My Direct Mail Campaign Results Have Been Atrocious

My Direct Mail Campaign Results Have Been Atrocious

Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes

Hey There BPers,

Myself and my business partner have been spending a significant amount of time on our direct mail campaign and so far, our results have been subpar to say the least. We have sent out a total of 395 letters and received a whopping 5 responses. 1 was a prank call. 2 were of the "please remove me from your list" variety. Our one success was getting an appointment with a seller, so in reality we have had 1 good response out of 395 total letters. I'm hoping to get some insights and ideas/critiques for increasing our response rate. The details of our campaigns are below.

We have slowly been gathering addresses so our list is split up, one campaign is 149 people and the other is 246 people. We have sent the different groups different pieces to try and test what will get the best response.

The first group received a standard yellow letter stuffed inside of a handwritten (in blue sharpie) 6x9" manilla envelope (link). I also used some muscle car stamps instead of the regular American flag ones to hopefully make it seem more "friendly". Our response rate was 4 of 149. Here is a picture of the finished letter:

The second group of 246 received a different mailer altogether. We used an A6 invitation-style envelope that was handwritten in black ink. Instead of a yellow letter, we sent our message on standard white copy paper. This letter was placed in the mail on 10/19 and we've only received one phone call and one FB like from our efforts. Here is the copy:

"

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Dev HornPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y

Your list there is a good "core" list of houses for you guys to keep an eye on, but your list size is WAY to small to generate a meaningful flow of leads.

Buy a list of at least 1,000 ABSENTEE OWNERS and mail them postcards every month for AT LEAST 6 months.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2012 · 135 posts · 80 votes
    12y

    @Andrew Cordle Are you mailing the SAME list every week or are you mailing PIECES of the list every week.

    Example Mailing: 1000 mailers to the same 1000 people per week or mailing 250 mailers per week to a list of 1000 people.

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Foken:

    1. I've been approached in the past by people in my area to "coach" me. All they wanted in return was a piece of every single deal I generated from now until the end of time.
    2. The community at BP seems to abhor the idea of paying someone for knowledge that could be freely gained from this group, networking sessions or getting out there and taking action.
    3. This is no slight to Michael, you or anyone else, but I have yet to find someone on BP that understands the intricacies and nuances of my target market (the SF Bay Area) and does a large volume of outbound marketing. Tactics & strategies that seem to work well in the rest of the US fall flat here.

    I routinely hop on the phone and talk with a few people in my local area that have sent out a considerable amount of marketing and have picked their brains on what works versus what doesn't here in the Bay. I would never consider or call any of these people a "coach", but that doesn't mean they haven't been there to help or critique what I've been doing. As I mentioned above, I love talking real estate and marketing in particular with anyone and everyone, but I just have never felt compelled to hire a coach.

    Brandon, being down in a similar market in Los Angeles, I couldn't agree more.

  • Rental Property Investor · Liberty Hill, TX · Member since 2014 · 285 posts · 166 votes
    12y

    You are right about the SF area and mail outs . I get dozens of mail outs a year and to me nothing is funnier than a piece of white copy paper printed yellow with blue "printed" hand writing. It looks unprofessional and smacks of a newbie who doesn't know what he or she is doing but trying desperately.

    When I have called a few of these folks or emailed them they are not prepared and don't really know what to say. Again that is unprofessional. Don't waste your money sending this stuff out unless you are prepared with a script and know what you are going to say.

    That said mail outs require persistence and it can take quite awhile but can be very successful. I had a client an investor, who asked me to help him purchase 23 lots in a given "old" subdivision. We got the addresses and sent out our first letters "white paper and very professional looking" stating our desire to purchase their lot. We gave contact information and only got one response out of 23. Each month we sent out the letters, essentially the same each time and stated we wanted to pay cash for their lot and could close as soon as they were ready. After a few months the people realized we were serious and started calling and further realized we really meant cash and not some "scheme" as they put it. Some we spoke to 5 or 6 times before we actually got the sale.

    It took us two years to put this together from first to last. And we sent out hundreds of letters to the same people over that time but we got 21 of he 23 lots for our client. But what really made this work for us is that a few of these sellers had more than one property and we got an additional 20 transactions from the contacts; oh and referrals to their friends.

    So mail away but be prepared

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    12y

    Thanks Martin. Yeah Definitely be prepared. Any ideas for scripts beyond the typical questions: location, reason for sale etc?

  • Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 5 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Bob C.:
    "Finally, the main reason we are doing this is our thought process was that Listsource is available to any Tom, Dick or Harry out there whereas our list would be complied ourselves and target obviously distressed properties."

    True- and the houses you are mailing to are on that list... that Tom, Dick and Harry are using.

    Exactly what I thought. The money and time that you are using for driving around could be used for a larger direct mail campaign. I've found that when I did "Dig Leads", my success was extremely limited. I really don't think I've ever done a deal using this strategy. Yes, many people use Listsource to send letters. Yes, your prospective sellers receive many letters from many people about their home at any given time. But the point to focus on is getting your letter to that seller at the very time they have a need for your service. You'll have better luck with a larger campaign to absentee owners as was mentioned above. Once you buy that list, you can continue to drip letters on a continuing basis automatically. I'm certain you'll achieve much better results. Good Luck my Brother!

  • Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 56 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    I'm getting ready to launch another mail campaign, and was looking for tweaks to do to drive up that ever elusive response rate, and the thing I learned from this thread is to definitely be targeted on my mailing list for potential motivation upfront, and to combine multiple different strategies outside of mailers.

    I'm surprised how many people shy away from the phone, or door knocking.... sometimes your fastest deals will come from you putting your feet on your farm area and getting in peoples faces and ears....

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    Phone and door knocking can be effective, but hard to scale. It's so much quicker to drop 2000 letters, than dial 2000 numbers or knock on 2000 doors. I will say they can be great ways to learn.

  • Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 56 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    I agree @Jon Klaus, one of the things I've put a few hours aside during the week is to kinda dig through my niched list (down to the subdivision) and pull those rows out of my spreadsheet and put into my phone call and door knock list. 

    This way I may have a list of 2000, and I will have maybe 20 properties a week that I'm extremely interested in, and will make it my business to get a voice or belly to belly.

    The exchange between postcard, letter, phone call, and at last resort door knock + hanger will get people to either tell me to leave them alone, follow up later, or lets talk.

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    12y

    As @Martin Scherer pointed out, it's all in having consistent direct mail "campaigns". About 85% of your deals will come at or beyond the 5th mailing.  That's the secret to successful direct mail campaigns; keep mailing.

    Sharon

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Sharon Vornholt:

    As @Martin Scherer pointed out, it's all in having consistent direct mail "campaigns". About 85% of your deals will come at or beyond the 5th mailing.  That's the secret to successful direct mail campaigns; keep mailing.

    Sharon

     Agreed. And most of my direct mail deals have closed months after my first contact with the seller. 

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    12y

    Same here @Jon Klaus.  When it comes to probate it's not at all unusual to buy a property at around the 1 year mark.  Most people have quit mailing long before that time.

    Sharon

  • Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes
    12y

    @Sharon Vornholt is that number an "industry" statistic or based upon your own experiences with direct mail campaigns? I've hit the 4th touch on 2 campaigns (the others are too new for that many touches), so if I've only hit 15% of my deal making, these next few months will be incredibly busy for me!

    I like @William R. suggestion of cherry picking out a handful of leads to doorknock/call weekly. It's a lot easier to fish in a pond vs. the ocean.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Sharon Vornholt:

    Same here @Jon Klaus.  When it comes to probate it's not at all unusual to buy a property at around the 1 year mark.  Most people have quit mailing long before that time.

    Sharon

     I don't target probate, but my mail turned one up a little over a year ago. I first talked to the heir on the day of the funeral and finally closed a year later. 

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    12y

    Brandon-

    Those statistics were real estate specific. Even though they came out a few years back, they are still good.   It takes a while to build that "know, like and trust" factor with these folks. 

    I am not opposed to door knocking, but as @Jon Klaus pointed out it's just not a scalable business model.  It would be a much wiser use of your time to work on a lead generating website or even call folks on the phone.  I don't recommend that you ever call probates unless you have already spoken with them. 

    Sharon

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    This will probably not be a very popular post on a real estate forum, however my experience is that when things are stuck, thrashing about is not a good solution. Ask any lifeguard!

    I know several active, successful real estate investors who are, at this very moment, taking some time off to re-assess their situation, business models, marketing strategies, even their marketing mix and campaign calendars. 

    You can't solve a problem from the level of the problem. I believe Einstein said that. 

    About twenty years ago I changed my marketing philosophy and began focusing primarily on referral-based strategies. That's challenging because, in part, you can't turn on a dime and it takes some time to ramp up any business based on relationships. So, I gave up some short term money in return for long term benefits that pay off to this day. 

    When my marketing does not seem to be working as I intended or if I get a slew of crappy prospects, rather than peddle faster, I've learned the discipline of not being tempted to work on marginal deals or skinny deals with unmotivated principals. 

    You've got to have faith that your plan is solid. If you think it's not, why be so sure that hiring an expert wouldn't be the smartest thing possible? 

    Plan your work and work your plan, but don't plan the results.

  • Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 56 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    Not everyone has the type of budget required to get the 1000-4000 cards out the door ,especially starting up, and some of us need more deals, want to work a smaller market, or need to cut the expenses down somewhat.

    Some people have plenty of time on their hands and If your phone isn't ringing, you need to have a mix of prospecting and marketing to maximize your time usage. 

    If you have a small subdivision where if you can land a deal you know you will have a 10k-20k payday, its worth the small amount of time to allow people to put a face to the card or the website you have, and leave some information with them. You would be surprised how well people will receive you if you just introduce yourself, and I use that to lock out the other people marketing in my farm.

    Once you get a good process down, it is scalable if you are willing to put the time in to find a door to door salesman and train him on the process. I had a guy who was knocking out 100 doors a week before he went to Los Angeles to be able to work the higher price points. 

    Not attempting to hijack this wonderful thread though with a different strategy though, and I appreciate everything that has been shared.

  • Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes
    12y

    I'll agree completely that door knocking isn't the most scalable of business models, but I'll also agree with @William R. that it can make sense, especially if you do not have much money and/or just starting out. I was at a meetup one time and a few people were moaning about not being able to find any deals and one of the group's leaders chimed in to ask if they had gone knocked on any doors to try and find leads, which it turns out they hadn't. If deals aren't coming to you via relationships, mailings or your website then, if you are serious, you might as well go out there and find that deal.  Finally, I know a few agents in the area that get over half their listings from knocking on doors in their farm area. 

    Much like any marketing, one avenue won't do it for you, but if you have mailings going out, a website, develop relationships and knock on a few doors on the side, well, more power to you!

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    12y

    Brandon - Any strategy that you are using that is getting you deals now is a winner.  I applaud you for being a go getter.  :)

    Sharon

  • Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes
    12y

    Sharon - I wish I was brave enough to go knocking on doors, all the applause should go towards William above. My deals have come from mailers or a PPC campaign. For some reason, the prospect on knocking on a few (hundred) stranger's doors terrifies me. BUT, if I was starving for deals, I'd try as hard as I could to muster up the courage to knock on some doors. Thanks for chiming in!

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    Brandon, you could hire a door knocker to hand out fliers and give an elevator pitch/question.  Most people aren't cold callers and there is nothing wrong with that. A few are. Find one. 

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    12y

    For buying from a private party I have found that looking too sophisticated can really hurt the response rate.  I think sellers think they will get screwed when an investor send them a letter with a fancy website address, and a bunch of "fast talk".  I think they are more comfortable when they think they are in control.  I have sent letter after driving for dollars and had response rates of over 10% for hand written personalized letters about how I was thinking of buying a rental in the area and were wondering if they would be interested in selling.  The results may vary for different areas.

  • Investor / Rehabber · Fort smith, AR · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 30 votes
    12y

    One thing I like to do with my yellow letter response is to put them in a file and call back in a month or so to see how motivated they are now plus it looks like you are a serious home buyer.

    Plus buy mailing to an absentee list you know have a list of people who can buy houses from you. 

  • Real Estate Professional · Novi, MI · Member since 2012 · 73 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    @Brandon Foken 

    I use ClicktoMail for my postcard campaigns.  Its saved me quite a bit compared to some of the other services available.  It also allows more control on determining the drop dates.   I wouldn't use it for letters since the options in that category are limited and you can only use standard business window envelopes.

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    Hey guys,

    I would like to chime in if it's ok. I've been a direct response copywriter for going on 10 years and there are a few things that I have learned over the years that have consistently worked. No matter if I was working on a direct mail campaign, a email sequence, or building a multi-media  sales funnel it all came down to a few basic rules:

    Your headline on your postcard, door hanger or any other marketing piece is going to be THE #1 most important thing.  

    Your headline is "your ad for your ad" if that makes sense. If you want them to read your letter/postcard/marketing peice the headline must first "speak to them". Too many post cards/direct mail letters etc get thrown out is because most marketers do not understand the "A/B pile rule"

    The "A/B pile" is essentially when people stand in front of their trash can going through their mail trying to decide which pieces they will open/keep and which are getting tossed. "Pile A" is possibly the desk or a counter, and the "B pile" is the one that headed straight for the bin. 

    If you do not concisely focus on writing  a RESULT/ BENEFIT driven headline, your chances on them reading even the first sentence diminishes. Now, with that said, the entire point of writing a great headline is for your targeted reader to move on and read the rest of your ad!

    I think that a common mistake is being too generic. Not being upfront and straight to the point. Remember this, people are constantly being bombarded with different marketing and advertising messages, so to cut through the noise you MUST learn to differentiate yourself. QUICKLY. 

    When creating a marketing piece stick to these couple of points and you should see a pretty decent increase in the rate of response.

    1) Write a good headline (write 10 before picking one!)

    2) Use benefit driven bullet points (people want to know "Whats in it for me?)

    3) Give them a REASON to want to communicate with you. (Create a USP/unique selling proposition)

    4)ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, have a clear "Call To Action" Meaning be very clear on what specifically you want your reader to do next (I.E. visit your site ....or call a free 24 hour recorded message etc...you get the point)

    Essentially you want them to know that you are a smart business person who is able to add value to their lives.

    If you follow this very basic outline, you should  see an increase in your response rate.

    Hope this helps!

    -LG

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    A list of Absentee Owners as was mentioned before is essential. These are the owners of INVESTMENT properties and are more likely to sell, as opposed, to owners who actually occupy their residence.

    Alot of times you may get an "LLC" owner. If you see that on your list just make sure that the mailing address is different than the actual property address to assure you have reached the owner.

    A key advantage of mailing postcards as opposed to envelopes or letters is that most marketing material WILL get thrown out almost immediately. With postcards, they will still be exposed to your brand.

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