we should definitely wait a little while longer before attempting any gov't agency involvement. I was involved in something a few years ago where the FTC froze the companies assets. That was in 2004 & none of us has seen a penny. The gov't is just not efficient when it comes to restition & you have to realize thier first priority will be to prove wrongdoing rather than make us investors whole or even part whole & until they are able to prove that, all of our money remains frozen in the hands of the gov't. GETTING US OUR $$ BACK IS SIMPLY NOT THIER FIRST CONCERN!!
So for those of you who feel the gov't will get you your money tommorrow, next week, next month or even next year.. believe me when I say, at this point giving Pinn another few days wont hurt.
Guys, government agencies are already involved in investigating Pinnacle:
- CA securities regulators; department of corporations
- US Securities Exchange Commission
- FBI (a couple offices)
- GA Secretary of State, Securities Division
- US Postal Inspector
- Atlanta Better Business Bureau
Please keep in mind that these are the GOOD guys. Pinnacle is the BAD guy (*Allegedly*).
Here is a some information that I found on Pinnacle
Pinnacle Development Partners, LLC created 5/30/2003
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?197312
Pinnacle Development Partners, LLC was created by First Capital and Asset Group, LLC
Pinnacle Consulting Partners Group, LLC created 9/18/2006
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?1227392
Brookwood Management & Music (owned by Gene O'Neal)
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?96295
TMS, How did you find out they are being investigated by all of these agencies, is it on the internet?
Ours was due September 28 & 29th no checks yet.
Now they are saying they are mailing out between the 9th - 16th. That is the statement from Cherise yesterday.
Processing time from two extra days is gone now to this.
We put a call in to Robert Hinderee today. We are waiting...
I strongly agree with the prevailing comments that we should wait to see if the checks that went out this week get received & the funds are good. Keep us posted, rdc!
It would be great if someone from Pinnacle would post a statement explaining the delays; but in any event I can't see how it would benefit any of us if we push the issue and cause their funds to get frozen.
I understand that plaintiffs in class-action lawsuits receive crumbs (years later) while the attorneys on both sides end up with the lion's share of recovered monies since they drag it out forever.
Though I'd love to understand the role of real estate in all of this I can't see how learning the location/status of these properties will aide anyone in getting their money back at this point. Real estate is not liquid. It can't be sold overnight. My rep told me that Mr. O'Neal set things up so that at any given time all investors could be paid off at the end of their cycles if necessary. Though I can't imagine how that would be possible I'll have to hope that's true as I'm not privy to the details of this complex business model.
These delays are causing me to lose sleep but I don't see any other option right now other than waiting it out. It's a bummer, but we all got in on this knowing that a transparent business model would not be shared with us; we're dreaming to think Mr. O'Neal is going to come on this Forum and start explaining everything to our satisfaction right now!
I'm on the west coast (no Wachovia banks) and other than flying half way across the country to obtain a cashier's check I'm wondering if any of you have any good suggestions for avoiding a painfully long holding period. I called Wachovia & asked if I could Overnight my check and have an east coast friend get the cashier's check; they said no. Any tips???
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I inadvertently deleted my private messages this week so if you were expecting a response, please try again.
Let’s think about the two scenarios of what is going on:
1. Pinnacle is a completely legal and in good standing; they are working hard to get you your money and it should come to you.
2. Pinnacle is a fraudulent company. In this case, where is your investment? Ponzi scheme or not, chances are good that either your investment is currently in the owner’s possession (not the company’s) or has been already completely paid out to investors earlier this year (this would be the Ponzi scheme part of it). Let me know if there is another scenario I left out. Either way, the point is that if Pinnacle is a fraud, there is probably no money at all in the company – none to pay investors and none for regulators to freeze. If regulators & agencies are doing their job, they will have frozen the assets of the *owner*, (remember, under this scenario, the company has no assets) and therefore, they are working to get the money from the fraudulent owner back into the proper hands. Who knows if the owner has spent is already or how much is actually there, but it is in your best interest for the regulators to get in there and find that money. If Pinnacle is fraudulent, they are not paying you your return + principle because it is not in Pinnacle – it is in another entity completely and the regulators have to go in there and find that entity for you. Pinnacle itself would have no money to give you.
I received a check today. It was a refferal check but none the less a good sign... :beer: :groovy:
Let's see how this thing plays out.
Are you an attorney, tms?
Obviously you believe Pinnacle is a fraud. In that case why would they bother to leave their doors open, placate investors and roll out a new program? They're presently incuring payroll, security and expensive leasing costs... Seems like everybody I've talked to agrees that scammers close up shop overnight once they get wind the Feds are looking in.
Also, some investors I've spoken with on the phone swear they've received tracking numbers which confirm their mail is "in the system". Why continue to pay investors if the intent is to keep the money?
I may be naive, but everyone I've ever dealt with at Pinnacle appears to be acting in Good Faith. As far as I can tell they're only guilty of falling behind right now. By next week it will likely be clear which way this is going but in the meantime we're all trying to remain hopeful.
In any case current investigations are not likely affected either way by this ongoing discussion - so our "decision" to act or not act is probably pointless. I look at the Forum as a support group and the best place to keep abreast of what's happening.
No, I am not an attorney, but it is part of my job to spot problems with companies.
A few pages back I had suggested that everyone concerned about Pinnacle read about 12DailyPro, a ponzi scheme that collapsed earlier this year. I mentioned that the steps that Pinnacle is taking eerily resemble the steps that 12DailyPro took – namely they placated investors for as long as possible while the owners of the business cash out as best they can and get out (unfortunately, I don’t know what ever happened to 12DailyPro after the investigations, other than it completely collapsed). I put a link in that post to help you read-up on 12DailyPro.
Why are they still answering phones? I never operated a ponzi scheme nor have I ever been involved in one, so it’s hard for me to know for sure. I have guesses, namely if they are still operating the ponzi scheme, they need your money to pay off other prior investors, so they’re going to be as gentle and nice as possible to keep your money within Pinnacle. I have doubts as to whether this ponzi scheme is still operating (I’m betting the all the new investors have dried up and the company and scheme is in the process of collapsing), so my next best guess is that Pinnacle simply does not have any money for you because it had previously paid it all to prior investors while enriching their own wallets (the only way that later investors would get their money + return back is if recent and future investors invest in Pinnacle, which is probably not happening right now). If they are fraudulent, Pinnacle needs to convey as best as possible the image that everything is business as usual (hence the new programs, excuses for late payments, appearances of good faith, etc).
Either way, Pinnacle has no cash to distribute and has to keep stalling. If they close shop and move out, then it’s too obvious that they are fraudulent (in come the feds!); if they man a couple phones and keep stalling, then they try can keep the lawsuits (and federal agencies) off as long as possible. But that seems to be coming to an end quickly…
I don’t know if the current Pinnacle employees are aware of any fraudulent activity (my guess is that they must have some clue, or they are actually a part of the ponzi scheme…). If they are in on the ponzi scheme, they clearly need to stall you as long as possible without raising any red flags. If they have no clue about any fraud within Pinnacle, then maybe they are just doing what they are told? I’m really not sure and that doesn’t make much sense to me.
Members of this forum seem to be concerned with only the facts. This post is not a fact, it is only conjecture based on the facts I know of Pinnacle and my experience.
And, like I said before, if you (the general "you", not targeted to a specific individual) believe in something hard enough, you'll convince yourself that it is true. In which case, I'm sorry that I've wasted your time.
If Pinnacle returns all of my money, I will team up with couple partners to join their new venture (Pinnacle Consulting Partners). Anyone likes to team up with me???
Pinnacle never broke any promises prior to this incident and I hope Oneal will continue to keep his promises. If Mr.Oneal pay every investors back thier principal, I will pay full respect to him and Robert Handree (although they are younger than me).
BTW, I am still waiting for my piece of pie which over due 4 days now, no one knows when will deliver to my front door. Hopefully, next week??? :cry:
Thanks REMY for reminding people about this. Please only post facts. You can speculate all you want, but be careful of printing libelous or slanderous material. We take any cases of this extremly seriously!
REF: http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and_slander/defamatory_statements.htm
Personal Injury - Libel And Slander - Written
Question 1 of 5
Can I sue someone who says or writes something defamatory about me?
In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was false. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material, you will not have a case. However, you may bring an defamatory action if the comments are so reprehensible and false that they effect your reputation in the community or cast aspersions on you.
http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and_slander/defamatory_statements.htm
Don't you mean Oct. 9-16?? My son is past due 1 return already. His first was due on Oct. 2. So far all he has heard is that the checks are being processed and they will be late by a few days. So he's 4 days late already and no call....no check. I have 2 returns due next week...... I haven't heard anything yet. I guess I would be in a better state of mind if my son would at least get his first return. For whatever reason Cherise has called me twice this week at times when I'm working. I've called her back 3 times and have always got her voicemail. I haven't spoken with her and I don't know why she has called me. I talked to Tamika in acct. today and she said it's bookkeeping that's responsible for actually mailing the checks. She transfered me to bookkeeping and I got somebody's voicemail. I couldn't understand the name. I asked for a call back but haven't gotten one. Their office closed at 6pm EST.
I just received an e-mail stating that someone he knows of a just received a bank wire this AM for $15,000. (It was a friend)
I know what you are all thinking, I thought they were stopping all wires. That is my question back to that gentlemen. Will see.
Not everyone that is an investor knows about this forum. So there may be news that we are not getting - or they are not posting.
Any real estate investors reading this that live in the Atlanta area? Please PM Me if you do! Thanks!
Monday is a mail holiday I believe?
For those invested in PDP (myself included):
I spoke with PDP's public relations representative (Sharice) today and she allayed some concerns I had about my return. Apparently, there was a backlog of returns running up to the date of the WSJ article, and that article only exacerbated things with the influx of calls they received from investors. Additionally, this occurred right around the time of the transition to Pinnacle Consulting. The bottom line, according to Sharice, is that Pinnacle is still remaining true to its investors - only that the returns will be delayed because this is also the first time where accounts have to be closed on a large scale.
My impression is that Pinnacle is making an effort to comfort investors who have doubts about the legitimacy of its business and is working to mail out the returns as soon as they can. I had a scheduled return near the end of September and was told that I should expect to receive it around the 20th of October. This was a safe estimate on Sharice's part because she said that she didn't want to give me an estimate that was too soon because she didn't want investors to be disappointed and upset if she was wrong. So I for one feel a little better after talking to her and will tell my lawyer to hold on any legal action against Pinnacle for now.
I hope this provides some useful information. I don't know why Pinnacle doesn't come out with another mass-mailing again to explain themselves, but Sharice seems committed to answering any questions that investors might have.