https://reason.com/2020/03/25/...
The state of New York has a bill to CANCEL rent for 90 days for workers affected by the virus! This isn't deferring rent payment; it is waiving it.
Those landlords who have mortgages may not be affected by this if their lenders also waive/delay mortgage payments, but those of us whose only income is from a couple of properties that have no mortgages, it will be catastrophic. I am in that category.
I see this as theft of my private property sponsored by the state. Man has instituted governments to protect our rights (see: Declaration of Independence), not take my private property and give it to someone else. The state is guilty of that which it was commissioned to prevent - theft. Once again those of us who who made great sacrifices to do the best thing would be greatly penalized. The one who works hard would be forced to pay for those who make foolish decisions and live care free.
We're getting closer to mob rule and these LAWMAKERS in NY creating the hashtag: #cancelrent (found in the article) to whip everyone up in a frenzy, is as close to it as I've ever seen.
I wouldn't touch NY with a ten-foot pole.
If you believe certain actions by the state are unethical and immoral than you believe it. Thats not arguable.
You are defending your belief using a property rights argument to say such targeted actions are "tyranny". Call it what you will; the examples I gave tried to show its not unusual for the (elected) government to override individual property rights in the name of promoting the general welfare...especially during unusual circumstances. We actually fought a civil war over an unjust definition of "property". Top income tax bracket (over 200K) in WWII was 94% by the way.
But we are going down the wrong rabbit hole with a pure "property rights" discussion. The bill would NOT take your property, it would temporarily limit your economic use of it. Thats very different. Such actions--fair or unfair--are taken ALL THE TIME, just ask AB&B owners.
Grocery stores--your favorite example--or gas stations can be mandated to keep prices level during an emergency. The now invoked National Defense Production act can allow the executive to redirect industrial production and (with congressional assent) utilize price controls.
You don't have to like it, and the bill is probably awful legislation (haven't read it) but please keep in mind that many are dying in NYC and up here in Boston they are repurposing hotels for hospital beds even as we post these things...lets keep some perspective.
I just want to agree with you in denouncing any tyranny. I would suggest everyone limit their daily news consumption as well.
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@Jonathan R McLaughlin: None of the examples you gave had a $0 reimbursement.
We could go back and forth forever by ignoring our foundational difference, so I'll cut to the chase and ask you again: Do you have any examples of government programs where a small business owner is ordered by the state to give away a product or service with no reimbursement?
@Christian D.who does that help forbearance? Most people can't afford to fall behind in their rent or mortgage then whose going to be able to catch up or get more government assistance?
I was thinking ventilators and masks are needed so much right now and they are not making a bill and just taking them, they are paying extra for them. Why is my rental any different? This next part is going to sound left field but what about the psychology behind it being free. When you get something free you treat it differently,
we will still be responsible to repair a place without incoming rent. Very frustrating
Wow, it'll definitely be interesting if this thing passes or not. I'm in Florida and I've been seeing a lot of renters complain about still having to pay rent on the 1st due. I don't believe there's been a statewide moratorium in Florida yet for rent freeze. The SBA has a paycheck protection loan that includes independent contractors and self employed individuals.
Proud New Yorker here...but I'm definitely looking for out-of-state for my first investment. I understand everyone is struggling right now with this new virus, but why isn't the government getting more involved in giving people more aid so bills can be paid on time???? The only thing this new bill will cause is higher rent for market rate apartments in order to make up for loss of income... from what I've heard insurance companies are looking the other way and are not offering any type of protection to owners.
Some Good NEWS!
No additional rent relief for New Yorkers as April 1 nears, Gov. Cuomo saysBy: Lauren Cook
NEW YORK — With April 1 just days away, many renters in New York who are struggling financially because of the coronavirus outbreakare still hoping for relief from the state.
An online petition calling for a statewide suspension of rent, mortgage, and utility payments has garnered over 78,000 signatures.
But Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Monday said his administration does not have any plans to offer additional assistance outside of an already existing executive order that prevents landlords from evicting tenants for non-payment for three months.
The governor said it’s up to individual tenants whether they want to pay rent in the coming months, but regardless they cannot be evicted if they don’t.
“It’s not that you won’t owe rent at one time, right, because you signed a contract,” he added.
Earlier Monday, Mayor Bill de Blasio said he supports an idea floated by some local officials of having landlords apply a tenant’s security deposit to rent as needed, but that such a move would have to be approved at the state level.
“So many people are hand-to-mouth right now. Their income has been blown away. Federal help is on the way but that will take time. People need help right now,” de Blasio said during a news conference outside of the USNS Comfort hospital ship. “Applying the security deposit helps the renter pay the rent and it actually helps landlords, especially smaller landlords, because that money is in escrow right now, and the smaller landlords need money to get by as well.”
The mayor added that any such move would need to include steps to restore the depleted security deposit amount but suggested it could happen in installments.
To all the people who think that it is justifiable to allow government to trample your rights just because they have done it in the past, then I believe you need to re-think your logic. Just because Government did it in the past doesn't mean it is allowable now. Each time it is an egregious violation. So let me address those who think we fought a civil war over "property". We didn't. Thomas Jefferson was very clear that all men were created equally. However there was a difference of opinion regarding slavery based on economic realities of the each state and supported by their government. So some states took an opinion based on economics (does that sound familiar based on your logic?) and some states viewed Slavery as immoral based on the tenants of the Declaration of Independence. The founding Fathers were split but made a moral "compromise" based on economic reality. Sounds like today, huh? So that didn't work out so good. So let me address once again the flawed "logic" of "they nationalized the railroads during WWI." Well that didn't work out so good either. Congress had to backtrack and change laws to make sure that the federal government couldn't seize "corporate" not INDIVIDUAL (BIG, BIG difference which I will address soon). Today's modern railroad equivalent is the Airline industry (so I suggest you do a little research so you are familiar with how USDOT works and how it affect CORPORATE Airline property.) The CRAF (Civilian Reserve Air Fleet) is a voluntary arrangement where the airlines agree in advance to allow a portion of their CORPORATE PROPERTY to be called upon in an National Emergency. The guidelines are agreed to in advance so there is no need to "commandeer" because there is an emergency and the FED GOV needs it. So now, lets address today's civics lesson about personal property. There are 3 Sovereign entities in the US Constitution, however people are so ignorant today they don't understand. Those three entities are The People, the Federal Government, and State/Local Government. The founding fathers looked at these entities in this manner (imagine a pyramid with three points at its base) Those three points are State/Local/Federal government. Now look at the point at the top (or apogee) that point is THE PEOPLE. The people are a Sovereign in their own right (why do you think the Bill of Rights was written and enshrined as the first 10 amendments?) Again the founding fathers intended the pyramid to work in this manner. THE PEOPLE (As Sovereign Individuals) were to be supported by the base of the pyramid (state/local/federal) government. We could exercise our rights freely without encumbrance of government. However, this pyramid arrangement has been perverted over the past 240 years into another arrangement. What do you get if you invert the pyramid? You get a wedge. Now Federal/State/Local government are on top and they are bearing down on us as individuals and are preventing us from enjoying our individual rights through oppressive taxation, over-bearing regulation, and unlimited power to persecute/prosecute through an unaccountable and compliant judicial branch. (the judicial branch is all to glad to accommodate because their funding comes from the legislative branch) Before you go off and think I am advocating anarchy I am not. What is needed is for balance to be reaffirmed between the 3 Sovereign entities. Federal/State/Local power needs to be re-balanced so it is in equity with THE PEOPLE. Now how do we do that. You need to research an Article V Constitutional Convention. However, let me return to the issue at hand. My personal property is protected by the Declaration of Independence and BOR. It can not be taken from me without due process of law. SO THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT. STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT CAN NEVER TAKE PROPERTY FROM INDIVIDUALS without recompense. You see they are violating a private contract between two individuals freely entered into. The government can't interject itself into this construct because they are violating not only the rights of the property owner but also the tenant (remember we as Landlord transferred our property rights to the tenant. (Bet you didn't think of that when you were trying to justify your logic on "property" and railroads) The "temporary emergency" never justifies the trampling of Constitutional rights, PERIOD.
By Amanda Fries on March 30, 2020 at 3:13 PM
NEW YORK CITY – Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo on Monday insisted that his executive order halting evictions is enough to protect tenants across New York state amid the coronavirus pandemic.
Affordable housing advocates have urged the state consider suspending rent payments for certain tenants due to the spread of COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, which has shuttered businesses and ground the economy to a near screeching halt. But Cuomo said during a news conference at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York City that his executive order to stop evictions for 60 days “solves all of the above.”
“I think our policy answers it,” he said. “It does not mean you won’t owe rent” at some point.
Cuomo previously issued an executive order that postpones mortgage payments for 90 days for individuals under financial distress, a move that will not effect credit ratings or result in any penalties.
A bill proposed by Senate Deputy Majority Leader Michael Gianaris, D-Queens, currently in the Senate’s Finance Committee would allow tenants experiencing financial hardship due to government restrictions in response to the coronavirus to make rent payments up to 30 percent of their current income or their contractual rent, whichever is less, per month for the duration of 90 days following the bill’s effective date. It would also absolve tenants from paying the remainder owed later on. The proposal also includes establishing a COVID-19 rental assistance fund.
Unemployment claims have surged across the country as businesses close and, at least temporarily, lay off workers to deal with the economic downturn facing the nation. The state Labor Department has seen initial unemployment insurance claims rise 520 percent over the past year, with more than 80,500 claims filed the week of March 21, the latest figures available.
As state lawmakers tackle the budget this week, Gianaris said he will push for his bill to be approved, but stressed the quickest response would be for Cuomo to issue an executive order.
“There are millions of tenants in this state and many of them live paycheck to paycheck. Because of the crisis, we’ve just denied them their paychecks,” Gianaris said. “Rather than have a massive housing crisis right around the corner when rents and mortgages aren’t getting paid, and the evictions and foreclosure follow from that by the thousands, it’s important to set up a procedure for that now and ensure quick recovery.”
Again this bill is ill advised at best. Notice how the individual landlord is being shafted but the banks are being protected. How about a 6 month moratorium on foreclosures? So you are going to deny the ability of the landlord to pay their mortgage but not the bank to foreclose on the property? These tenant will never pay the back rent due.
DO AWAY WITH RENT CONTROL AS WELL SO LANDLORDS CAN RAISE THEIR RENTS IN THE FUTURE TO MAKE UP FOR THIS GOVERNMENT IMPOSED RENT HOLIDAY WHEN THIS CRISIS IS OVER.
THAT IS THE ONLY FAIR THING TO DO.
Wow I feel for you LL's in NY. What a kick in the teeth. For the property taxes you're paying you'd think you'd get a little respect from the government but wow. How will a real estate recovery look like in NY? Who'd buy/stay there once they're free to sell & move their money.
This is INSIDIOUS
Here is the verbiage of the current NY State bill: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s8125
and, most offensively, HERE is the website of a movement to "CANCEL RENTS" https://www.housingjusticeforall.org/faq-what-to-do-on-april-1
Below is the letter we sent to NY state Governor Cuomo. plus MY State Senator, plus the Senator who drafted this bill, and all NYC Housing Depts and officials. Thoughts? Will you all Join Me? If you agree, please also reach out to your OWN Representatives, to send a similar letter: (Don't know who represents you? Google: "Who Represents Me .......... (Insert your State Here)"
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[ATTN : REPRESENTATIVE] - (Insert your Rep's name here)
My Wife and I are, literally, small-business Mom & Pop Property Managers. We rent out just 6 [INSERT YOUR NUMBER HERE] units, and just barely manage to pay the bills each month. We love our Tenants, and treat them with great respect.
But we have no illusions - The SECOND they feel empowered to not pay rent... whether they've been negatively impacted by Coronovirus or not, they will simply stop paying rent. This will bankrupt us!
Where is the
It's not fair that LANDLORDS - and ONLY Landlords - are made the culprits, and must shoulder ALL of Society's burdens... Each month, we have tremendous Contractual Obligations and payments to make - Grocery-Bills, Utilities, Mortgages, Plumbers, Electricians, Medical Insurance Premiums, Property-Insurance, Sewer-Water, Oil, Gas, Electricity, Property Taxes, Cable & Internet, Cell-Phone, Income-Taxes...
Are we now doing away with our entire system of Contract & Tort Law? Until you ALSO cancel ALL of the above also, please stop singling our small businesses out only.
Thank you,
[SIGN YOUR NAME HERE]
Again the Government is coming after the "evil speculators" but this time it is not the Oil Companies but Landlords.
@Tony T. I appreciate your frustration. There aren't many winners in this scenario. But, I have to disagree with your characterization of this NY law as theft. Investors who are in this position should seek a full understanding of the government's role in a situation like this. This is a humanitarian crisis that we are facing that carries real consequences that dwarf losing three months of rent. We're talking about the preservation of life and livelihood. This requires taking measures to provide relief in the short term and the long term. Long term, we have to think about what it will take to recover from this crisis. It won't be easy. Hence why loans provided to small businesses as per the small business legislation will be forgiven IF they retain their employees. Again, this measure focuses on recovery. I'm assuming rent forgiveness falls along the lines of the same logic.
I can see how those who've made sacrifices to build a business can feel slighted. You took the risks and now you want to be rewarded not penalized.
But lets put this into perspective.
1.) Those renters who you think are being given your property for nothing by the government - remember, those are the same people who are making it possible for you to realize your financial goals. You need them. Without them, you have no business.
2.) I think most investors don't know what it really means to "own" property in the United States. I put OWN in quotes because although it's a right to "own" private property, it is perceived ownership when it comes to the government. Ever heard of imminent domain? What about property taxes? Sure, your name is on the deed and you could own the property free and clear. But go an extended period without paying your property taxes and guess who will own your property then - the government.
Net/Net is - you're a property owner but only under the conditions set forward by the government.
No one likes losing money. It sucks. But you did find a way to become a property investor. There's so no reason to think that you wouldn't find a way to make up for the lost income.
What we are facing is affecting every aspect of our lives. Few are completely insulated from the impacts of COVID. The only thing that'll get us through this is for each of us to look for ways to be a part of the solution.
Be well and be safe!
Using the above logic, if they really cared about landlords then a portion of the Unemployment insurance each person receives would be automatically paid by the government to the landlord. But that isn't what is going on here is it?
@Peice Livingston regardless, my point is it's unlikely the state will flat out "forfeit" rent payments for tenants. If a forbearance is not implemented and we continue business as usual then what happens in the immediate term? The uncertainty of having no direction on the payments in the rental and mortgage market could potentially spill over and shock the equities market which is what the government is trying to avoid. Obviously, this is just kicking the can down the road we already know that.
I believe they are going to create a stimulus bill for landlords I don't know if it's going to be before the crash but they are going to create one
I just read about this. This is just a bill, with some advocates. Smarter government lawmakers know that you create additional problems by enacting such legislation. Such as expansion of opportunistic non payers (not everyone is out of work). And instability of the housing stock. Buildings could go into foreclosure. Large foreclosure waves proved costly to both cities and renters.
I've yet to see local governments discuss a freeze on real estate taxes.
@Joe Splitrock
What they are doing to landlords is much worse than forcing us to shut down. They are forcing us to remain open, with no compensation.
I can't close because eviction is off the table. My expenses have not changed.
And my income is gone.
My property taxes are on average 500 per month per unit.
I must maintain these non performing units.
I don't qualify for unemployment benefits even though my income has been stopped.
The solution is to borrow more,and hope to pay it back over time?
Sounds like slavery to me...
I must work for nothing...or a negative rate...
@Tony T.
I am no constitutional law scholar, but this at least appears to violate the takings clause of the fifth amendment. They should run this through legal first.
@Joe M.
A few mega corporations will own everything and we will be serfs..
That's how I believe it will play out
The underlying problem is Government is telling renters that they don't have to abide by contracts or they have no responsibility to save. This message is being telegraphed to the demographic that is most susceptible to communism/socialism.
The landlord is being made out to be the "boogeyman" in this scenario.
@Peice Livingston the government is not going to create a separate stimulus package exclusively for the assistance or bailout for Landlords, it's not going to happen. It's already been made clear Landlords can ask their lender for a temporary forbearance, or they can apply for an SBA loan (EIDL) if they need some sort of immediate economic relief from loss of rents -- this is already part of the $2T stimulus bill.