All best interest rate + investment return that I found

Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing:

average CD rates: 4.5-5%
Highest CD rate ever recorded: 7% (how they could made money over this I dont know)
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Average 30YFRM= 6.5%
best 10Y ARM ever in last 6 months: 4.99%
Typical CMBS loan: 6%
Medium Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 6%
Higher Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 8-10%
Second Position Highest Risk LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 12%
Cash Secured Loan: 2%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%
SVOL short volatility ETF "dividend": 17% (higher risk as NAV may go down 20% if Black Swan event occured)
Typical A-Grade Corporate Investment: 4%
Gov Bond rates at 17 week: 5%

We really live in very interesting times.

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Mike Dymski

Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

Blasphemy...it's always a good time to buy real estate (on the forums...with other peoples money...)!

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Randall AlanPro Member
Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
@Carlos Ptriawan

Not sure your highest cd rates are correct: the below from Nerdwallet.com

CD rates: 1980s to 2000s

The highest CD rates in modern history are decades behind us — around the start of the 1980s. A three-month CD in December 1980 earned 18.65%, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. But it wasn’t a time of economic prosperity, with two back-to-back recessions, high unemployment and double-digit inflation

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Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Randall Alan:

@Carlos Ptriawan

Not sure your highest cd rates are correct: the below from Nerdwallet.com

CD rates: 1980s to 2000s

The highest CD rates in modern history are decades behind us — around the start of the 1980s. A three-month CD in December 1980 earned 18.65%, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. But it wasn’t a time of economic prosperity, with two back-to-back recessions, high unemployment and double-digit inflation

I meant today, not from historic point of view.

0 Reply
J. Mitchell Bernier
Lender · Southwest Georgia · Member since 2017 · 315 posts · 278 votes
3y
Please post which bank is giving 7% on CD's. I would like to make a call.
1 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%

Not to mention money markets, easily paying 3.7%+, some FDIC insured.

Last night I was 'selling' a duplex with a master lease option.
He asked why I am selling. I said grass. Tired of taking care of it.
Then I asked why the heck he was buying. I can earn your cap rate effortlessly and risk-free. Gotta be honest!
1 Reply
Karl B.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
The funny thing is I see commercial properties with cap rates lower than what I can get with a CD.
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Karl B.:

The funny thing is I see commercial properties with cap rates lower than what I can get with a CD.

This is exactly the comment that I am waiting

LOL hahahaha
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Steve Vaughan:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%

Not to mention money markets, easily paying 3.7%+, some FDIC insured.

Last night I was 'selling' a duplex with a master lease option.
He asked why I am selling. I said grass. Tired of taking care of it.
Then I asked why the heck he was buying. I can earn your cap rate effortlessly and risk-free. Gotta be honest!

In 2021, goverment is throwing money to us by giving 30YFRM a 2% rate. And residential market explodes.
Now the goverment is throwing us money again to us, by giving 5%-7% to almost riskless cash position LOL
1 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

If ther goal is to cool economic activity, production, expansion, etc it certainly worked on me. I will chill and take my 4+%!
2 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing:

average CD rates: 4.5-5%
Highest CD rate ever recorded: 7% (how they could made money over this I dont know)
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Average 30YFRM= 6.5%
best 10Y ARM ever in last 6 months: 4.99%
Typical CMBS loan: 6%
Medium Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 6%
Higher Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 8-10%
Second Position Highest Risk LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 12%
Cash Secured Loan: 2%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%
SVOL short volatility ETF "dividend": 17% (higher risk as NAV may go down 20% if Black Swan event occured)
Typical A-Grade Corporate Investment: 4%
Gov Bond rates at 17 week: 5%

We really live in very interesting times.

Gotta admit, it's getting to a point that one does start to wonder "why risk it" when can grab a bond so easily and readily.
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing:

average CD rates: 4.5-5%
Highest CD rate ever recorded: 7% (how they could made money over this I dont know)
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Average 30YFRM= 6.5%
best 10Y ARM ever in last 6 months: 4.99%
Typical CMBS loan: 6%
Medium Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 6%
Higher Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 8-10%
Second Position Highest Risk LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 12%
Cash Secured Loan: 2%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%
SVOL short volatility ETF "dividend": 17% (higher risk as NAV may go down 20% if Black Swan event occured)
Typical A-Grade Corporate Investment: 4%
Gov Bond rates at 17 week: 5%

We really live in very interesting times.

Gotta admit, it's getting to a point that one does start to wonder "why risk it" when can grab a bond so easily and readily.

Up to 10k per acct but we could create unlimited trust name LoL
0 Reply
Mike Dymski
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
3y
Blasphemy...it's always a good time to buy real estate (on the forums...with other peoples money...)!
4 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Blasphemy...it's always a good time to buy real estate (on the forums...with other peoples money...)!

1 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing:

average CD rates: 4.5-5%
Highest CD rate ever recorded: 7% (how they could made money over this I dont know)
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Average 30YFRM= 6.5%
best 10Y ARM ever in last 6 months: 4.99%
Typical CMBS loan: 6%
Medium Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 6%
Higher Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 8-10%
Second Position Highest Risk LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 12%
Cash Secured Loan: 2%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%
SVOL short volatility ETF "dividend": 17% (higher risk as NAV may go down 20% if Black Swan event occured)
Typical A-Grade Corporate Investment: 4%
Gov Bond rates at 17 week: 5%

We really live in very interesting times.

Gotta admit, it's getting to a point that one does start to wonder "why risk it" when can grab a bond so easily and readily.

Up to 10k per acct but we could create unlimited trust name LoL

Seriously..... 7%, no maintenance, no PM fee's (those da#m F'in PM's lol), no tenants, no vacency...... It's tempting....

But here is the deal, the only way they can do 7% is because the dollar is devaluing right off a cliff. That means ASSETS will reap the same reward. So, for me, it actually presses urgency in getting OUT of my dollars even faster, harder, and getting asset-protected.

I've been yammering on this death of the USD risk for some time, and #1 argument against it I get is "what else will people use", well, here it is folks, FedNow starts July.

It's all so out in the open obvious that I think few are catching it. You don't have to fix the debt, debt does not matter, if your just gonna walk away from it and flip currencies. Who owns most of USD debt? Our "friends" from the east, who we keep saber rattling against. So how much do we care leaving them bag-holders? It's a brilliant kind of evil genius really.

USD is geriatric in the ICU hooked to a million tubes and wires like a human-vegetable to keep breathing. Day is soon coming there gonna just, pull-the-plug....
2 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Karl B.:

The funny thing is I see commercial properties with cap rates lower than what I can get with a CD.

Look at VNQ real estate CRE ETF; the dividend is like 4%
No risk Tbill: 5%

LOL, expecting CRE to crash more for the benefit of riskless cash-only Gov bond.
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing:

average CD rates: 4.5-5%
Highest CD rate ever recorded: 7% (how they could made money over this I dont know)
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Average 30YFRM= 6.5%
best 10Y ARM ever in last 6 months: 4.99%
Typical CMBS loan: 6%
Medium Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 6%
Higher Risk Low LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 8-10%
Second Position Highest Risk LTV Hard Money Loan investments: 12%
Cash Secured Loan: 2%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%
SVOL short volatility ETF "dividend": 17% (higher risk as NAV may go down 20% if Black Swan event occured)
Typical A-Grade Corporate Investment: 4%
Gov Bond rates at 17 week: 5%

We really live in very interesting times.

Gotta admit, it's getting to a point that one does start to wonder "why risk it" when can grab a bond so easily and readily.

Up to 10k per acct but we could create unlimited trust name LoL

Seriously..... 7%, no maintenance, no PM fee's (those da#m F'in PM's lol), no tenants, no vacency...... It's tempting....

But here is the deal, the only way they can do 7% is because the dollar is devaluing right off a cliff. That means ASSETS will reap the same reward. So, for me, it actually presses urgency in getting OUT of my dollars even faster, harder, and getting asset-protected.

I've been yammering on this death of the USD risk for some time, and #1 argument against it I get is "what else will people use", well, here it is folks, FedNow starts July.

It's all so out in the open obvious that I think few are catching it. You don't have to fix the debt, debt does not matter, if your just gonna walk away from it and flip currencies. Who owns most of USD debt? Our "friends" from the east, who we keep saber rattling against. So how much do we care leaving them bag-holders? It's a brilliant kind of evil genius really.

USD is geriatric in the ICU hooked to a million tubes and wires like a human-vegetable to keep breathing. Day is soon coming there gonna just, pull-the-plug....

USD is going down because future interest rate expectation is going down, vice versa. the I bond last year returned 9% ; I guess the yield for 2024 and 2025 would be around 4 to 5. Then inflation talk would be over.
I am still expecting the CRE for a modest drop because with current investment rate vs interest rate vs other investments ; there's lot of mismatch in pricing.
It's actually very strange to see a developed country like US is experiencing higher inflation than third world country.
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @J. Mitchell Bernier:

Please post which bank is giving 7% on CD's. I would like to make a call.

Priority One Credit Union in Los Angeles.

But I'm wondering how they could make money if their spread is 2% with T-Bill. Maybe they would limit the number of depositors.

0 Reply
Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y
@Carlos Ptriawan
great post. unfortunately BP has everyone bringing a 2012 mindset to the 2023 market. they've started to pivot a little bit but there's a big lag. and CA investors are putting 100K into properties in the midwest to "get in" when, as you pointed out, they could be earning 5-7% nearly risk-free.
sigh.
2 Reply
Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Carlos Ptriawan
great post. unfortunately BP has everyone bringing a 2012 mindset to the 2023 market. they've started to pivot a little bit but there's a big lag. and CA investors are putting 100K into properties in the midwest to "get in" when, as you pointed out, they could be earning 5-7% nearly risk-free.
sigh.

Can you get great returns on CD's etc right now, of course you can. Will that last forever - nope. Real estate is such a slow moving asset class that cap rates have not even come close to catching up. If you can buy an office building at 50% off right now and hold it for a decade, I bet the return will be far superior than the 6-7% you can get risk free, but that is the risk someone needs to take and why everyone should have a diversified portfolio in different asset classes and base risk off of their own portfolio and not what other people are doing.
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Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y
@Chris Seveney
totally agree. although I do think there's a difference between what new investors with limited capital can / should do and what diversified, higher net worth investors can and should do. and I see new investors get the latter advice frequently.
2 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Carlos Ptriawan

great post. unfortunately BP has everyone bringing a 2012 mindset to the 2023 market. they've started to pivot a little bit but there's a big lag. and CA investors are putting 100K into properties in the midwest to "get in" when, as you pointed out, they could be earning 5-7% nearly risk-free.

sigh.

Can you get great returns on CD's etc right now, of course you can. Will that last forever - nope. Real estate is such a slow moving asset class that cap rates have not even come close to catching up. If you can buy an office building at 50% off right now and hold it for a decade, I bet the return will be far superior than the 6-7% you can get risk free, but that is the risk someone needs to take and why everyone should have a diversified portfolio in different asset classes and base risk off of their own portfolio and not what other people are doing.

There're few office syndication hunting an Class A Office for 30% discount right now , like you said it would be the most highest IRR return in the next 10 years :)
0 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Chris Seveney
totally agree. although I do think there's a difference between what new investors with limited capital can / should do and what diversified, higher net worth investors can and should do. and I see new investors get the latter advice frequently.

In AI-syndication only I see office and MF with huge discount is being hunted. You need to invest with 25 or 50k. Many times if operator is excellent and buying discount property, their return could be amazing. I've seen one for 80% IRR/2EM when one purchasing MF in 2021, although they're rare in between. Most historical performance that I track is showing 10-20%IRR is the normal, which is similar to residential.
0 Reply
Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
I will not even get out of bed for less than 20% ish. But I am spoiled
1 Reply
Carlos Ptriawan
OP
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Bob S.:

I will not even get out of bed for less than 20% ish. But I am spoiled

You are located in gold cave :-)
0 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2022 · 125 posts · 124 votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Steve Vaughan:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I found all these rates and investment return to be very amusing
Typical MF cap rate: 4%
Typical NNN/syndication rates after fees: 4-6%

Not to mention money markets, easily paying 3.7%+, some FDIC insured.

Last night I was 'selling' a duplex with a master lease option.

He asked why I am selling. I said grass. Tired of taking care of it.

Then I asked why the heck he was buying. I can earn your cap rate effortlessly and risk-free. Gotta be honest!

In 2021, goverment is throwing money to us by giving 30YFRM a 2% rate. And residential market explodes.
Now the goverment is throwing us money again to us, by giving 5%-7% to almost riskless cash position LOL

A CD is loaning the FED money and paying the government taxes on the return. No thanks! The beauty of real estate is all the tax deductions, plus it’s a physical asset that will always be a necessity. If you do it right, you will get a lot higher than a 7% return and have minimal effort.
1 Reply
Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Bob S.:

I will not even get out of bed for less than 20% ish. But I am spoiled

You are located in gold cave :-)

LOL, no its all about knowledge and your team. Just in the last week, 3 new props, all with 15% + net caps,,,,,, I can get as many as I want. So many make it more complicated then it needs to be. So many just read books and sit on the internet, TERRIBLE. waste of time. . I learned hands on then applied it all. Well 10 years later, really not much I have not done .
All the best

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All best interest rate + investment return that I found

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CD rates: 1980s to 2000s

CD rates: 1980s to 2000s