Fallen fence at LTR property: Who is responsible?

Houston, Texas
Managing Your Property
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Fallen fence at LTR property: Who is responsible?

Alain Chautard
Rancho Cordova, CA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 31 votes

Hi. I'm a remote investor owning a LTR property in Houston, TX, while being based out of California. I was contacted by my PM company a month ago about "70 feet of backyard fence that had fallen down".

I received a quote and was asked if I approved the repairs, but I was of course wondering about a few things:

1) Why would I have to pay for those repairs and not the neighbor sharing that fence? Shouldn't the cost be split? I certainly didn't break anything.

2) Does the HOA have a say in this?

3) Also, how did that fence fall down? Did someone break it? Was there a weather event? Should insurance policies be involved?

A month later, the PM company hasn't helped in any way. They couldn't reach out to the neighbor. The HOA doesn't have any rules on that matter.

I still don't see why I would have to pay 100% of the repairs without knowing more about what happened there, who's responsible, and what my options are.

So my question is: How would you handle it? What do you think I should be doing? Anyone else encountered a similar scenario before?

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Richard F.
Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
Aloha,

Since you state that your property is in an HOA, you MUST review your HOA Declaration and House Rules. The Declaration will tell you whose responsibility it is. The House rules may also address general responsibility for maintaining your property. Nothing else matters. And yes, I would HOPE your PM company knows the answer and can provide you a copy of the Declaration to confirm. If they do NOT know, fire them.
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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Alain Chautard:

    Hi. I'm a remote investor owning a LTR property in Houston, TX, while being based out of California. I was contacted by my PM company a month ago about "70 feet of backyard fence that had fallen down".

    I received a quote and was asked if I approved the repairs, but I was of course wondering about a few things:

    1) Why would I have to pay for those repairs and not the neighbor sharing that fence? Shouldn't the cost be split? I certainly didn't break anything.

    2) Does the HOA have a say in this?

    3) Also, how did that fence fall down? Did someone break it? Was there a weather event? Should insurance policies be involved?

    A month later, the PM company hasn't helped in any way. They couldn't reach out to the neighbor. The HOA doesn't have any rules on that matter.

    I still don't see why I would have to pay 100% of the repairs without knowing more about what happened there, who's responsible, and what my options are.

    So my question is: How would you handle it? What do you think I should be doing? Anyone else encountered a similar scenario before?

     Normally a fence is on only one persons property. There are too many complications (when things lke this happen) when the fence straddles the property line. 70 feet of fence failing sounds like a huge windstorm or vandelism or rot or someone ran into it with a ATV while they were doing donuts in the back yard.

    I'd hire someone from Lyft or fiverr.com to drive over and do a Facetime with you so you can get a feel of what is actually going on.

    2Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    How old was the fence and is it wood, metal, or what?  Often neighbours will split the costs, but not always.

    1Reply
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    4y

    If it’s “your fence” then I don’t see how you could be required to rebuild it. If it’s “their fence” they have to pay it. If it’s on the property line you both pay or the one that wants the fence pays for it if the other won’t and isn’t required to  

    I don’t think you said, but is this a $500 problem or a $5,000 problem. I would pay for it to go away if it was $500, I’d probably live without a fence if it was $5,000 unless you think you’re getting $200/mo or more extra rent for having one. I wouldn’t involve the insurance company unless it’s over $10,000. 

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  • Sergey A. Petrov
    Real Estate Consultant · Seattle, WA · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 784 votes
    4y

    As the owner you should know whether or not it is your fence, your neighbor's or the HOA's. Presumably your manager already did all that work and determined it would be best to replace (and that it is yours), obtained a proposal from a trusted provider and sent to you for approval because it exceeds their approving authority in the contract. You are making them chase their tails and do extra unnecessary work (likely without additional compensation). Sounds like you are either uncomfortable with the work (or don't want to spend the money?) or there is lack of trust in your manager. All that said, there is no excuse for their lack of an explanation or prompt response. Call your manager. A 5 minute call will cover the next 20 emails you'll exchange with them.

    Curious what the cost is. I have a $5k cap in my agreements and my managers know not to call me for anything below that. And know I’ll back up their decision for higher amounts without my express approval if needed. But I have a high level of trust and confidence in whoever I work with. The second the trust disappears I either “fix it” or switch providers. “Fixing it” works 90% of the time and most of my business relationships are well over a decade old 

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  • Eliott Elias
    Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Split the cost with your neighbor 

    0Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y

    Without knowing whose fence it is, there's no good way to answer the question. If it's on your property, then it's your fence, and if you aren't required to have a fence you can simply have it dismantled. It is almost guaranteed not to be a "shared" fence, as that is rarely the actual case because hardly ever do the support posts actually straddle the lot line. What usually happens is everyone considers it a "shared" fence because it's so close to the line that the neighbor just incorporates everything on his/her side into their sphere of influence - grass cutting, etc. 

    What I would do: assuming it's a decent neighborhood - likely if there's an HOA - I would fix the fence. My properties with fenced yards rent better and for more money than those without fences. 70 feet is not going to be covered by insurance because it's not going to be that expensive to fix.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    Do you need the fence? If not, take it down and leave it open. If the neighbor decides he wants it back, he'll either replace it himself or reach out to split the cost.

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  • Jason Amaya
    Houston, TX · Member since 2022 · 31 posts · 11 votes
    4y

    I build fences all the time. If the fence is shared between 2 neighbors those 2 are responsible. If you need a reliable GC I’d be happy to fix this for you. 

    1Reply
  • Richard F.
    Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    Aloha,

    Since you state that your property is in an HOA, you MUST review your HOA Declaration and House Rules. The Declaration will tell you whose responsibility it is. The House rules may also address general responsibility for maintaining your property. Nothing else matters. And yes, I would HOPE your PM company knows the answer and can provide you a copy of the Declaration to confirm. If they do NOT know, fire them.
    2Reply
  • Alain Chautard
    OP
    Rancho Cordova, CA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    Thanks for all your answers. Lots of good ideas there. To add some more context and answer some of the questions asked:

    1) The HOA doesn't seem to have any rules on that matter (at least according to my PM - they said that they asked the HOA and they don't have any rules for that)

    2) Splitting the cost is what I'm trying to do - but my PM is unable to reach out to the neighbor to do so.

    3) I had no idea that the fence was not "neutral" and that it belonged to either property, so I'm trying to figure that out next - who owns the fence.

    4) The cost of the repairs is $2,000. It's not massive but it's also not cheap, especially because I don't know what happened, and who knows if that fence is going to be down again in a near future? If someone put it down on purpose and went away with it, they could do it again.

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  • Alain Chautard
    OP
    Rancho Cordova, CA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 31 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Richard F.:

     And yes, I would HOPE your PM company knows the answer and can provide you a copy of the Declaration to confirm. If they do NOT know, fire them.

     All the PM company seems to do is ask me to approve the repairs so they can get forget about it and move on to something else. But they're not helping much. I have to to do their job at that point, or just pay the repairs and not care about anything.

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  • Richard F.
    Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    If you did not obtain your HOA docs when you purchased, you should get them now for reference. It is not uncommon for HOA Boards to act without proper authority and/or misinterpret their docs. For the PM to simply "ask" about responsibility is not sufficient, if neither of you have the documents to verify. I actually currently manage an HOA where prior Boards decided to replace all of the fencing, on all of the units, even though the Declaration clearly excluded "fences" from HOA responsibility. Now, 10 years later, owners are upset when we tell them they need to make repairs on their own and provide them chapter and verse from the Declaration.
    0Reply
  • Alain Chautard
    OP
    Rancho Cordova, CA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 31 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Richard F.:
    If you did not obtain your HOA docs when you purchased, you should get them now for reference. It is not uncommon for HOA Boards to act without proper authority and/or misinterpret their docs. 

    I checked the docs and they have nothing on fences. The HOA said they only care about it if the fence is visible from the street, which is not the case here, it's the backyard fence that fell down. Bummer.

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  • Alain Chautard
    OP
    Rancho Cordova, CA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 31 votes
    4y

    Here the latest communication from my PM: 

    The technician told me he couldn't tell where the line of property is, but he took some pictures and the way the fence is facing shows that it was installed by your neighbor, in this case that he owns the fence we still recommend you fixing it or replacing it, because it looks like it might fall apart and could be a hazard for your tenant.

    So... They say that I'm likely not responsible but I should still pay for the repairs. Well, if I do, I'd build my own fence but would probably need approval to remove theirs, which they don't seem inclined to do.

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