Old Cast Iron Pipes Broken

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

hi lining is not posible due to the pipe being broken. This is a 3-2 single family home with 1700 sq f. We have a pipe missing the bottom of it but water runs and another one that has roots and gets periodically clogged .The quote was for $42k for tunneling outside both bathroom and replace the 2 sections in question. I am getting other estimates. The question here is to go or not with the insurance and or adjustor

Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

I am curious too as this to me seems like a maintenance issue that you could not turn in to insurance. If a truck drove over your pipe and broke it I think they would cover but not for things that happen over time. Of course you may have read your policy already and see it includes this.

2 Reply

Jill F.

Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes

3y

I would be *really* surprised if insurance on a rental property would cover this type of maintenance issue. What would you be claiming as the reason for your loss? Have you read your policy?

Tim Willms

Homeowner · Sparta, WI · Member since 2023 · 4 posts · 1 vote

3y

I was talking to a home owner in La Crosse WI and they got a quote to get the main sewage pipe replaced out to the road at $18,000! Prices of Trades has sky rocketed. It is what it is. Do what you can to get the price down. Selling the property you will still have to give concessions for this know issue.

This decision really depends on how well you are doing with this property. Is it cash flowing well? Good tenants? How is the appreciation in the neighborhood? What kind of shape is the rest of the property?

Eliott Elias

Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes

3y

What is 10% of the purchase price of the house? File a claim and put it on your insurance.

Aaron Porter

Insurance Agent · all 50 states · Member since 2022 · 184 posts · 122 votes

3y

In most cases Insurance will not cover what it is that is broken, only the resulting damage.

In one house that I insure, recently the water softener blew apart due to a bad water pressure regulator, the insurance company decided that even though the regulator should have been the cause, almost all the damage came from the water softener coming apart and flooding the basement.

The insurance company paid for all the flooding damage but did not pay for the replacement water softener.

So there is the possibility that the insurance company will not pay for the replacement of the broken pipes.

a public adjuster is usually used when the home owner disagrees with the carrier provided adjuster. So calling in a public adjuster before you make start the claims process with your insurance company could be pointless.

Talk with your insurance agent as they are going to have access to your policy documents and should have contacts at Citizen who they can talk to regarding possible claims. If you agent is unable or unwilling to do this, I would say it is time to find a new agent.

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Hi everyone, thanks for all the messages. I filed a claim with the insurance company, I am waiting to hear from them but what I can gather from other people in my area that experienced the same issue is that they either cover up until X amount of the job or X amount of linear feet replacement or they cover what it needs to be broken and repaired in order to access the pipes..like floors/walls..etc but not the pipes and labor to change them. Some people make claims with the insurance or adjuster first, in both cases with some good or bad results. The house is great, has cash flow and great tenants (a family of 4) with a 42% appreciation since we got it in 2021 for $455k
The quote in question was for $42k and almost half of that was really not necessary. The quote is more like $20k but it does not take care of the whole issue. I am waiting on a real estimate in this regards. This numbers are not to be taken lightly and these plumbing companies are throwing ridiculous numbers like it is a brain transplant surgery. The job is also not to be taken lightly as rerouting pipes under a house with no crawl space is no joke specially with tenants on it. I'll post with updates. Thanks again.

Adam HofferPro Member

Rental Property Investor · La Crosse, WI · Member since 2016 · 132 posts · 42 votes

3y

@Agustin Conti, this was the topic we discussed at the La Crosse REIA last week! Old pipes in the city are a major problem for a lot of houses. Insurance almost never covers the cost of repair. I'd reach out to Levi and Josh at Level Sewer & Drain: https://levelseweranddrain.com, josh@levelseweranddrain.com. They have been by far the most affordable option in town for my properties. It will probably still be an expensive fix, but if there is a less expensive way to fix the break, they are the ones I would trust to find it. Best of luck!

2 Reply

Patricia Steiner

Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

3y

Warning...if you call Citizens, you have filed a claim - whether they fund it or not. Just your inquiry is deemed to be a claim. And, if it's a claim, there's a 99% chance you'll be cancelled and still have a 7 year claim filed history on the property. Citizens has too many clients and is dropping as many as they can. Unless it comes with a cost that is prohibitive, I recommend finding another way to proceed. The insurance crisis in Florida is just that so proceed with care. On a personal note, I replace old pipes on a "routine and regular basis." My advice to you: keep getting quotes. Go nuts with it - because it usually takes 5 or more to finally get one that is reasonable.

And, before you call Citizens, look at your policy and determine what percentage will be paid out. You most likely won't get full replacement so know what it is before risking so much.

Feel your pain...keep getting estimates!

4 Reply

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Thanks Patricia, I am very aware of the general insurance crisis in Florida particularly in the real state area. Based on all the information I had, I made the decision to file the claim with Citizens. I have 2 policies with them for many years and have paid (like everyone else) enormous and continuously growing amounts of money for insurance. I have to trust that they will cover (fingers crossed) and not cancel my policy after, we will only know after. Otherwise what is the point of having insurance other than it is required by law? I found the guys to do the repairs with no disruption to the tenants and without touching the inside of the house and with minimal breaking of floors outside at a very decent price replacing the whole system under 30k.

Joehn B.

Investor · Houston · Member since 2022 · 80 posts · 44 votes

3y

I don't think insurance will cover this.

No to lining.

Bite the bullet and replace it all. Cast iron becomes brittle and disintegrates, there is no patching or lining.

I did mine and paid a guy to tunnel. < 5k

Just make sure you understand where it is under the slab, run a camera through it it's not clear.

What is the copper pipe situation (water)? also under the slab? how far under?

TIP: Next time you buy a 1960+ property SCOPE the sewer and negotiate the replacement cost into the price if it's damaged.

Rod HanksBusiness Member

Insurance Agent · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 743 posts · 462 votes

3y

Sorry, but that won’t be covered by insurance. Keep getting estimates from reputable companies, the biggest cost is digging, the pvc is relatively cheap. Estimates will vary from company to company with the yellow page TV plumbing companies charging the most and just subbing out the digging. Ask other investors in your area for referrals. The sewer line age is the item I look for when inspecting a house to buy, because it can break the budget if it needs to be replaced.

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Drew SygitBusiness Member

Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes

3y

Why are they tunneling and not digging?

Logical Property Management4.9451 Reviews

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OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Quote from @Joehn B.:

I don't think insurance will cover this.

No to lining.

Bite the bullet and replace it all. Cast iron becomes brittle and disintegrates, there is no patching or lining.

I did mine and paid a guy to tunnel. < 5k

Just make sure you understand where it is under the slab, run a camera through it it's not clear.

What is the copper pipe situation (water)? also under the slab? how far under?

TIP: Next time you buy a 1960+ property SCOPE the sewer and negotiate the replacement cost into the price if it's damaged.

You always learn a lesson and I learned mine! this is the 2nd house pre-69 I get and when the inspection was done the inspector simply wrote "no direct access to the pipes..water flowing well" Go figure. I won't make the same mistake.

2 Reply

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Quote from @Drew Sygit:

Why are they tunneling and not digging?

the are tunneling under the house, that is why there is no need to break any floors inside. They are digging a whole in the patio from were they tunnel under the house and trench in the backyards towards the city sewer that runs back the alley.

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Quote from @Rod Hanks:

Sorry, but that won’t be covered by insurance. Keep getting estimates from reputable companies, the biggest cost is digging, the pvc is relatively cheap. Estimates will vary from company to company with the yellow page TV plumbing companies charging the most and just subbing out the digging. Ask other investors in your area for referrals. The sewer line age is the item I look for when inspecting a house to buy, because it can break the budget if it needs to be replaced.

Thanks for the advice, I already found the guys.

Joehn B.

Investor · Houston · Member since 2022 · 80 posts · 44 votes

3y

In my case the cast iron only went about 3 feet inside the perimeter of the foundation so it wasn't long of a tunnel to get it all out. Someone had already done the exterior in PVC to the street. We found this out by SCOPE.

David Machado

Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 4 votes

3y

@Agustin Conti

Hello

Do you know where the breaks are in the pipe? Inside or outside the foundation. Are you on a raised foundation with room to move,a slab or ??

I have paid ?300-$500 for a plumber to run a camera out to the main sewer line. It’s well worth the cost to see/know exactly what the issues are.

You can always run new plastic pipe under the house and tie in right before it goes underground if the problem is pipes under your subfloor.

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Quote from @David Machado:

@Agustin Conti

Hello

Do you know where the breaks are in the pipe? Inside or outside the foundation. Are you on a raised foundation with room to move,a slab or ??

I have paid ?300-$500 for a plumber to run a camera out to the main sewer line. It’s well worth the cost to see/know exactly what the issues are.

You can always run new plastic pipe under the house and tie in right before it goes underground if the problem is pipes under your subfloor.

Yes, I paid $500 for a camera inspection and I know exactly what and where the 2 issues are. I have the HD video with detailed audio comments from the guys who did it and I can review or use it with any company. AT this point I know who I am going to do it with and what. Thanks

Julie Johnson

Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @Agustin Conti:

Quote from @Rod Hanks:

Sorry, but that won’t be covered by insurance. Keep getting estimates from reputable companies, the biggest cost is digging, the pvc is relatively cheap. Estimates will vary from company to company with the yellow page TV plumbing companies charging the most and just subbing out the digging. Ask other investors in your area for referrals. The sewer line age is the item I look for when inspecting a house to buy, because it can break the budget if it needs to be replaced.

Thanks for the advice, I already found the guys.

Hi Agustin, my husband and I own a rental property in Fort Lauderdale and we recently found out we need to do exactly the same thing. We did receive 2 quotes from reputable companies that our neighbors have used and the city of Sea Ranch Lakes and Lauderdale By The Sea use as well. Do you mind my asking what company you decided to go with? We would like to get another estimate as our 2 estimates are hugely different. 2 different approaches but both under the duplex and not thru the floors. Prices range from $32k - $50k. Appreciate any information you care to share. Thanks

OP

Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 25 votes

3y

Quote from @Julie Johnson:

Quote from @Agustin Conti:

Quote from @Rod Hanks:

Sorry, but that won’t be covered by insurance. Keep getting estimates from reputable companies, the biggest cost is digging, the pvc is relatively cheap. Estimates will vary from company to company with the yellow page TV plumbing companies charging the most and just subbing out the digging. Ask other investors in your area for referrals. The sewer line age is the item I look for when inspecting a house to buy, because it can break the budget if it needs to be replaced.

Thanks for the advice, I already found the guys.

Hi Agustin, my husband and I own a rental property in Fort Lauderdale and we recently found out we need to do exactly the same thing. We did receive 2 quotes from reputable companies that our neighbors have used and the city of Sea Ranch Lakes and Lauderdale By The Sea use as well. Do you mind my asking what company you decided to go with? We would like to get another estimate as our 2 estimates are hugely different. 2 different approaches but both under the duplex and not thru the floors. Prices range from $32k - $50k. Appreciate any information you care to share. Thanks

HI Julie, I am using A1 Underground & Plumbing Services LLC, I will be able to give a recommendation after the job is done but so far have been great to deal with. Fast and easy communication, clear and concise proposal with minimal interruptions and no interior work! (only a hole will be made outside in the patio) Common sense in every aspect of it and with a reasonable price under $29k (excluding city permit). Miles ahead in every department from any of the other ones. As expected they are very busy and can only do it at the end of April. But once in contract with them they can come out and snake (or clean) clogged toilets or lines as needed for free until the job starts.

Tim JacobPro Member

Real Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2016 · 520 posts · 379 votes

3y

If you are outside the building footprint it can be covered by homesite or an equivalent insurance. I used it for water but can also be used for sewer. I think there is a maximum they will cover so if your line is really deep and needs trench box or another form of SOE you could still get slammed pretty hard. Sounds like its within the footprint. I would really recommend the plastic liner. Hopefully it doesn't get too crazy.

Julie Johnson

Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @Agustin Conti:

Quote from @Julie Johnson:

Quote from @Agustin Conti:

Quote from @Rod Hanks:

Sorry, but that won’t be covered by insurance. Keep getting estimates from reputable companies, the biggest cost is digging, the pvc is relatively cheap. Estimates will vary from company to company with the yellow page TV plumbing companies charging the most and just subbing out the digging. Ask other investors in your area for referrals. The sewer line age is the item I look for when inspecting a house to buy, because it can break the budget if it needs to be replaced.

Thanks for the advice, I already found the guys.

Hi Agustin, my husband and I own a rental property in Fort Lauderdale and we recently found out we need to do exactly the same thing. We did receive 2 quotes from reputable companies that our neighbors have used and the city of Sea Ranch Lakes and Lauderdale By The Sea use as well. Do you mind my asking what company you decided to go with? We would like to get another estimate as our 2 estimates are hugely different. 2 different approaches but both under the duplex and not thru the floors. Prices range from $32k - $50k. Appreciate any information you care to share. Thanks

HI Julie, I am using A1 Underground & Plumbing Services LLC, I will be able to give a recommendation after the job is done but so far have been great to deal with. Fast and easy communication, clear and concise proposal with minimal interruptions and no interior work! (only a hole will be made outside in the patio) Common sense in every aspect of it and with a reasonable price under $29k (excluding city permit). Miles ahead in every department from any of the other ones. As expected they are very busy and can only do it at the end of April. But once in contract with them they can come out and snake (or clean) clogged toilets or lines as needed for free until the job starts.

Hi Agustin, we just signed our contract with A1 as well; before you advised who you had decided to go with. It will be pricey but we can not do the lining and that is only guaranteed for 10 years and is almost the same price. If you are going to do it, I believe in doing it once the right way. Thank you for your information and here is to hoping things go smoothly and quickly!