P.S. I am NOT a tax professional. The comments above are strictly for illustration and not meant as advice. I'm just encouraging everyone to make sure you check with a tax professional in order to ensure that you are making the best possible decision (legally and $$).
Mr. Hays -
I realize that you were not making a criticism of this site. There is only so much we can do to ensure that the information being given here is accurate -- I guess I was a bit defensive.
You're doing a great job, and the investors of Pinnacle need to realize the difficulty of the task you've been given. Good luck.
Sincerely,
we are compiling a list of investors for future possible civil class action after the SEC's effort is complete. REMY started , I took the baton from him and another investor volunteered his services to design a more dynamic site where every Pinnacle investor can access and enter their information. This is the new site. www.absolutestrategies.com/pinnacle.html If you have any questions, concerns or suggestions to improve this site please email [email protected]
This is replacing the spreadsheet.
:beer:
I am a Pinnacle loser and I have watched this site for awhile.
Berkleguy, has anyone checked out Absolutestratgies yet.
I may have missed the effort in earlier posting.
I just dont want to let out anymore personnel info.
Pinnacle has all my info. and I gave it to like a big dummy.
Also lets here it for the Reciever and the SEC for stepping in. :superman:
I would thrilled with 25% at this point.
Cheers
IP Man
correction on my last posting. The link should be www.absolutestrategies.com/pinnacle.html and any questions you can email [email protected]
Thanks for the PM.
I haven't checked them out but I've talked to the owner and fellow Pinnacle investor many times. Feel free to email him any concerns you have.
Berkeleyguy,
You and REMY have done a great job of putting things together. Keep up the great work. You have my personal info, let me know if I can be of any help. As a team we can hopefully make our dreams come true.
Thanks
Sammy
Berkeleyguy,
Just make sure all of the investors are ok with it, as well as being on the same page in thought. We should all take some advice from the receiver on this. He might be able to carefully guide us with this move as well. The receiver has done a wonderful job up to now, and we should consider his advice.
Just a Thought,
Sammy
Who are what is the class action suite going to be against? Gene O'Neal will be broke when its all said & done. Who else is going be be left. I am all for it if there is a reason for it. However, I am not into it for the mental excercise.
The issue of 'net winners' will raise lengthy litigations and delays. They invested in good faith, did nothing illigal and got paid as per their legally enforcable agreement at the time and decided not to rollover their money. Their agreement with pdp expired and no longer in force. They are no longer debtor or creditor or partner with pdp. Receiver has to deal with only those creditors and debtors who have outstanding claims against PDP at the time receiver is appointed. It is no different than bankruptsy proceedings where only creditors who have outstanding claims have to stand before a receiver - their claims can not be met by recalling other creditors who got paid before bankruptsy or asking them to return profit portion of the payments received before bankruptsy. You can count on this issue to be hotly contested if receiver pursues it.
I am tired of all those individuals conforming themselves to a mere 40%, and seemingly willing to forget about this whole ordeal by settling and running like little girls, not willing to put the time and stress that is going to require obtaining our initial 100% of our contribution. I believe the Receiver its an Outstanding Professional who knows what he is doing, and who has the upmost knowledge of how to maximize the funds he is receiving, by the freezing of assets, and litigation. I also believe we need more people like sammy in this site with a positive perspective and can do attitude who are willing to work as a team, and this can be of great benefit since we could project a unified stand to anybody who thinks they are going to get away with any of our money, and to Gene Oneal himself and his associates. I must warn to any of the potential opportunist who may evolve out of this whole ordeal that this forum would put up an incredible battle of unparalleled struggle to prevent anybody from diminishing what is due to us, and that is our initial contribution. I also think this is the time to rollup your sleeves and get to work by strategizing how is it that we are going to get this money back wether through legal advise or future litigation. Good Luck, Fight on, and stay positive.
AG, I think just about everyone here would love 100% back. The reality is just that its not going to happen! There is no where for it to come from. With Pinnacle everything was going out and nothing coming in. Let's do the math.
-A bloated Payroll 40-50 employees
-Excessive rents 22K oer month :shock:
-$300 per night at the JW Marriot
-Limo drivers
-Full time security guards
-Millions in advertising in the WSJ and other pubs
-$500 referral fees
-Paying 25% in 30 then 60 days
- DO THE MATH :violin:
No, I am sure you read that THERE WAS NO MONEY COMING IN!
So where is the money going to come from for 100% of our returns? It doesn't exsist. There is also nothing to sue anyone for because there will be nothing left. The only person which may have a few coins is Kunkel. I am sure he has or is isolating himself and trying like hell to hide his loot.
So, I challenge anyone to tell me where this money is to come from? Even if you win a suite, if they can't pay you have won nothing.
WE WERE CONNED, WE were hood winked, ban-bueslled, we got took. Focus the energy on realistic expectations. Being unrealistic is what got us here. 150% return anually...Come on now? We should have all ran for cover. We wanted it to be true.
Now you want to sue sue sue, No one is going to have any money. Forget about the mental excercise.
Dear Pinnacle Investors,
My name is Syed Hussain, and I am the Chief Executive Officer of Absolute Strategies.
There have been many questions asked (and rightfully so) about Absolute Strategies, and our interest in the whole Pinnacle fiasco. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to personally answer some of those questions.
What is Absolute Strategies and what is their interest in Pinnacle Development Partners?
Absolute Strategies is a strategic management consulting firm that focuses on the small to midsize business (SMB) sector. Amongst the many areas of practice within our firm are investments. Like most organizational investment portfolios, we follow a diversified investment strategy. As a part of this diversified strategy, we have allocated a portion of it to speculative, high risk investments.
Pinnacle Development Partners happened to be one of many companies that was a part of this portfolio.
What is Absolute Strategies looking to gain out of this? What is their fee? How much will it cost the investors?
Believe it or not, but our firm is looking to gain nothing out of this. We are not charging a fee to anyone for any of this.
When our Director of High Risk Investments, brought to my attention the fact that Pinnacle was a potentially fraudulent company under investigation by the SEC, we immediately prepared for the worst by assuming that all of our principle invested was not going to be recovered. Of course with all high risk investments, this is our standard protocol. Our organization had made an investment in which we had already assumed the worst, and put in an amount that we were ok in losing, if things did not work out properly. This is the whole reason behind a well diversified strategy: even if you make one or two bad investments, your other investments will make up for them.
But what was brought to my attention next was what shocked me: Most investors of Pinnacle did not follow a similar strategy and had pretty much put up their life savings in this fraudulent company. These investors were not sophisticated investors and did not have anything to fall back on if things went south.
At the same time he came across this forum and noticed that the investors were in a state of panic and were trying to figure out what was going on by communicating with each other. He advised that our firm provide a centralized location to keep track of all Pinnacle related issues, to which I agreed. I spoke with an investor who was trying to collect investor related issues and advised him of our offerings. Once he also agreed, we had our technical department put up a web page on our site to do exactly that.
Why are you collecting our information? Who will be able to access it?
The primary reason for collecting this is to have all contact information available in the event that any communications need to made with the investors of Pinnacle. This information is dealt with in strict confidence, and will never be disclosed to any outside parties (unrelated to this matter) without the express written consent of the individual(s). Our firm respects the privacy of all investors, and would never risk putting our reputation on the line by compromising our integrity.
Will all of our investments be returned? If we put together a civil lawsuit whose assets will we go after? How much of our investments can we expect to get back?
Unfortunately these are questions that our organization does not have answers for. Whether there is a civil lawsuit put together and what we will go after can only be determined post SEC investigation. But it does serve in the best interest of everyone to continue to be patient. We realize that this is a difficult time for everyone, but panicking now will not bring about any answers. Hays Consulting is doing a fantastic job in fulfilling their responsibility as the receiver. And if there is anything that our organization can provide, please feel free to let us know.
I hope I have managed to clarify at least some of the issues pertaining to this matter. If there are any questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to let us know. We have created an email address for correspondence of all Pinnacle related matters: [email protected].
I thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Syed Hussain
Chief Executive Officer
Absolute Strategies, LLC
People keep bringing up this attorney named Kunkel. I really looked into this guy and it looks like he's got an absolutely clean bar record for 23 or so years. It looks like he's got a private practice. It really doesn't look like he was ever employed by Pinnacle except to close real estate transactions and to set up the partnerships. I know he was on my reference list, but nobody made me invest much less him. I think people should be careful in naming names.
concerned,
there were letters from kunkel sent to me in several correspondences from Pinnacle.. it was the same letter that said 2 things, not to conatct other investors and that he has been Pinn's attorney for x-amount of time & that he understands & supports Pinn;s business model.
I will find this letter & post it word for word.. does anybody else have this letter?
A letter backed from an attorney certainly made me much more comfortable, like 6 figures more comfortable!!!
Not to worry, receiver will get to him if they find any wrong-doing on his part.
Another thing, net winners should not be allowed to keep MINE/OUR $$$!! Shocks me that other investors are ok with it. Again, not saying they did anything wrong, illegal, etc.. They were scammed just like us but they should not be allowed to keep our $$$!!
Taxum and others-
We are not a country based on fairness, we are a country based on laws. While the below definition is not necessarily applicable in the current Pinnacle situation, the concept you are speaking about is called "avoidance". In bankruptcy law, generally the following is true:
A trustee or a debtor in possession has "avoiding" powers, which may be used to cancel a transfer of money or property made during a certain period of time prior to the filing of the bankruptcy petition. This "avoidance" of a particular transfer by a trustee, may force the return of the payments or property tranferred, for the benefit of all creditors. As a general rule, the power to avoid transfers is effective against transfers made within 90 days prior to the filing of the bankruptcy petition. If the transfers involved insiders, which include relatives, general partners, directors or officers of the debtor, the trustee or debtor in possession may "avoid" or cancel such transfers if they were made up to one year prior to the bankruptcy filing.
I hope this adds a little clarity on the situation. And the clock is ticking from the day the original people received their funds, not the day Mr. Hays stepped in.
Taxum
Following people also got paid from your $$$. They all made money out of your $$$
- 40-50 employees
- Landlord - 22K per month
- $300 per night at the JW Marriot
- Limo drivers
- Full time security guards
- WSJ and other pubs
- Lawyers
- Receiver
- many others
To think that you can go back and collect your $$$ from any of them is unrealistic.
kerty..
apples & oranges my friend
hey, your entitled to your opinion.. if your ok with net winners "profiting" from your loss then fine.. you've voiced yourself.. me on the other hand, I will do whatever I can to help get that money back from them so long as it is cost effective.
who knows, maybe all these posters on the blog here that are saying its ok for net winners to keep our $$ are really net winners just trying to plead their case.. just a thought..
It may not be as easy to claim money from net winners. They might have already spent it. They will use the argument that they were not aware of PDP being illegal. How are we gonna squeeze blood out of them turnips??
I believe those who are defending the net winners ARE the net winners. *cough* *kerty* If that is true, I see your frustration, it would definitely be a tough situation. I understand and feel your angst.
To all of the investors, one question, if a house is robbed and the money and goods stolen are hocked, or the money used to pay bills or buy items, then the people receiving the money or goods shouldn't return them? I am fairly certain that is it law that they are seized and returned or used as evidence.
And although some net winners may have been intuitive or lucky enough to have gotten out when they could, some may have been tipped off. How do we know for sure? The receiver is not demanding money from them, however, how in good faith, could you not return something that has been stolen? This is where character and intregrity will have to be in the hearts of the "winners." I personally wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that a fraudulent scheme robbed innocent and trusting people of their money. For some, it was life savings. In my heart, I would feel that I was a party to a crime. As if I came across a bag full of money, and found out the next day that a bank down the street had been robbed. I would know what I would have to do.
Bigman, I am willing to fight for my money, whatever may be left. I am not content to be "bamboozled." If you want to accept that your money has been stolen, that is your choice, and I respect your right to have that choice, however, I see that you post quite frequently, therefore, you must have some interest in receiving your money. Come on big daddy, let's see some fire! :D
Hi All,
I too will like to get all my money in the end but to be honest i think going after the net winners may not be cost effective. We should appeal to their good judgement in hopes that they return the profits but to got after them legally?......I'm not sure that will put enough money in the pot to make a big difference in the % we get back
By the way did any one see the list of office furnishing that were being action from the PDP office. What was he doing with 6 42" and 30 26" plasma TV's
BEST WISHES TO ALL OF US
I too don't think they should "go after" the net winners. The net winners should be notified and appealed to.
Hopefully, they have integrity.
I too will like to get all my money in the end but to be honest i think going after the net winners may not be cost effective. We should appeal to their good judgement in hopes that they return the profits but to got after them legally?......I'm not sure that will put enough money in the pot to make a big difference in the % we get back
By the way did any one see the list of office furnishing that were being action from the PDP office. What was he doing with 6 42" and 30 26" plasma TV's
BEST WISHES TO ALL OF US
In any way we look at this situation, the money was clearly not legally earned. If the money of the investors was not being used appropriately as advertised. The money was not earned legally by anyone whom participated in this, advertisers (Promoting a scam), net winners and many others whom profited. If the net winners want to hold on to our money we might have to look at charging them interest, 10%, 15%, 20%, or even 25%. We will no whom you are eventually. Please make the correct decision. It is only fair to all. If we all work to together we can look at life with a better prospective.
With respect to all,
First message, but I have been reading this blog for the past month...regarding net winners and litigation and the pros and cons for both perspectives...here is a thought about how to recoup some of the monies...did I read that Hays told us that the trust was earning $60,000 per month on the $13M in the bank account?? If so, why not leave that $13M in the bank (plus add whatever monies can be recouped from the proceeds of the sale of any properties and other assets) for a year or two and use the interest to help replace the monies that have been lost to net winners, landlords, W-2, utility expense, etc. Can't recover these monies without spending more monies, so why not put in some extra time and make back our money the old fashioned way...earn it...
That idea is not too bad actually. It beats trying to go after people who earned their money honestly through PDP. The money would be compounded monthly and in about a year and a half all the money would be returned. I think that is safe and pretty smart. = 0 RISK 8)
Count me in on that one.