We still have not received for the 28th & 29th. We have left two messages now with Robert Hinderee. On on Friday and now one today.
No response. Does anyone else out there have him as a consultant and have you heard from him? If so what has he said?
Passivemoney, several posts earlier today, I wrote that Pinnacle is still working on checks from the end of Sept. This comes from Pinnacle in a conversation I had with them this morning. So your end of Sept. checks would probably be arriving this week. That's only My opinion. They said they were running 2 weeks late.
Wachovia service territory includes AL, CT, DE, FL, GA, MD, MS, NC, NJ, NY, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA and Washington D.C. If you are located in any other states, depositing a check will pose an issue - According to Wachovia bank, you will need to buy from them a scanner costing over $1500 in order to remore deposit a check in their bank. You can not open an account from internet However, you can open an account over phone by calling (800) 566-3862.
Opening an account still has merit - as it will immediately clear the check even though funds will not be made available to you for withdrawal intil hold expiires. At least funds will be in you account within 24 hrs rather then stuck in pinnacle account. Correct me if I am wrong.
GOOD NEWS!!
It took a WEEK to get here, but my check (due 9/26) finally arrived today! YOOHOO!! It was sent USPS Priority Mail; I had been given a tracking number which was worthless because nothing came up until AFTER it had been delivered to my mailbox! For a while there I was starting to wonder if it was even in the system at all.
I immediately called 1-800-WACHOVI, got transfered to their commercial accounts department and was able to verify on the spot that there were sufficient funds in Pinnacle's account. My Bank of America branch manager said I ought to be able to call back in a few days to verify that the check had been paid and the money was safely in my account. I won't have access to the funds until 10/19 but I'm just thankful to have the funds at all!
Due to my envelope obviously getting mis-routed I made a few nervous calls to Pinnacle lately. I wish to thank Cherice Jefferson who is one of the most impressive young ladies I have ever dealt with. She clearly takes this very seriously and her genuine concern and empathy convinced me that Pinnacle was on the up and up and that everything would turn out allright.
If Pinnacle was a scam we would know it by now so hang in there, guys. It's going to be okay.
TMS, let me take you to school on "Regulation D, Debt offering" In layman's term, it is a loan just like you get from a bank. It is different from an "Equity offering" They broke no rules there or any where else.
In addition, a friend of mine received his return today. It was due the 26 or 27th of Sept.
No, this is incorrect. Under Reg D you cannot offer the unregistered securities to the general public, as Pinnacle has done via their advertisements and offerings. If Pinnacle were to offer securities to the general public (as they have been), those securities would not fall under Reg D and Pinnacle and the securities would have to be registered under the Security Act of ’33 (they aren’t). Pinnacle does not have the authority from the government to do such an offering as it has been. Reg D applies to both equity and debt offerings and the treatment for both of them are the same. Not only that, but Pinnacle is not raising debt (or equity for that matter) for Pinnacle as a going concern – it is offering unregistered securities to the public, not under Reg D, as an unregistered firm, as investment vehicles in various properties, and Pinnacle is not authorized to do so by any federal or state agency.
And, as I said, as an issuer, you CANNOT promise a return on an investment. That is the basic rule 101 and they broke that rule too.
Pinnacle is in violation of securities laws. I told you already who is investigating them.
Hello all, I went to Wachovia today at 8:59am and stood in line for 10mins. when I finally got to the teller I had her call to verify the check to ensure it would clear. It took a while but the check did verify. I was then able to deposit the funds in my wachovia account with no holds or problems.
Here is what I have done in the past when I receive a check that is not written on a local bank. I take that check to my bank and have the teller call the other bank on the phone while I am present. Then after they verify that the funds are there and there is not a stop payment on my check number, I asked them to deposit my check and make my funds available that same day or the next business day. This has worked for me in the past but I can not guarantee that it will work at other banks, but it is worth a try.
Cashier checks can be reversed but that is the risk that some of us will have to take. I believe a banker friend of mine told me that cashier check could take up to 3 business days to fully clear opposed to 10 business days for regular checks.
With that being said. I am sure that pinnacle is aware of the severe penalties of mail fraud and writing bad checks; therefore, we should not panic. It appears as though checks are going out and people are being paid.
Congrats to jgr and bigman's friend for their payment I am excited for them. Also, my friend here in my hometown received his check in the mail as well today. Lets hope that this trend continues.
Passivemoney, my friend talked to Robert Hendree today on the phone for a brief moment. But can you please keep us posted on your payment. Also you may want to ask for Cherise the next time you call pinnacle as she seems to be the person that can give you the info you want about your payment as well.
Kerty9, you made a post about your friend that is due in the mid of Oct but pinnacle told them that they shouldn't expect their payment until the end of Nov, is this correct or did you mean the end of Oct? Please correct me if I am wrong, Im just trying to understand.
I encourage everyone to post when they get paid and when they hear of someone else being paid. We all love to hear the successful payment stories.
tms, when you enter into a partnership with other's and create a LLP or some other partnership entity to buy real estate are you required to register with the SEC?
Here is pinnacle's ad in the News Week:
http://www.newsweekshowcase.com/real-estate-ga/pinnacle-development.php
I agree, it is illegal to advertise a guaranteed return. And I can honestly say that this has been a good learning experience for a number of us, myself included.
No, I’m not an investor with Pinnacle, but I run a private investment partnership and previously worked heavily in due diligence with a private equity firm (which my job, among many, was to spot fraudulent people and companies).
To answer rdc’s question, if you mean “you” as the individual investing, then no, people do not register themselves with the SEC. To invest in unregistered securities (see Rule 144), you (as an individual) have to be “Accredited”, as defined by the SEC.
If you mean "you" as in the firm has to be registered in order to be an LLC or LP, then the answer is much too complex to cover in one post. Basically, the firm has the option to register with the SEC, but whatever they choose to do, they probably cannot offer LP or LLC interests to the general public, only to Accredited Investors, based on the fact that the securities that this LP or LLC is purchasing/selling are not registered securities. My partnership is not registered with the SEC (we don't deal with real estate), but I would be in a heap of trouble if I were to solicit investors from the general public. If I were to choose to register my firm with the SEC, my regulatory reporting requirements would increase but I would still be in a heap of trouble if I were to solicit investments from the general public (because no matter what, the securities I trade are still not registered with the SEC). The rules of registration of hedge funds and other LPs and LLCs are in a state of flux right now. In order to take investments from the general public, both my firm (via Form ADV) and the securities I deal with would have to be registered with a regulatory body.
This answer is very simplistic, so please don't take it as the final answer to your question. thanks.
I think you are a little off but, believe what you want to believe. I got 25% every time. Pinnacle has $140K of my cash. They have never let me down. When you give me 25%, I will listen to you.
DO YOUR THING PLAYBOY. MONEY TALKS & ******** WALKS. :violin:
If you mean "you" as in the firm has to be registered in order to be an LLC or LP, then the answer is much too complex to cover in one post. Basically, the firm has the option to register with the SEC, but whatever they choose to do, they probably cannot offer LP or LLC interests to the general public, only to Accredited Investors, based on the fact that the securities that this LP or LLC is purchasing/selling are not registered securities.
Thanks for the reply tms. I have a better understanding now. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that pinnacle had the option to either register with the SEC or not to register with the SEC? Also, are you saying that only accredited investors can create partnerships and/or invest in real estate? Please correct me if Im wrong as I am open to receiving new information on this topic.
It is to my understanding that when you form a legit LLP or LLC that the members and managers run the corporation based upon their agreement that is on file. Therefore, when the LLP or LLC purchases a property the property is owned by the company and the assigned manager can sign on behalf of the company. Furthermore, when profits come in, it flows through the company and then is disbursed to the members as agreed. Like I said earlier, this is just my understanding and I am not an expert.
Please feel free to email or pm me.
Why are non investors even on this blog? We're trying to support each other through this. We don't want to hear all the negative comments from people that have nothing at risk, nothing to lose. It reminds me of ambulance chasers.......go bye bye.
Ha, this is pretty funny; I can’t believe I’ve fallen into an argument with people over the internet... I can only assume you are all adults too, which makes it even funnier that you would actually act with this maturity and professionalism.
I registered with this forum for the simple reason that I saw people who were thinking about investing in Pinnacle and I saw them as a fraud and felt it necessary to warn those people.
From the looks of it, Pinnacle should either count themselves very lucky to have you as investors, or they should be cursing themselves. I would *never* want 95% of the members here invested in anything that I am a manager of.
I’m going to cut it off here and let you guys continue your support group uninterrupted and without any insight in to the truth.
If anyone is interested in learning more about the legal aspects of private partnerships with respect to Pinnacle, I’d suggest we take it to a more private venue. I have no interest in selling anything.
TMS
LLC and partnerships are legit way of doing real estate business. You are confused between investors, shareholders and partners. We are talking partnership here. Partners can be offered fixed percent share based on their capital contribution - nothing illigal about that. A good lawyer can easily blow away any allegation of illigality or violations. I have least amount of worries about legality of pinnacle operations, My main worries stem from it being a pseudo-ponzai scheme not being able to pay up last of its partners. And since pinnacle has begun to pay up, it is a promising sign.
You seem to have an agenda against pinnacle - probably to harvest your own business out of misfortunes of pinnacle and investors like us - but that would not earn you any goodwill from us. We are the investors and protection of us should be top priority - pinnacle is trying to make it right by shutting its program and returning the money.
I'm not a lawyer and therefore feel that I am not qualified to give a legal opinion but if you want more information about what everyone was talking about I have included a couple of links. It’s just FYI. You can decide for yourself.
Accredited Investors
http://www.sec.gov/answers/accred.htm
Regulation D Offerings
http://www.sec.gov/answers/regd.htm
Rule 504 of Regulation D
http://www.sec.gov/answers/rule504.htm
Rule 505 of Regulation D
http://www.sec.gov/answers/rule505.htm
Rule 506 of Regulation D
http://www.sec.gov/answers/rule506.htm
I certainly believe that this forum is more of a support group for Pinnacle investors. This will be a focal point to get connected and abreast each other with what is going on. Any legal concern should be addressed separately, as there is no cause for any legal action at this time.
I will update as well once I receive my return which is due on Oct 23.
I really hope everything turns out to the best. Our patience will hopefully pay off.
I'm actually confused at why everyone is being so tough on TMS. He's actually telling you the facts from a very objective point of view. And in his posts, I don't see him trying to sell or profit in any way from the current Pinnacle investors.
I've read some investment books and I believe an "Accredited" investor was created to protect unsuspecting investors like some of us in this forum. Everyday there are tons of complex investments that require lots of analyzing and huge sums of money people can not afford to lose (life savings) and so to protect less knowledgable investors who are investing with money they "can't afford to lose", the make it such that you must be "Accredited" first before even having the ability/option to take part in certain investments. At least this is the gist of it from reading all those books so you can correct me if I'm wrong.
I also understand how Remy and some of the other investors on this forum only want posts that shed positive light or support since just posting about the negatives of the situation doesn't really add any value and demoralizes current investors.
At the same time, this original thread was not meant to be a "support" thread. The original thread was if anyone knew anything about Pinnacle and the absurd returns they were promising. I am not an investor w/ Pinnacle so maybe you will ignore everything I have to say but I was reading this thread to find the pros and cons before investing. Literally the day I was planning to send in the check with a friend, the bomb dropped on frauddiscovery.net and we decided it was too risky.
So now I follow this thread because I find the topic really interesting. I want to understand how Pinnacle operated illegally so I can stay clear from anything similar in the future, and I guarantee there will be a copycat scam out there. Hell, most posts already refer to other posts where Pinnacle IS the copycat of another scam.
So though most investors don't appreciate TMS's "counter productive" comments, I'm actually very interested. It's great that everyone is getting their checks in but don't you want to know if there is a chance that is Pinnacle goes down all the profits might have to be returned? Maybe even some of the original investment and not just profits? I'm not saying if that's even legal to impose or even a plausible scenario but as investors, wouldn't you want to know the good and the bad so you can prepare as oppposed to living on cloud 9 like everything is good and daddy? It's like having cash reserves when you own a property. You are counting on that money to weather the storm yet what if one day you find out its all gone? Would you have prepared differently if you knew there was a high chance that money might not be readily available?
I think so.
Nice post Onie. We all need to remember that now is not the time for any legal action and as long as pinnacle is paying we need to give them our support. I wish all of us the best.
Corbin64, thanks for the information. It was very helpful.
I also want to thank the moderator for keeping this forum open to us. As this is probably the main place on the internet when us Pinnacle investors can go to get information and interact with eachother. We should all be grateful for this forum.
If I am not mistaken, this thread has been viewed almost 40,000 times. Which is way way more than any other thread on this forum. This means that either there are a lot more people reading than there is posting or we are logging into this forum more than a few times per day. Biggerpo can you correct me if I am wrong?
Once again, I would like to thank everyone for their support and posts and I hope we will hear more success stories in the near future.
This thread has not been kept open so you can all attack one another. People are welcome to question Pinnacle here. If you guys continue to bash anyone who questions the legitimacy of Pinnacle, I will be forced to shut this thread down.
I've kept this open so a frank conversation can take place. It is not only a "support group" for Pinnacle investors, but also a place where people can dig deeper and question this company. Even though many of you are getting paid, it does not mean that there may not be problems at Pinnacle. Those of you who are invested should actually welcome people who question the company -- it is important to see all sides and possibilies.
If people blindly listen to what others tell them, they will only find themselves in trouble. You should question Pinnacle and any other company that promises returns of any kind.
I don't believe that there are any fear mongers here. I understand that many of you have a lot invested with the company. I also understand that because of that, you are more emotional about things. Please keep your emotions in check.
I will not put up with anyone who bashes others here. This is my last warning. If you're nasty to someone who disagrees with you, I will remove you from the conversation. There are intelligent ways to counter someone. Stay civil or plan on leaving!