3 bedrooms. The listing agent had dropped the ball, and we knew this would cut out a lot of lazy potential investors.

The video also showed that there were some serious foundation issues with this house. The tub in the second bath had sunk 3 inches below the floor. The same thing happened to the shower in the master bath. There were actual holes in the floor, and you could see the dirt two feet lower. Walking through the house, you felt like you could fall through at any time. This was driving most investors away, and I loved it!

I reached out to a close friend of mine from high school, who is an entrepreneur and has some free time, to see if he was interested in partnering on the project. We would cover 100% of the costs, and he would manage the day to day of the rehab, and we would split the profit 50/50. He readily agreed. He met with his agent and contractor at the property, to determine the scope of the project, budget and an ARV. The contractor had just recently fixed a house with the same foundation issues, and was confident it wouldn't cost more than $5,000. He actually quoted us for $2,500. Speaking with the listing agent, most investors had priced this repair at $15,000+. Another edge over the competition. Our renovation budget came to $43K, and we set our ARV at $210,000. This was a very conservative ARV, mainly because there weren't a lot of comparables. Using the 70% rule, we decided that the most we could purchase it for was $116,900.

Through discussions with the listing agent, we learned that they already had an offer over asking; about $10K over. Knowing that our ARV was conservative, we decided we still wanted the property. We settled on an offer of $122,500, just under the other offer, but removed the inspection contingency. We were already replacing all electrical and plumbing. Plus, we were able to get a copy of an inspection report done 6 months prior, when the owner decided he wanted to sell. When my brother had gone to make the walkthrough video, he happened to ask the agent if he had one, so he sent it over. No one else was given a copy, apparently. We also said we can close in 7 seven days.

Offer accepted! Like mentioned in quite a few BP podcasts, you always wonder if you overpaid when your first offer is accepted. However, we are getting into this to create systems and do many deals per year, so we didn't sweat it too much. We needed to get our first deal started. 

We set a renovation timeline of 45 days, 45 DOM, and 30 days to close, putting us at 4 months for the project. Holding costs would be around $1,500. Also, our agent offered a 4% commission, instead of the standard 6%, if we used him again to sell the property. He also offered to market the property throughout the renovation, doing a weekly video update. 

A few items came up during the renovation that caused our budget to increase to $55,000. We pressure washed the stucco and tried repainting it, but it looked horrible. $4,000 for new stucco (which is actually a good deal) - ouch. The rest of the overage was spread around fairly evenly; $1.5K for bathrooms, $1K for doors (interior and exterior), $1.5K for demo, $1K for framing, $1.5K for painting. 

The renovation ended up taking 60 days instead of 45. Our agent listed it on the MLS on 10/3/17 for $224,900, but didn't put it on lockbox. Instead, he set a two hour open house for the following evening, 10/4. We met up with the agent at the house to recap how it went. He had 27 groups through the open house, breaking his previous record of 24; and this was on a Wednesday! We pressed him for any constructive criticism, and he said he didn't hear a single complaint the entire evening. We received 4 offers that night, with the lowest one being our asking price! We countered the top two offers, telling them to submit their highest and best. We also declined the home warranty in one of them. The next morning, we accepted an offer for $7K over asking! We are set to close in less than three weeks from now.

If you want to see pictures of the renovation, as well as the initial walkthrough video my brother did, here is the link:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/T5wA0oXNlqxmFqWm1

Here is a before and after video our agent did to help market for the open house (even though there was only 24 hours):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdYGwjQ-3Vw

And here are the weekly videos our agent did to put on social media, creating a buzz throughout the 9 week project, that probably really helped get traffic to our open house. Pardon the dramatic music: 

Week 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX5JGmmjz94

Week 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0D5Wi1eqks

Week 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeNGmT_p-Y

Week 5 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkOhYYaJvAM

Week 6 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_OxfREcMWs

Week 7 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ecx4i1xoOw

Week 8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh9S1nMAUEM

Additional Open House promotional videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tydz6WQSlyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7f2ekwkaV8

Lastly, the numbers. 

Purchase Price$124,010
Remodel$54,990
Holding Costs$1,225
Project Costs$180,225

------------------------------------------

Sales Price$232,000
Commission-$9,280
Closing Costs-$1,725
Net Sales Price$220,995

------------------------------------------

Net Sales Price$220,995
Project Costs-$180,225
Profit$40,770


------------------------------------------

Note that included in the purchases price is title fees, plus a $1K finders fee I gave to my brother for doing the video. He also helped paint, not knowing he would be getting the $1k. 

And that's our first flip! 

19Reply
212 views

Most Popular Reply

Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:
Originally posted by @Michael Plante:

sold in one day I would believe I listed too low

Also you probably could have listed it with a flat rate mls listing company and saved the $9,000

My estimate the next one you could make 50% more profit on the exact same type of deal 

Agreed on being listed too low. Like I mentioned, there weren't a lot of comparables, so it's hard to know how high you can go. However, right before it went on the MLS, one sold 3 blocks away for $232K (our eventual sales price). I told my agent I wanted to raise the price, but he had already been pre-marketing it on social media for a few hours at $225K and advised against raising it. He just used the new comp in negotiations.

Regarding the flat rate mls, my business partner is actually going to take the test again to reactivate his old license. Should save us quite a bit, but not sure it would have saved us the $9,000. How would the buyer's agent get paid? . We'll still use the other agent on any deals he brings us, though. And my wife is licensed here in Arizona, for our projects in Phoenix. 

You pay $7 a day to be listed on the MLS and you will also be on Zillow Redfin etc

That also includes someone taking professional photos of the house, and a sign for the yard

For $35 they send post cards to all the local realtors

The contact person is you so you don’t have to pay any commission 

Of you like you can offer to pay a selling agent

If you don’t want to do your own open house you pay $200 to have one hosted by a local agent who also provides purchase cabinets Contracts.  Even if someone buys from the open house you pay no commission

I just sold a house like this and saved  $15,000

It sold for more than a number of real estate agents here on BP said the house would sell for 

See this reply in the discussion

49 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joseph M.:

    @Sam Grooms , congrats!  Nice to see the before and after, very big difference! 

    I was wondering , do you plan to work with the same partner on other deals?  If you have several flips going on at the same time eventually as you mentioned it might make more sense to hire a project manager type employeee rather than flip 50 percent of profit? 

    Thanks, Joseph! Yeah, I had somewhat forgotten how bad it was until my agent sent me that video. 

    Regarding my partner, he's a close friend (was in my wedding), so any future deals I get in El Centro, I'll definitely include him on. I remember a BP podcast, where the interviewee approached agents in various cities around the country to do flips, where most of the profit was split between the agent and the private lender. The interviewee only took something like 25%. BUT, this allowed him to do 100+ deals per year; and he was just getting started. I wouldn't mind replicating that model. In my case, my partner is soon to be the agent on our deals, too. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Simon Ruiz:

    Sam Grooms You mentioned looking through the MLS for your deal.. Did you use a public website to find the deal like zillow or did you use the realtor version MLS???

     For this deal, it was just Zillow. Until I found this deal, I wasn't completely sure I was going to flip in California. All I was doing was marketing research. 

    Once my partner gets his license again, I'll use flexmls for California, which is what I use for Arizona through my wife. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Hau N.:

    That's a good real estate broker for making 3 promotional videos.  I know what to look for in the future.  

     You'll likely have to train your agent/broker to do something like that. I've actually never seen one do anything like it. We got lucky finding him, my partner had used him in the past and said he was the best in the area. Also, I think we were his test case for those videos. Looking at his youtube channel, I don't see any similar videos before this project. You could definitely tell he was getting better at it week by week. 

    I think Brandon Turner wrote an article about training your agent. That might be a good place to start. And feel free to show your agent the videos, and tell them how well they were received from potential buyers (27 groups through with 24 hour notice of the open house). 

  • Nashville, TN · Member since 2017 · 82 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    Awesome, smart move on saving a couple $$ using amazon. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:

    Thanks, Joseph! Yeah, I had somewhat forgotten how bad it was until my agent sent me that video. 

    Regarding my partner, he's a close friend (was in my wedding), so any future deals I get in El Centro, I'll definitely include him on. I remember a BP podcast, where the interviewee approached agents in various cities around the country to do flips, where most of the profit was split between the agent and the private lender. The interviewee only took something like 25%. BUT, this allowed him to do 100+ deals per year; and he was just getting started. I wouldn't mind replicating that model. In my case, my partner is soon to be the agent on our deals, too. 

     Yeah that is important to have someone you can trust like that. That's interesting about the podcast where the investor approached agents in various cities to partner on deals. I think I've listened to most of the podcasts but can't remember that one. That is an interesting concept for sure.

  • Real Estate Professional · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    Wow, amazing work :)

  • Jo-Ann LapinPro Member
    Loan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
    9y

    The community here is great. Always reach out.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Patrick Anibaldi:

    $39k profit split 2 ways with your partner before taxes. Curious if you set this up strategically to minimize short term Cap gains taxes? 

    Did you consider BRRRing this instead? Could you have done a cash-out refi, and rented it out with positive cash flow? California is tough for BRRR strategy but you may have been able to pullit off.

    I find San Diego to be great for BRRR. I base this on good return on rehabs. Just look at the various flipping TV shows in So Cal. In addition in recent years there has been great market appreciation. So if the rehab by itself is not enough to get your initial investment out via refinance maybe it got the necessary bump via the market appreciation.

    I do a modified BRRR as I typically rehab upon tenant turnover (assuming tenant is worth keeping). One refi appraisal came in way lower than my projection (actually 2 but one I appealed and got an $80k upper). Every refi including the one with the bad appraisal (from my perspective) has alllowed me to recoup my original investment.

    So I find San Diego to have been an easy locale for BRRR.

  • Charleston, SC · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    That's amazing man, love hearing stories like these! Really motivating stuff!

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joseph M.:
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:

    Thanks, Joseph! Yeah, I had somewhat forgotten how bad it was until my agent sent me that video. 

    Regarding my partner, he's a close friend (was in my wedding), so any future deals I get in El Centro, I'll definitely include him on. I remember a BP podcast, where the interviewee approached agents in various cities around the country to do flips, where most of the profit was split between the agent and the private lender. The interviewee only took something like 25%. BUT, this allowed him to do 100+ deals per year; and he was just getting started. I wouldn't mind replicating that model. In my case, my partner is soon to be the agent on our deals, too. 

     Yeah that is important to have someone you can trust like that. That's interesting about the podcast where the investor approached agents in various cities to partner on deals. I think I've listened to most of the podcasts but can't remember that one. That is an interesting concept for sure.

     I just spent the last 30 minutes looking for the podcast, and right when I started thinking I must've imagined it and was going to give up, I found it. Show 209. 

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    Great job on the rehab! My property went under contract in 4 days, but 24 hours is amazing! Keep up the great work. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y

    Thanks, @Account Closed, I agree that's it's possible to BRRR in San Diego, but I wouldn't call it easy. The biggest problem is buying right in San Diego. With it being a popular vacation home location, many people will overpay for properties. But, I guess if you're able to buy right, any place can become easy. Curious, how are you finding your properties?

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:

    Thanks, @Account Closed and @Sam Waterstein. 

    @Dan H., I agree that's it's possible to BRRR in San Diego, but I wouldn't call it easy. The biggest problem is buying right in San Diego. With it being a popular vacation home location, many people will overpay for properties. But, I guess if you're able to buy right, any place can become easy. Curious, how are you finding your properties?

    Mostly on the MLS and mostly duplex to triplex.

    However, I am not so sure I agree with the basis of your premise.  If I purchase a home that has forced appreciation opportunity and I pay appraised value it should work out. 

    Are you saying that you believe that our return on the money spent for the forced appreciation is less than other parts of country?   If you are, I do not agree.  I will use that there is one major flipping show based in OC and a less major flipping show based in San Diego as evidence to the contrary.

    If you are stating the entry cost is high I do agree but this is also reflected in the value of the refi so that is a net wash.  

    What is necessary is to identify properties that have force appreciation significantly greater than the cost of the forced appreciation.  On the OC flipping show Flip and Flop they buy below value but where they do great is their return on the forced appreciation.   Most of their profit is typically on their forced appreciation (the reason for the rehab, if it was just buy below market and sell at market they would not bother with the effort of the rehab).  They also can rehab for significantly less than I can so their efficiency in their rehab helps their profit.  However as a buy n hold I do not need the same return as they require in order to get my initial investment out.

    What I find is the best return on rehab costs are the properties most in need of a rehab.  If a kitchen is a little old but functional it will not return as much on rehab as a property that has a destroyed kitchen (cabinets busted, counter burned or broken, floor in real bad shape).  Same for other parts of the property.  Note if I am replacing cabinets I do not care that the cabinets are destroyed versus just old but the unit with a functional kitchen that is old likely appraised higher and therefore likely cost more (all other things equal) than the one with the destroyed kitchen.

    I recently placed offers on 2 duplexes.  One duplex was thrashed (both units) and presented a good opportunity for forced appreciation (unfortunately that is the one that fell out of escrow) and one duplex that is in a nicer location but only one of the two units would likely provide a good return on the rehab (I suspect I will close on that duplex next week).  The other unit of the duplex is far from perfect but it is not bad enough to provide a good return on rehab.  The forced appreciation opportunity on this property is less than ideal due to only one unit having good forced appreciation opportunity but I liked the location, the cash flow was good for San Diego (meaning it was pretty poor compared to the Midwest), and it was below market price (I think ~$30K below market but the appraisal showed much less below market but I know this market better than the appraiser) so it looks like I will soon own another duplex.

    Good luck

  • Rental Property Investor · Calexico, CA · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 3 votes
    9y
    Sam , I don't know any wholesalers in El Centro. And yes, I think I am the only BP member in the area. Let's keep in touch.
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Great success story, your numbers are fantastic. That is a huge profit on a small investment (tiny by my standards here in CA) which catapults your ROI.

    I only have one question/constructive crticism: You mentioned this in your first post - "We countered the top two offers, telling them to submit their highest and best." - My question is, why would you not counter all 4 offers and maybe one of the askmprice offers would have come up higher than the others or provide better terms? 

    Other than that, congrats on your success. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Miguel Rivera:

    Sam , I don't know any wholesalers in El Centro.

    And yes, I think I am the only BP member in the area.

    Let's keep in touch.

     Just sent you a colleague request. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Will Barnard:

    Great success story, your numbers are fantastic. That is a huge profit on a small investment (tiny by my standards here in CA) which catapults your ROI.

    I only have one question/constructive crticism: You mentioned this in your first post - "We countered the top two offers, telling them to submit their highest and best." - My question is, why would you not counter all 4 offers and maybe one of the askmprice offers would have come up higher than the others or provide better terms? 

    Other than that, congrats on your success. 

    Thank you. Annualized, our ROI would be over 90% (obviously not achievable, but useful for comparison/opportunity cost calculations). Imagine when we start using OPM, too.

    We received an offer for $5K over asking right after the open house, so there was some back and forth with the other three before they submitted their offers, to see if it was high enough to even be considered. When those three submitted their offers, two of them said it was the highest they could go. Regarding terms, I'm not sure we could have gotten any better. We got them all to 30 day closing, no home warranty, and no termite inspection. We were splitting the escrow fees, so I guess we could have pushed back there. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Dan H.:
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:

    Thanks, @Account Closed and @Sam Waterstein. 

    @Dan H., I agree that's it's possible to BRRR in San Diego, but I wouldn't call it easy. The biggest problem is buying right in San Diego. With it being a popular vacation home location, many people will overpay for properties. But, I guess if you're able to buy right, any place can become easy. Curious, how are you finding your properties?

    Mostly on the MLS and mostly duplex to triplex.

    However, I am not so sure I agree with the basis of your premise.  If I purchase a home that has forced appreciation opportunity and I pay appraised value it should work out. 

    Are you saying that you believe that our return on the money spent for the forced appreciation is less than other parts of country?   If you are, I do not agree.  I will use that there is one major flipping show based in OC and a less major flipping show based in San Diego as evidence to the contrary.

    If you are stating the entry cost is high I do agree but this is also reflected in the value of the refi so that is a net wash.  

    What is necessary is to identify properties that have force appreciation significantly greater than the cost of the forced appreciation.  On the OC flipping show Flip and Flop they buy below value but where they do great is their return on the forced appreciation.   Most of their profit is typically on their forced appreciation (the reason for the rehab, if it was just buy below market and sell at market they would not bother with the effort of the rehab).  They also can rehab for significantly less than I can so their efficiency in their rehab helps their profit.  However as a buy n hold I do not need the same return as they require in order to get my initial investment out.

    What I find is the best return on rehab costs are the properties most in need of a rehab.  If a kitchen is a little old but functional it will not return as much on rehab as a property that has a destroyed kitchen (cabinets busted, counter burned or broken, floor in real bad shape).  Same for other parts of the property.  Note if I am replacing cabinets I do not care that the cabinets are destroyed versus just old but the unit with a functional kitchen that is old likely appraised higher and therefore likely cost more (all other things equal) than the one with the destroyed kitchen.

    I recently placed offers on 2 duplexes.  One duplex was thrashed (both units) and presented a good opportunity for forced appreciation (unfortunately that is the one that fell out of escrow) and one duplex that is in a nicer location but only one of the two units would likely provide a good return on the rehab (I suspect I will close on that duplex next week).  The other unit of the duplex is far from perfect but it is not bad enough to provide a good return on rehab.  The forced appreciation opportunity on this property is less than ideal due to only one unit having good forced appreciation opportunity but I liked the location, the cash flow was good for San Diego (meaning it was pretty poor compared to the Midwest), and it was below market price (I think ~$30K below market but the appraisal showed much less below market but I know this market better than the appraiser) so it looks like I will soon own another duplex.

    Good luck

    I think the flippers in California are on TV, because it's California. If you're saying they're on TV because their return on money spent for forced appreciation is greater than other parts of the country, I disagree. I can't see how you would be using them as evidence any other way, unless they are making this comparison in the show. 

    For the typical BRRR strategy to work, you have to have a 25% return on your purchase price plus rehab (to have zero money into the property after the refinance). This gives you the LTV of 80% for conventional financing. That's not easy to do with forced appreciation alone. Hence, buying below market. It takes a combination of buying below market and forced appreciation through rehab in most markets for the typical BRRR strategy to work.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:
    Originally posted by @Dan H.:
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:

    Thanks, @Account Closed and @Sam Waterstein. 

    @Dan H., I agree that's it's possible to BRRR in San Diego, but I wouldn't call it easy. The biggest problem is buying right in San Diego. With it being a popular vacation home location, many people will overpay for properties. But, I guess if you're able to buy right, any place can become easy. Curious, how are you finding your properties?

    Mostly on the MLS and mostly duplex to triplex.

    However, I am not so sure I agree with the basis of your premise.  If I purchase a home that has forced appreciation opportunity and I pay appraised value it should work out. 

    Are you saying that you believe that our return on the money spent for the forced appreciation is less than other parts of country?   If you are, I do not agree.  I will use that there is one major flipping show based in OC and a less major flipping show based in San Diego as evidence to the contrary.

    If you are stating the entry cost is high I do agree but this is also reflected in the value of the refi so that is a net wash.  

    What is necessary is to identify properties that have force appreciation significantly greater than the cost of the forced appreciation.  On the OC flipping show Flip and Flop they buy below value but where they do great is their return on the forced appreciation.   Most of their profit is typically on their forced appreciation (the reason for the rehab, if it was just buy below market and sell at market they would not bother with the effort of the rehab).  They also can rehab for significantly less than I can so their efficiency in their rehab helps their profit.  However as a buy n hold I do not need the same return as they require in order to get my initial investment out.

    What I find is the best return on rehab costs are the properties most in need of a rehab.  If a kitchen is a little old but functional it will not return as much on rehab as a property that has a destroyed kitchen (cabinets busted, counter burned or broken, floor in real bad shape).  Same for other parts of the property.  Note if I am replacing cabinets I do not care that the cabinets are destroyed versus just old but the unit with a functional kitchen that is old likely appraised higher and therefore likely cost more (all other things equal) than the one with the destroyed kitchen.

    I recently placed offers on 2 duplexes.  One duplex was thrashed (both units) and presented a good opportunity for forced appreciation (unfortunately that is the one that fell out of escrow) and one duplex that is in a nicer location but only one of the two units would likely provide a good return on the rehab (I suspect I will close on that duplex next week).  The other unit of the duplex is far from perfect but it is not bad enough to provide a good return on rehab.  The forced appreciation opportunity on this property is less than ideal due to only one unit having good forced appreciation opportunity but I liked the location, the cash flow was good for San Diego (meaning it was pretty poor compared to the Midwest), and it was below market price (I think ~$30K below market but the appraisal showed much less below market but I know this market better than the appraiser) so it looks like I will soon own another duplex.

    Good luck

    I think the flippers in California are on TV, because it's California. If you're saying they're on TV because their return on money spent for forced appreciation is greater than other parts of the country, I disagree. I can't see how you would be using them as evidence any other way, unless they are making this comparison in the show. 

    For the typical BRRR strategy to work, you have to have a 25% return on your purchase price plus rehab (to have zero money into the property after the refinance). This gives you the LTV of 80% for conventional financing. That's not easy to do with forced appreciation alone. Hence, buying below market. It takes a combination of buying below market and forced appreciation through rehab in most markets for the typical BRRR strategy to work.

    It is a subtle difference but I did not use the So Cal flipper shows to show that the return on rehab was better in So Cal than other parts of the country as much as to show that good/great returns can be achieved on the rehab investment in So Cal (which is not to say that other parts of the country also cannot have good returns on the rehab investment).  The shows consistently rehab achieving very good returns on their rehab expense.  Of course they are very good at what they do.

    As for the refinance you need it to appraise high enough that you get your money out at the LTV of the loan terms (80% in your example). I agree that it may not be simple to get your entire investment (purchase investment and rehab investment) out but I have been able to get purchase investment out on every San Diego purchase except for my most recent purchase (it was not a forced appreciation play - no rehab) but as indicated I have also had some advantage of market appreciation because I typically do not evict so the refi is typically more than a year after closing. I also typically purchase a little below market price. I did 2 refi early this year (the last 2 that I did). Their appreciation let me cash out (not including full rehab costs) at 70% LTV (so even harder than your example). They both rose more than 50%. Again it was not all forced appreciation but most of it was.

    I am certainly not stating every property would allow this.   You need to identify the properties that will produce a good return on the rehab budget (the type that the flippers are purchasing and making good money rehabbing).  Then you need to execute close to the rehab budget (I am always over).  And it helps if there is some market appreciation helping out the numbers.

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Grooms:
    Originally posted by @Will Barnard:

    Great success story, your numbers are fantastic. That is a huge profit on a small investment (tiny by my standards here in CA) which catapults your ROI.

    I only have one question/constructive crticism: You mentioned this in your first post - "We countered the top two offers, telling them to submit their highest and best." - My question is, why would you not counter all 4 offers and maybe one of the askmprice offers would have come up higher than the others or provide better terms? 

    Other than that, congrats on your success. 

    Thank you. Annualized, our ROI would be over 90% (obviously not achievable, but useful for comparison/opportunity cost calculations). Imagine when we start using OPM, too.

    We received an offer for $5K over asking right after the open house, so there was some back and forth with the other three before they submitted their offers, to see if it was high enough to even be considered. When those three submitted their offers, two of them said it was the highest they could go. Regarding terms, I'm not sure we could have gotten any better. We got them all to 30 day closing, no home warranty, and no termite inspection. We were splitting the escrow fees, so I guess we could have pushed back there. 

     Well, with those added details, sounds like you did everything you could with what you had so kudos to you for that. Again, congrats on your great success, that is a home run deal in this competitive market. 

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 664 posts · 231 votes
    9y

    Very nice, congratulations.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 583 posts · 919 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Bruce May. @Will Barnard, I'll have to be more detailed throughout the next flip, because I'm sure there are a lot things we could have improved. 

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by :

    Thanks@Will Barnard, I'll have to be more detailed throughout the next flip, because I'm sure there are a lot things we could have improved. 

     That could be said about us all. Every flip I do I learn something new it seems and keep making adjustments to my processes. I have done a lot of deals to date and it never ceases to amaze me how I can still run into something new.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.