Splinterlife, you have a really good point and I agree with some of them. I think that people have the right to post their thoughts and state facts. But I also believe that people stand to be corrected if they post something that does not apply to pinnacle and claim that pinnacle has broken a law/rule. That only raises panic and adds to our concerns over a false accusation.
I hope this clears up some things. If not let me know.
Joshua (Site Administrator),
A short while back you deleted a response I made to a non-investor who had attacked my character. His attack wasn't deleted; yet part of my response was. (I said "Get a Life.") I just spent an hour rereading the 13 posts from tms - only 2 of which were free of what I would call inflammatory comments. I have a hard time understanding why you would post a warning statement directed only to us shaky investors (and even go so far as to delete our comments) while allowing inflammatory posts like his to continue unabated.
Here are some inciteful tms comments in chronological order;
Enough is enough! In light of the situation I'd say it's tms who's being "nasty" here. All I can say is that 95% of us emotionally drained 'members' are fed up with being continually put down and taunted. Tms claimed to be doing this to "warn" potential investors so you should have reminded him several weeks ago that he needn't worry about that anymore.
I think he should have been cautioned long ago to use some sensitivity before this boiled over to the point where WE'RE now being admonished for merely reacting to his fear mongering.
Rdc,
I completely agree. If people need to be corrected from false claims then a forum is the perfect way to do it. Even better is when you back up your arguments with references to documents.
I'm assuming you are referring to TMS's allegations that Pinnacle has in fact broken 3 laws.
At this point I don't think either side can definitively say Pinnacle has done anything illegal but the fact remains they [Pinnacle] are being investigated for those allegations and for all intents and purposes, my personal opinion is that given the evidence, it does not look good for Pinnacle.
So I'm not sure who has the legitamacy to correct TMS but I don't think it's anyone on this forum. I think the only person who can do that is the Federal and State authorities since they are the ones investigating and trying to build the case against Pinnacle.
Should/can we argue the allegations that TMS brought up? I think that's fine. In fact I think it's great because everyone of us reading gets a deeper understanding of NASD, SEC, and about all the various licenses and registrations.
I'm not sure why you would say "he needn't worry about that anymore." There have been a lot of posts in this thread saying that the company is starting a new program and will be seeking investors and money. So there may be a lot of "potential" investors still visiting this site and reading this thread. I would think that discussing how a company has handled past deals would be legitimate subject matter for those who may be considering subsequent deals. Also, it is possible that other companies will come along and offer similar deals. Having an objective analysis of this company will provide potential investors with good strategies for evaluating these future companies. I know I personally am learning a great deal from reading these posts.
I have created a private yahoo forum for pinnacle investors. Please feel free to check it out and make it useful - it is open only to pinnacle investors. public forum is not always right place to air certain comments - however, I will moderating the forum initially in order to weed out unsubstentiated rumor-mongering.
[EDITED BY ADMINISTRATOR]
If anyone is interested, please contact me.
I agree with you TN Apprentice that "objective analysis" is a good thing. At the same time I think we can all see the difference between objective analysis and inciteful, inflammatory, and downright insulting comments.
Many of us haven't slept in weeks and I'm only asking non-investors to show some sensitivity here at this difficult time.
It has beem an emotional roller coaster ride the past couple of weeks for Pinnacle investors. With the stakes too high for a majority of us, non-investors should at least be diplomatic enough to address the issues in a sensitive way. I can honestly say that the main objective at this very moment is get our money (return payments) back. I am pretty sure that after all of these problems on our end are settled, we will be back to being as rational as it can be. Then we can discuss more objectively all other issues as to the legality and whatever violations Pinnacle might have committed.
But until then, you've got to bear with the serious predicament we are going through. That is human nature and no one can deny that. Easier said than done, that we check our emotions. We are struggling to be as level headed as possible. I hope all the non-investors will understand. Or better else, create another forum discussing the legal issues about this kind of investment schemes. In that way we filter out what kind of topics are discussed and members can decide as to their own free will to go through such discussion.
Bodhi,
What time zone are you in and what time did you try calling? It's 3:50pm right now in Milwaukee and I tried calling several times. Cherise's voice comes up immediately as a default message which has never happen before. I tried the receptionist's # as well and it just rings forever. There has been a few times in the past where nobody has answered because they're in meetings, but not for extended periods of time.
Someone picked up and didn't even answer. They patch me straight through to the musak system.
DLV - The comment you refer to are not attacking anyone directly. They are all basically speculation. They never came after you directly.
The reason I've kept this thread open is so all sides of the situation can be discussed. If you feel taunted, I'm sorry. I do not feel that any of these posts are worthy of removal.
If you have issue with the way I run things here, you can choose to start your own site. I have no problems with that.
Meanwhile, we will continue to keep this thread open to everyone -- Pinnacle investors and non-investors. We will also continue to allow people to question whether the company has been ethical or not as long as they are not commiting libel.
I am sorry that many of you are in a difficult situation with this company, but it is important that everyone reading this thread understand that there is always risk involved in any investment. Unfortunately, those of you who have invested with Pinnacle are now unclear if you will ever see your returns. This is terrible. I hope that everyone gets their money back!
If we can do anything here other then letting you all have a forum for communication, I hope we can reiterate a lesson that we must all learn.
IF IT SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS!
There are many people out there who will try to take advantage of investors. BE CAREFUL!
IN ADDITION, ALWAYS BE WARY OF ANY INVESTMENT THAT PROMISES ANY KIND OF NUMERICAL RETURNS.
Good luck to everyone who is invested with this company. I hope you all see your money soon.
I just spoke with another investor who talked to the people at Pinn. this morning. All was status quo at the time, 10am CST. I just tried calling again and got a busy signal.
I called at 11am PST and left a message on both Charise and Stephanie's direct line. I tried again at 2PM PST and all numbers are coming up busy. OH BOY here we go!!
Thanks Corbin, I just read the whole document. Pinnacle & Gene O'Neil's assets are frozen. I hope to god he goes to jail for a long time and we are able to recover at least some of our money.
To anyone and everyone who has or currently works at Pinnacle: How do you live with yourselves? How do you sleep at night? On some level, you were all privy to what was going on and thus responsible. You are all horrible people. Your salaries were paid with stolen money. Mine and everyone elses on here.
Wow, so have they been indicted?
Well, now that the proverbial poop has hit the fan. Let's just hope with his assets frozen, after it's all over there is enough to pay back most of the investors. But most must realize that...Pinnacle essentially used the money you used as an investment to pay for all their business expenses (think about all those free plane rides and hotel accomodations) for the last few years without actually generating any actual income that has been documented. So what I'm getting at is that you have to prepare to forget about your 25% returns or even your original investment since it's highly unlikely they has the funds to cover that.
With respect to the current investors, does anyone know with all of their [Pinnacle and Gene] assests frozen, how does that affect the checks that are in that 10 day limbo period? It sounds like the checks might not clear now that it has nothing to draw against? I have no idea about what happens when assets are frozen but I am sure there are a lot of people who would like to know.
splinterlife- lets be realistic. We're going to have to forget about the whole thing. If they have been paying investors 25%, salaries, rent, utilities etc and have done so all with our principle (and have not generated any income) how could you assess that anyone is really going to get anything back
To all investors,
I just got off the phone with the GA SEC. All of Pinnacles assets have been frozen including their bank accounts. They said that Pinnacle has allegedly has misrepresented material facts. The receiver appointed to the file is Mr. Hays and you can view his site tomorrow for more information about what we should do. That url is www.haysconsulting.net. Be sure you put in dot "net" and NOT dot "com." The receiver is at Pinnacles office now and gathering information and other things. They also stated that the receiver has 45 days to bring their case to court. And it could be 30 days before we have any further updates. It is believed that Pinnacle owns 13 million in real estate. With that being said, they stated that it may not be a total lost for us investors since pinnacle does have assets. But there is no time frame on how long it will take to sell pinnacle's assets to repay investors.
As for the checks that were deposited and have not cleared the bank, I was assured that they will bounce, since pinnacle's accounts are frozen. I would try to go down to the bank and talk to someone about your situation to see if there is anything you can do about avoiding a return check fee. Maybe try to reverse or cancel the deposit. It's worth a try, so you won't encounter any fees on pinnacle's behalf. It's not our fault that their accounts are frozen.
I will update more as more becomes available.