Sell me on the benefits of Turnkey Properties

Sell me on the benefits of Turnkey Properties

Shiloh LundahlPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

I have never purchased a turnkey property before so I am not familiar with the process. So correct me where I am wrong. 

A turnkey operator finds or builds a property. Then after the rehab or building is done, they put a tenant into the property and they sell the property at market value to an investor. The investor either gets a loan or buys the property in cash. The turnkey company then manages the property for the investor owner until the property gets sold eventually. 

I'd love to know some average numbers for a turn key. From what I gather, the turkey operator will by a property at around 100k that needs 50k to get it fixed up. Then the turnkey operator sells the property at the market value to the investor who pays market price of around $200,000. So the turnkey company has made 50k on their flip without needing to pay realtor fees of 6%. 

So the owner is not stepping into any equity but instead his or her net worth is lower based on the fact that they had to pay closing costs on the transaction.  

The turnkey company then manages the property and gets paid the management fee and all the extra fees associated with the management such as turn overs and lease ups, repairs, and sometimes sales costs. 

Correct me where I am wrong with my perception and walk me through the benefits of going with a turnkey company, where the profit is for the investor, and if the benefits outweigh the costs. 

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Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

I have never purchased a turnkey property before so I am not familiar with the process. So correct me where I am wrong. 

A turnkey operator finds or builds a property. Then after the rehab or building is done, they put a tenant into the property and they sell the property at market value to an investor. The investor either gets a loan or buys the property in cash. The turnkey company then manages the property for the investor owner until the property gets sold eventually. 

I'd love to know some average numbers for a turn key. From what I gather, the turkey operator will by a property at around 100k that needs 50k to get it fixed up. Then the turnkey operator sells the property at the market value to the investor who pays market price of around $200,000. So the turnkey company has made 50k on their flip without needing to pay realtor fees of 6%. 

So the owner is not stepping into any equity but instead his or her net worth is lower based on the fact that they had to pay closing costs on the transaction.  

The turnkey company then manages the property and gets paid the management fee and all the extra fees associated with the management such as turn overs and lease ups, repairs, and sometimes sales costs. 

Correct me where I am wrong with my perception and walk me through the benefits of going with a turnkey company, where the profit is for the investor, and if the benefits outweigh the costs. 

 lol, show me the Turnkey company who's scoring a $50k profit off the rip on their deals. The margins ain't like that bro.

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  • Property Manager · Lombard, IL · Member since 2013 · 100 posts · 82 votes
    1y

    You got it covered in a nutshell.   The operator is taking all of the risk in purchasing and rehabbing the property, handing it off to you fully rented and hopefully in good condition where there are little to no maintenance expenses at the beginning.  You are giving up most of the equity for taking no risk and doing no work. 

    You are hopefully getting good cash flow, appreciation, mortgage paydown and tax benefits. If you are new, working a full time W2 and want to get started in REI then these can be a good way to do it. You need to vet the operator, but also do your own due diligence. If they are not good at property and asset management your "investment" could become a money pit with vacancy and repair expenses.

    Make sure the ARV, rental rates, taxes, etc are what they are claimed to be. I would also advise doing your own inspection of the property to make sure that everything that they say is being done is actually completed and to code and that there shouldn't be any surprise maintenance costs at the beginning.

    Numbers are very specific to the market you are looking at.  

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    I have never purchased a turnkey property before so I am not familiar with the process. So correct me where I am wrong. 

    A turnkey operator finds or builds a property. Then after the rehab or building is done, they put a tenant into the property and they sell the property at market value to an investor. The investor either gets a loan or buys the property in cash. The turnkey company then manages the property for the investor owner until the property gets sold eventually. 

    I'd love to know some average numbers for a turn key. From what I gather, the turkey operator will by a property at around 100k that needs 50k to get it fixed up. Then the turnkey operator sells the property at the market value to the investor who pays market price of around $200,000. So the turnkey company has made 50k on their flip without needing to pay realtor fees of 6%. 

    So the owner is not stepping into any equity but instead his or her net worth is lower based on the fact that they had to pay closing costs on the transaction.  

    The turnkey company then manages the property and gets paid the management fee and all the extra fees associated with the management such as turn overs and lease ups, repairs, and sometimes sales costs. 

    Correct me where I am wrong with my perception and walk me through the benefits of going with a turnkey company, where the profit is for the investor, and if the benefits outweigh the costs. 

     lol, show me the Turnkey company who's scoring a $50k profit off the rip on their deals. The margins ain't like that bro.

  • Real Estate Agent · Lakeland, TN · Member since 2015 · 214 posts · 105 votes
    1y

    @Shiloh Lundahl, as @Keith Jablonowski said you you pretty much have it covered. There are some other things to consider that would not be considered by an investor that is only looking at purchase price and sales price. There is the risk carried by the turnkey company during the renovation and being able to find quality residents for the home and ultimately the investor and at a rental rate that makes sense. If any of these do not pan out, the turnkey company feels the weight of assuming that risk. 

    In addition to risk, there is also salary cost the teams leading the renovations, leasing, sales, etc, and if applicable an assignment fee to a wholesaler that you will also not find in any public records. So yes, there is margin, there has to be or it would be more of a "going out of business" model than a "building a business" model. 

    In the end a solid turnkey company will still be able to provide a performing asset to their investors. Finding the value in today's market is the challenge that is differentiating these companies. 

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @James Wise Educate me. What are the average margins like in areas you are familiar with. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @James Wise Educate me. What are the average margins like in areas you are familiar with. 


     Most turnkey guys are doing great if they're hitting an average rip of $10k-$20k. With the market where it's at right now, margins getting squeezed further than that these days.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    @Shiloh Lundahl,

    This is an interesting question after your post yesterday.  Our company started precisely the way you stated your idea came to you.  From someone asking for help based on the success they saw us having.  They had $ but did not have the knowledge or the time.  Neither your idea nor turnkey real estate is bad.  They both are reactions to opportunity.  Both may be viable to a particular investor group and have no value at all to another.  I'll answer as best as I can.

    First, the word "turnkey" does not have a meaning.  Today, companies with many structures use the word turnkey to describe their services.  You might use the word in the future to explain your idea.   

    To answer your question, I will use your description as it most closely relates to my definition of what an actual turnkey real estate transaction should be.  Again, that is my opinion, and I'm sure others will claim they are truly turnkey.

    A turnkey operator finds or builds a property. Then after the rehab or building is done, they put a tenant into the property and they sell the property at market value to an investor. The investor either gets a loan or buys the property in cash. The turnkey company then manages the property for the investor owner until the property gets sold eventually.

    There are very few fully integrated turnkey operators in the business today. Most companies marketing with the word outsource some of the pieces you described above - in particular, the management on the back end. Most investors who take this route are not short-term investors and do not enter the investment with a timeline for sale. So, an IRR rarely gets taken into account during due diligence, although like most real estate transactions, the exit has the highest potential for return.

    I'd love to know some average numbers for a turn key. From what I gather, the turkey operator will by a property at around 100k that needs 50k to get it fixed up. Then the turnkey operator sells the property at the market value to the investor who pays market price of around $200,000. So the turnkey company has made 50k on their flip without needing to pay realtor fees of 6%.

    These are just example numbers that are very assumptive, but I understand the basis of the question. The answer is I have no idea about other companies. I'll give you the basics at REI. We are in 11 unique markets, and each has slightly different numbers. Roll them all up and the averages are:

    purchase $154k
    renovate $47K
    sell $232k

    These are gross numbers, not including closing costs, borrowing costs, holding costs, licensing and permit costs, G&A, overhead, commissions, forward rate buy-downs, and lease-up fees, to name a few of the many expenses incurred.  We are lucky to earn a 9-10% cap on our outlay.

    The turnkey company then manages the property and gets paid the management fee and all the extra fees associated with the management, such as turnovers and lease-ups, repairs, and sometimes sales costs.

    At REI Nation, the owner can hire our management company. That is by design, but we are fully integrated. The owner has purchased a property like any other real estate transaction, and they own the physical property. They can now make the best decision for them on a management company to hire. If they hire our management company, Premier Property Management, we have a very traditional fee structure similar to other management companies. I wouldn't call any of the fees you listed above as extra. I would use the word necessary based on the value we deliver.

    Correct me where I am wrong with my perception and walk me through the benefits of going with a turnkey company, where the profit is for the investor, and if the benefits outweigh the costs.

    I'll give an over-arching view since I am only answering for my own company and don't want to use this as advertising.  For investors who lack knowledge and/or time, want to own physical real estate as part of their portfolio, and want to be as passive as possible on the real estate side of the investment, we've created a great route.  

    For REI, the unique value we bring is on the service side. We have a dedicated team whose purpose is to ensure that our passive investors never feel disconnected from their properties. We want to ensure we meet their expectations.

    This is still real estate. There are no magic pills that make the word "turnkey" mean something special. The reason to purchase a property through this process is the same today as when we started two decades ago. Holding a piece of real estate over time that a resident provides every dollar you will need to cover the holding, maintenance costs, and financing costs, all while it goes up in value, is the same with a property marketed "turnkey" as it is with any piece of real estate. If you have a high level of faith in the company you are working with, then time will do what it is supposed to do and increase your IRR.

    The real value gets added by who you are working with.  I tell investors to ask the question, "How".  How will the company I am working with deliver my expected return?  How are they going to hold down my maintenance costs?  How are they going to prevent move-outs and extend my occupancy?  How will they grow the revenue I earn each year on this property?  

    So, the value is that an investor has zero financial risk on the front end and spends zero time creating the opportunity.  Their risk is the same as any other real estate purchase.  The difference is that with us, the unknowns are answered.  They can now decide based on the return they will earn against their dollar using little of their time and their trust in our company's ability to deliver it.

  • Property Manager · Northern Virginia & DC · Member since 2020 · 157 posts · 69 votes
    1y

    @Chris Clothier well said

    the answer is almost always "it depends"

    is your LP an opportunist or not, what's their risk profile, what returns are they looking for?

    there is no such thing as a one size fits all

    some may want to venture/partner with you in the acquisition, rehab, stabilization, and sale/refi and for this should see higher returns.

    others might want nothing to do with you but buying and 100% owning the "turnkey" investment based on their DD and underwriting.

    As an LP my thesis will be different from other LPs. There is no shortage of private equity offerings, and the aforementioned vehicles. I would underwrite both options, I would look at commercial syndications, etc. but most of all DD on the GP.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Wise:
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    I have never purchased a turnkey property before so I am not familiar with the process. So correct me where I am wrong. 

    A turnkey operator finds or builds a property. Then after the rehab or building is done, they put a tenant into the property and they sell the property at market value to an investor. The investor either gets a loan or buys the property in cash. The turnkey company then manages the property for the investor owner until the property gets sold eventually. 

    I'd love to know some average numbers for a turn key. From what I gather, the turkey operator will by a property at around 100k that needs 50k to get it fixed up. Then the turnkey operator sells the property at the market value to the investor who pays market price of around $200,000. So the turnkey company has made 50k on their flip without needing to pay realtor fees of 6%. 

    So the owner is not stepping into any equity but instead his or her net worth is lower based on the fact that they had to pay closing costs on the transaction.  

    The turnkey company then manages the property and gets paid the management fee and all the extra fees associated with the management such as turn overs and lease ups, repairs, and sometimes sales costs. 

    Correct me where I am wrong with my perception and walk me through the benefits of going with a turnkey company, where the profit is for the investor, and if the benefits outweigh the costs. 

     lol, show me the Turnkey company who's scoring a $50k profit off the rip on their deals. The margins ain't like that bro.


    YUP maybe sometimes but thats not normal from what I have seen over 4000 fundings of turn key. Keep in mind though along with rehab the turnkey operator is paying all the holding costs generally most if not all turnkey companies use HML loans for their inventory ( thats my Job) and paying taxs insurance utls etc.. so you need to add 10 to 15 on top of the all in for holding costs.. Where I see my clients do really well for their clients is the HVAC is brand new electrical panel new Roof brand new etc etc.. kind of like those that buy new construction for rentals those folks are paying full retail for those.. Some operators close upon tenant moving in .. some when they get CO myself I always try to get them to close before tenant makes the transaction much easier on the seller not having to interrupt the tenant and doing punch list much easier then put the tenant in.. in my mind if you are going to have an issue losing one month of rent because of this your being unrealistic for a long term hold your going to have vacancy at some point so why not the first month.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @Chris Clothier Great explanation. Thank you for taking the time to describe that to me. 

    So the big advantage of turn key is that you get a property that the property management company knows inside and out to eliminate negative surprises and you are getting a great management company and a good, qualified tenant from the start.  Would you say those are the main benefits?

    Also, if we could dive into it further, what does your average investor look like?  Professional, non-professional. Do they pay for the properties cash or do they get loans on them. And if they do get a loan, is it usually a 80% loan or lower? And if it is 80% are they cash flowing at the 230k value and a loan at 184k?

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1y

    @Shiloh Lundahl you should rename your post, "educate me for free on how to start a turnkey business".

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @Drew Sygit or better yet I should rename my other other post turn-key lease option.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @Chris Clothier Here is a competitive analysis of the differenced between the turnkey option and the lease option partnership that I referred to on the other post. Let me know if I did a fair analysis of the different models.

    The differences (with benefits and drawbacks) between a turnkey property and the lease option partnership that I do.

    Turnkey benefits

    • - The property including all major repairs and minor repairs have been completed. There are no surprises about the property.
    • - Management from the company that was involved in the rehab and knows the property will be managing the property for continuity and accountability.
    • - That management company has vetted possible tenants through their professional screening process and have selected the most qualified tenant for the property.
    • - The management company offers a hands-off approach including coordinating and managing repairs, getting the property rent ready after a move out and placing a tenant from a pool of applicants that may be waiting for a property to be ready. This may lessen vacancy time frames.
    • - The management company keeps track of finances and offers reports to the owners that are prepared for their accountants for tax filing.
    • - The owner has full ownership and control of the property and can make all decisions such as when to sell, or may decide to operate the property according to their own wishes even if those wishes are against the recommendations of the property management company. Of course it this becomes an issue for the property management company, they may chose to stop managing the property.
    • - The owners don't share any of the equity growth with the management company.

    Drawbacks of Turnkey properties

    • - They are usually purchased at market value (or sometimes just a little bit above) so that after paying closing costs the investor who purchased the turnkey investment has a lower net worth than before the purchase.
    • - There is no discount or created equity over and above the amount that is used as the down payment for the home.
    • - The management company charges a management fee of 10% - 15% which can be a little higher than average property management companies, but that cost may be offset by higher quality of services.
    • - The management company also charges for other services such as fee for coordinating maintenance and repairs, and turnover and releasing. Some companies may include in their contract that property management fees much be paid for the length of the agreement regardless of if the property is sold or removed from their management. Additionally, they may have in their contract that if the property is sold that their company will broker the sale through their own brokerage company.

    Lease Option Partnership Benefits

    • - The property is purchased at a discount which creates instant equity at the start of the investment. So the money partner increases their new worth quickly as the property forces equity usually through repairs. Thus the money partner may realize a higher profit within a 3-year period of time than they may get with other investments such as a 25% or higher return per year for the 3 year estimated length of the investment.
    • - The money partner doesn’t need to worry about the financing or keeping the debt in their name which may reduce risk for the money partner.
    • Long-term tenant to reduce turnover. This tenant has paid $3900 or more for the option to purchase the property within a 3-year timeframe so they are often a more invested tenant compared to the average tenant.
    • - The tenant may be granted permission to customize the property such as painting the property to their liking or upgrading flooring or customizing bathrooms which can create more feelings of a sense of ownership in taking care of the property.
    • - The rents are usually $100-$200 higher than the average rental amount which can create a higher monthly cashflow.
    • - Tenant takes care of most of the fixes and repairs for the property, except for large ticket items that should have been taken care of before the tenant occupied the property. This is usually rare, and the cost of these major repairs can be negotiated to be reimbursed at the sales closing when the option gets exercised.
    • - The exit is defined according to the option period.
    • - There are very low management costs since the property has long term tenants that take care of their own repairs. The only costs are hourly wages to an assistant to respond to the tenants if something comes up like a question about the online payment portal system or something else. This is not very common after the first month or so as the tenant buyer gets settled in. The only other cost is to the book-keeper who gets paid hourly to categorize a few transactions a month which takes less than an hour a month.

    Drawbacks of the lease option model.

    • - There is risk in that the rehab has not been completed and the financing has not been secured so there may be unforeseen issues with the home or lending process that may cost more than the estimated costs which can then reduce profits.
    • - The tenant buyer may decide to not exercise the option or may decide to terminate the lease early which may produce a profit less than the projected returns.
    • - The money partner is not the only owner of the company which owns the property and thus has limited decision making over the property. The money partner may decide that they want their money back early and may not be able to get their money out of the property until the tenant exercises the option or moves out and the property sells or according to the verbiage of the partnership and operating agreements.
    • - It may take longer to find a tenant buyer compared to a regular renter.

    Let me know if I have missed something.  That applies to any turnkey operators as well.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @Chris Clothier Here is a competitive analysis of the differenced between the turnkey option and the lease option partnership that I referred to on the other post. Let me know if I did a fair analysis of the different models.

    The differences (with benefits and drawbacks) between a turnkey property and the lease option partnership that I do.

    Turnkey benefits

    • - The property including all major repairs and minor repairs have been completed. There are no surprises about the property.
    • - Management from the company that was involved in the rehab and knows the property will be managing the property for continuity and accountability.
    • - That management company has vetted possible tenants through their professional screening process and have selected the most qualified tenant for the property.
    • - The management company offers a hands-off approach including coordinating and managing repairs, getting the property rent ready after a move out and placing a tenant from a pool of applicants that may be waiting for a property to be ready. This may lessen vacancy time frames.
    • - The management company keeps track of finances and offers reports to the owners that are prepared for their accountants for tax filing.
    • - The owner has full ownership and control of the property and can make all decisions such as when to sell, or may decide to operate the property according to their own wishes even if those wishes are against the recommendations of the property management company. Of course it this becomes an issue for the property management company, they may chose to stop managing the property.
    • - The owners don't share any of the equity growth with the management company.

    Drawbacks of Turnkey properties

    • - They are usually purchased at market value (or sometimes just a little bit above) so that after paying closing costs the investor who purchased the turnkey investment has a lower net worth than before the purchase.
    • - There is no discount or created equity over and above the amount that is used as the down payment for the home.
    • - The management company charges a management fee of 10% - 15% which can be a little higher than average property management companies, but that cost may be offset by higher quality of services.
    • - The management company also charges for other services such as fee for coordinating maintenance and repairs, and turnover and releasing. Some companies may include in their contract that property management fees much be paid for the length of the agreement regardless of if the property is sold or removed from their management. Additionally, they may have in their contract that if the property is sold that their company will broker the sale through their own brokerage company.

    Lease Option Partnership Benefits

    • - The property is purchased at a discount which creates instant equity at the start of the investment. So the money partner increases their new worth quickly as the property forces equity usually through repairs. Thus the money partner may realize a higher profit within a 3-year period of time than they may get with other investments such as a 25% or higher return per year for the 3 year estimated length of the investment.
    • - The money partner doesn’t need to worry about the financing or keeping the debt in their name which may reduce risk for the money partner.
    • Long-term tenant to reduce turnover. This tenant has paid $3900 or more for the option to purchase the property within a 3-year timeframe so they are often a more invested tenant compared to the average tenant.
    • - The tenant may be granted permission to customize the property such as painting the property to their liking or upgrading flooring or customizing bathrooms which can create more feelings of a sense of ownership in taking care of the property.
    • - The rents are usually $100-$200 higher than the average rental amount which can create a higher monthly cashflow.
    • - Tenant takes care of most of the fixes and repairs for the property, except for large ticket items that should have been taken care of before the tenant occupied the property. This is usually rare, and the cost of these major repairs can be negotiated to be reimbursed at the sales closing when the option gets exercised.
    • - The exit is defined according to the option period.
    • - There are very low management costs since the property has long term tenants that take care of their own repairs. The only costs are hourly wages to an assistant to respond to the tenants if something comes up like a question about the online payment portal system or something else. This is not very common after the first month or so as the tenant buyer gets settled in. The only other cost is to the book-keeper who gets paid hourly to categorize a few transactions a month which takes less than an hour a month.

    Drawbacks of the lease option model.

    • - There is risk in that the rehab has not been completed and the financing has not been secured so there may be unforeseen issues with the home or lending process that may cost more than the estimated costs which can then reduce profits.
    • - The tenant buyer may decide to not exercise the option or may decide to terminate the lease early which may produce a profit less than the projected returns.
    • - The money partner is not the only owner of the company which owns the property and thus has limited decision making over the property. The money partner may decide that they want their money back early and may not be able to get their money out of the property until the tenant exercises the option or moves out and the property sells or according to the verbiage of the partnership and operating agreements.
    • - It may take longer to find a tenant buyer compared to a regular renter.

    Let me know if I have missed something.  That applies to any turnkey operators as well.

    C'mon bro. You're leaving out the fact that lease option deals are some of the shadiest deals in the world. Lease option belongs in the gutter with Sub2 and Wholesaling. The idea of raising funds from new investors to get them involved in selling lease option houses to tenants does not pass the sniff test.

    In a nutshell, this is why lease option is so terrible. For lease option to make any sense the investors need to sell the property to the tenant buyer at an inflated price. The perceived benefit to the investor is they either get the inflated price, or if the deal goes "bad" and the tenant defaults they get to keep all the deposit money and rent and all that. Issue is, in these "bad" deals the government comes after the lease option seller for predatory lending practices and the eviction / foreclosure process is a nightmare. And on the off chance that it all goes "well" for the lease option seller and the tenant buyer actually buys it per the terms of the contract, the government comes after them for all of the predatory practices involved in selling overpriced properties to poor unsophisticated home buyers. It's a lose lose bro.

  • Specialist · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 549 posts · 53 votes
    1y

    You're definitely on the right track, and I love that you’re digging into the details before jumping into a turnkey investment! It can feel overwhelming at first, but let’s break it down simply.

    Yes, a turnkey operator finds, renovates (or builds), and places a tenant in a property before selling it to an investor at market value. The investor buys it—either with a loan or cash—and the turnkey company usually continues managing the property, handling rent collection, maintenance, and turnovers.

    Where Does the Investor Profit?

    I totally get why this might seem like you’re stepping into a deal with no built-in equity. And you’re right—turnkey properties are priced at market value, so there’s no instant equity like you’d get with a traditional fix-and-flip. But the value here isn’t in quick gains—it’s in long-term, passive income.

    Here’s what investors typically gain:
    ✅ Cash flow – Rent covers expenses and (ideally) leaves profit every month.
    ✅ Appreciation – Over time, the property value increases, adding to your wealth.
    ✅ Tax benefits – Depreciation, mortgage interest deductions, and write-offs help offset costs.
    ✅ Leverage – Financing lets you acquire assets without tying up all your capital.

    Is It Worth It?

    If you’re someone who wants a hands-off investment without the headaches of managing tenants, contractors, and repairs, turnkey investing can be a solid choice. However, if you want to maximize equity and control every step of the process, doing it yourself might be better.

    At the end of the day, it’s about what fits your goals and risk tolerance. If passive income and ease of management matter more than squeezing out every last dollar of equity, a turnkey property could be a great move for you.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @James Wise I'm not very familiar with the negative association that you or people you know have with lease options.

    In Arizona, there are a lot of reputable people who do lease options. I bought my own house on a lease option. I've helped dozens of tenants become home owners through lease options. All they have to do is follow the simple contract where everything is outlined. There is nothing hidden or shady in there. Then they work with a lender to get them ready to get the long term loan to buy the property.  I have videos on my channel of tenants who have exercised the lease option, showing gratitude for the opportunity that they had to do the lease option.

    Additionally, I work with a ton of great wholesalers and I know a bunch of Sub to people as well. I've bought a few properties sub to and I'm looking for one for my brother-in-law. 

    It seems like you are either taking bad experiences that you have had, or things you have heard, and you are blanketly applying it to entire strategies that have worked and been helpful to tons of people. 

    As I stated before, there are good operators and bad actors in all areas of real estate.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    @Shiloh Lundahl,

    At this point, the amount of time you're putting into this is making me laugh.  Perhaps you have this kind of time and energy to waste.  You have an idea that you want to promote.  You believe in it.  The more time you spend talking about other options and try to build up the negatives, the less time you are spending on what you fell are the positives of your own idea.

    If you believe that you are onto a great idea using L2P option contracts and forming partnerships where someone else provides 100% of the money while you provide 100% of the real estate-related functions, then start it up and make it work.  Best of luck to you.

    I think @Dominic M. did an amazing job, much better than me, on your post explaining how he would want to see a deal like the one you described.  I have no interest, and neither will a majority of investors.  But most investors have no interest in buying a turnkey property either, and we have figured out a way to deliver a helluva product and value to those that do.  You know how we do it?  We spend zero time comparing against other options.  

    You didn't read what I wrote above because you still want to compare your idea against something that doesn't exist. The word turnkey doesn't mean anything. If you are trying to compare your idea against REI Nation, you're over your skis. The two value propositions are not even close.

    @Bob Lachance - I love that you jumped on this post, especially touting the benefits of turnkey, because he's not interested in buying turnkey.  He is interested in showing why his partnership idea is better than turnkey.  It's a passive-aggressive approach, but hey, to each his own.

    Shiloh, you said you used to be in a mastermind with my brother, Kent.  He'd tell you you're wasting your time and energy if he were here right now.  His advice would mirror mine - to start your company, build your brand, add value to the forums here on BP if you're going to post, create the marketing for your idea, and then work your backside off to make it work.  Quit comparing it to other forms of investing because you are wasting your time and, at this point, creating a lot of unnecessary negative attention to your idea.  You're off to a bad start if you must create a poor perception of other options to make your concept look good.  

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @Chris Clothier I think you may have misjudged my intent and may have gotten the wrong idea from my post.

    You and I have been in real estate for a long time. You certainly longer than me. You have built a business system around your strategy. I have several small real estate businesses that own properties and just a few people who work for me. You are indisputably more skilled and knowledgeable at real estate than me. I do one thing well, you do many things well. But the one thing I do well in real estate, I do really well which is lease options. And when I run the numbers, when given the 2 options, the lease option model appears to make more money for the investor or money partner on a shorter term hold than the turnkey model.

    In no way is this analysis to be disrespectful or passive aggressive. I think I was having a hard time seeing the value of turnkey properties because of my personality style with regards to investing and wanting to trade up quickly.

    I sincerely wanted to understand what the mindset of someone who would want to invest in a turnkey property was. This is why I asked what the common or average investor who buys a turnkey property with you looks like.

    You have been super informative on this post and I don’t know of anyone more knowledgeable than you on this subject. So the fact that you responded with an answer so detailed was very much appreciated. Thank you for your contribution to the tread.

    There is obviously a value that a traditional turnkey property has. Otherwise the model wouldn’t exist. And through the answers provided, I think they helped me understand the value much better. Sometimes writing things out like I did above helps me in the thought process. So again, please don’t take anything that I wrote as some sort of dig or discrediting. I just appreciate the responses so far and hopefully the back and forth replies may be able to clarify and help investors who want to be more passive than active find investing opportunities that fit their personalities and their goals.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @James Wise I'm not very familiar with the negative association that you or people you know have with lease options.

    In Arizona, there are a lot of reputable people who do lease options. I bought my own house on a lease option. I've helped dozens of tenants become home owners through lease options. All they have to do is follow the simple contract where everything is outlined. There is nothing hidden or shady in there. Then they work with a lender to get them ready to get the long term loan to buy the property.  I have videos on my channel of tenants who have exercised the lease option, showing gratitude for the opportunity that they had to do the lease option.

    Additionally, I work with a ton of great wholesalers and I know a bunch of Sub to people as well. I've bought a few properties sub to and I'm looking for one for my brother-in-law. 

    It seems like you are either taking bad experiences that you have had, or things you have heard, and you are blanketly applying it to entire strategies that have worked and been helpful to tons of people. 

    As I stated before, there are good operators and bad actors in all areas of real estate.


    one of the reasons Jim is so against this is the LO model was ABUSED horribly in the Rust belt. Detroit espeically.. and in Texas to non english speakers
  • Murray, UT · Member since 2016 · 162 posts · 166 votes
    1y

    @Shiloh Lundahl

    I love this thread.  Turnkey can be a mixed bag, but still worth it for an investor that wants to be completely hands off.  I have held a few true turnkey (operator renovates, and manages) properties for enough time to get an idea on actual returns.  

    The two that I have held the longest (7 and 6 years old) if sold today would give a true IRR of 9% and 20% respectively. Now to all the people that want to criticize the 9% saying i should have just kept it in the stock market and i would have had the same results, not so fast.

    Now I can 1031 exchange into a property worth triple the value with no cap gains tax.  Increase the quality of renter.  Improve the location and appreciation potential.  And have a established relationship with a long distance provider.  Im in a good place now.

    Its certainly not a way to quit your W-2 in 1,5,10 years or even at all,  but a perfect way to build wealth through real estate with out putting much effort into at all. (other than keeping the books, and stressing when you hear they have to do another turnover)

  • Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @James Wise I'm not very familiar with the negative association that you or people you know have with lease options.

    In Arizona, there are a lot of reputable people who do lease options. I bought my own house on a lease option. I've helped dozens of tenants become home owners through lease options. All they have to do is follow the simple contract where everything is outlined. There is nothing hidden or shady in there. Then they work with a lender to get them ready to get the long term loan to buy the property.  I have videos on my channel of tenants who have exercised the lease option, showing gratitude for the opportunity that they had to do the lease option.

    Additionally, I work with a ton of great wholesalers and I know a bunch of Sub to people as well. I've bought a few properties sub to and I'm looking for one for my brother-in-law. 

    It seems like you are either taking bad experiences that you have had, or things you have heard, and you are blanketly applying it to entire strategies that have worked and been helpful to tons of people. 

    As I stated before, there are good operators and bad actors in all areas of real estate.


    one of the reasons Jim is so against this is the LO model was ABUSED horribly in the Rust belt. Detroit espeically.. and in Texas to non english speakers

     I read years ago that the state of TX did a study of LO deals, largely done in the Rio Grande Valley, and they found that not a single person ended up owning the property they got.the LO for. That was the impetus for a crackdown on the use of these.

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Eric James:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @James Wise I'm not very familiar with the negative association that you or people you know have with lease options.

    In Arizona, there are a lot of reputable people who do lease options. I bought my own house on a lease option. I've helped dozens of tenants become home owners through lease options. All they have to do is follow the simple contract where everything is outlined. There is nothing hidden or shady in there. Then they work with a lender to get them ready to get the long term loan to buy the property.  I have videos on my channel of tenants who have exercised the lease option, showing gratitude for the opportunity that they had to do the lease option.

    Additionally, I work with a ton of great wholesalers and I know a bunch of Sub to people as well. I've bought a few properties sub to and I'm looking for one for my brother-in-law. 

    It seems like you are either taking bad experiences that you have had, or things you have heard, and you are blanketly applying it to entire strategies that have worked and been helpful to tons of people. 

    As I stated before, there are good operators and bad actors in all areas of real estate.


    one of the reasons Jim is so against this is the LO model was ABUSED horribly in the Rust belt. Detroit espeically.. and in Texas to non english speakers

     I read years ago that the state of TX did a study of LO deals, largely done in the Rio Grande Valley, and they found that not a single person ended up owning the property they got.the LO for. That was the impetus for a crackdown on the use of these.

    That’s a real bummer….

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    1y

    @Shiloh Lundahl come on man, really..... 

    There is much better ways to sell your pitch than these fake azz posts, doing this roundabout passive aggressive marketing tactic. 

    It insults everyone's intelligence. 

    You can be better than this. 

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    @James Hamling I would say my other post more clearly promoted my real estate strategies. 

    This post was a sincere invitation to sell me on the benefits of the turkey strategy. Then I made a comparison between the average turnkey property with the average lease option strategy with a partner. 

    Comparisons between strategies have been posted probably hundreds of times on this website. I don't know why this comparison would be any different or would draw controversy compared to other comparisons. 

    Obviously, there are people that would prefer to buy turkey properties than other types of properties, otherwise turnkey companies wouldn't exist. And a few people who responded on this thread have outlined really well why some people would prefer a turnkey property over a different real estate investing strategy. So I have gotten my question answered pretty well. And I can better see the value that people find in turnkey properties. 

  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Shiloh Lundahl:

    I have never purchased a turnkey property before so I am not familiar with the process. So correct me where I am wrong. 

    A turnkey operator finds or builds a property. Then after the rehab or building is done, they put a tenant into the property and they sell the property at market value to an investor. The investor either gets a loan or buys the property in cash. The turnkey company then manages the property for the investor owner until the property gets sold eventually. 

    I'd love to know some average numbers for a turn key. From what I gather, the turkey operator will by a property at around 100k that needs 50k to get it fixed up. Then the turnkey operator sells the property at the market value to the investor who pays market price of around $200,000. So the turnkey company has made 50k on their flip without needing to pay realtor fees of 6%. 

    So the owner is not stepping into any equity but instead his or her net worth is lower based on the fact that they had to pay closing costs on the transaction.  

    The turnkey company then manages the property and gets paid the management fee and all the extra fees associated with the management such as turn overs and lease ups, repairs, and sometimes sales costs. 

    Correct me where I am wrong with my perception and walk me through the benefits of going with a turnkey company, where the profit is for the investor, and if the benefits outweigh the costs. 


     we are build to rent developers in columbus ohio. we a direct builders for investors around the country. we don't sell on the open market we build from scratch and it's very relationship based. it's very different but I would consider us turnkey. we build at 75% of market value with land and investors can refinance out and do it again and gain approx 100k equity each time. ours is an infill triplex in columbus ohio. that's just my 2 cents. turnkey is deal by deal 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @James Hamling:

    @Shiloh Lundahl come on man, really..... 

    There is much better ways to sell your pitch than these fake azz posts, doing this roundabout passive aggressive marketing tactic. 

    It insults everyone's intelligence. 

    You can be better than this. 


     Shiloh, you may be a good dude, but this ain't the path you wanna go down. Read the room man, you got more than enough feedback in this thread and that other one you made. Going down this path is gonna kamikaze your reputation.

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