Hi there!
I'm contemplating adding a bedroom with a bathroom into my single-car garage space... nothing major, just a simple space conversion. Has ANYBODY gone through the permits process and done this? The costs from securing architectural drawings to getting a survey and mechanical/engineering/plumbing sheets are wild! Does anybody have a hack for THIS? The goal is to generate income from my primary residence.
You will want the full set of plans: elevations, electrical, mechanical, plumbing, floor plan with signatures and seals.
For the mini split, some recommendations: If you're going to use 2 heads (one for living room, one for bedroom), get 2 separate single zone outdoor units (not a multi-zone). For small spaces, you can't get a small enough (in terms of BTU) multi-zone unit and what happens is one unit receives refrigerant even when not running if the other is running, which due to the cold of the evap coil causes it to condensate and ultimately causes constant problems with drainage.
Also, look for a mini-split where you can connect an external thermostat and configure the head unit to shut off when the set point is reached. The default mode of operation for mini-splits is to run the fan continuously 24/7, which causes high humidity because all of the condensation is being blown back into the building.
You can get top tier mitsubishi units for cheap at surplus city liquidators. I've gotten several from them.
Finding a good contractor that's also affordable is a challenge, especially here in South Florida. If you pull the permit under your name, you at least have the flexibility to fire and replace a contractor, and you don't need to hire a GC, just the subs.
Feel free to DM me. I have pulled a few permits here and have done some larger projects. I'm also part way through the state licensing exams for getting my own GC license.
Where are you trying to do this? the first step is to reach out to city regulation and see what is possible in your area.
I have done this in my local market but my city permits the ADUs and DADUs.
If you are simply converting a garage and not changing anything structurally, you shouldn't need engineered drawings.
@Joy Hey!
It sounds like you're being creative with your extra space. Do you know anyone who has successfully done this? Do you attend any local meet-ups? If so, maybe try to connect with someone else who has done what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't go to meet-ups, then here is a great reason to! haha.
To piggyback off @Jeremy Jareckyj, I'd check your local regulations to be sure this is allowed in your city/zoning. It would not be a fun scenario, to do it, then find out it is illegal :o.
Good luck with it!
-Ant
The hack for this is pulling an owner-builder permit and doing the work yourself.
Many cities in the Ft Lauderdale area will permit an ADU WITHOUT a kitchen. There are some that will permit a full ADU with a kitchen (Tamarac for example). You'd need to look up the land development code for your city and find the zoning restrictions for your particular zone.
Depending on the extent of what you want to do, there will be multiple departments involved and multiple permits required: structural, zoning, electrical, plumbing, and mechanical. But if your residence is a single family or duplex, you can pull all of the permits yourself under the owner-builder exemption of the FL statutes. I've done this myself more than once.
You will want an architect (figure a few thousand for plans). The permitting fees will also be a a couple grand (figure a few hundred per department). From there, as an owner-builder, you can either sub out the work to licensed contractors or do the work yourself.
One very important thing to consider is separation between the two living units. A regular partition wall with insulation is not going to cut it for noise sensitive residents. I did a double framed wall with doubled 5/8" drywall on both sides with green glue and double insulation in the middle on my ADU, and it's beautiful. One side can have the radio on and the other side is completely oblivious. Also consider having separate HVAC systems (perhaps a mini split for the guest side). I went as far as separate electrical meters.
Hi Jeremy and Anthony! Thank you both gor replying. I'm in Ft. Lauderdale and the city does allow this in my area, and there are other home owners in my neighborhood who have converted... you can tell because they've either replaced the garage door with a window or filled the cavity to match the match the front exterior.
I've also contacted the city to ask general questions and to ask if this is permitted in my neighborhood, what's needed etc. I've researched the city regulations too. But as for house-specific info? I won't know that until I submit a permit with drawings.
What I'm not finding out is how to scale back the full-scale list of things needed by the city... like do i need a full-blown set of drawings, all signed and sealed for a tiny 280 square foot garage conversion? This is what they cannot tell me until I submit.
That's why I camr here, looking for others who have done this. I am putting in a small bathroom, enclosing the area inside where the automatic garage door is... city requires that all conversions in our area raise the floor. I'll also need some walls to section off the bathroom. Nothing extravagant.
Wondering if I can scale back from needing a full-set of architectural drawings which can run from $3800 up to $5,000 (signed and sealed) and get minimal just basic drawings and then let the city dictate which drawings or documents are needed after I submit a drawing?
The hack for this is pulling an owner-builder permit and doing the work yourself.
Many cities in the Ft Lauderdale area will permit an ADU WITHOUT a kitchen. There are some that will permit a full ADU with a kitchen (Tamarac for example). You'd need to look up the land development code for your city and find the zoning restrictions for your particular zone.
Depending on the extent of what you want to do, there will be multiple departments involved and multiple permits required: structural, zoning, electrical, plumbing, and mechanical. But if your residence is a single family or duplex, you can pull all of the permits yourself under the owner-builder exemption of the FL statutes. I've done this myself more than once.
You will want an architect (figure a few thousand for plans). The permitting fees will also be a a couple grand (figure a few hundred per department). From there, as an owner-builder, you can either sub out the work to licensed contractors or do the work yourself.
One very important thing to consider is separation between the two living units. A regular partition wall with insulation is not going to cut it for noise sensitive residents. I did a double framed wall with doubled 5/8" drywall on both sides with green glue and double insulation in the middle on my ADU, and it's beautiful. One side can have the radio on and the other side is completely oblivious. Also consider having separate HVAC systems (perhaps a mini split for the guest side). I went as far as separate electrical meters.
OMG Jeff... THIS is EXACTLY what I was looking for!! Thank you for providing such needed info! For my residential code, the city allows ADUs with no kitchen, but a kitchenette is permitted. I'm totally down with the pulling-an-owner-permit hack!! And thank you for letting me know the ave. cost for an architect and to expect a couple extra grand in permitting fees. Like... yikes!
I was also VERY concerned about the noise factor and your sound-proofing specs are like heaven-sent!!!
And about the HVAC systems, I think I want the mini-split so they can control their own climate. I went to Youtube university for some grain-of-salt intel (lol). Do you think I might need the full suite of plans from the architect (drawings, MEPs, 3D, signatures and seals)? One guy offered schematics (no signatures or seals or MEPs just drawings to secure estimates from prospective contractors), but if I understand correctly, sounds like I need everything as this will go through all permit depts.
I am also going to try to do SOME things myself if I can find a solid enough document or set of video instructions to do so... like maybe laying the tile or framing up the walls? Going to research it.
Again, THANK YOU. I haven't started or spent any $$ yet... I've got architectural bids from several companies and that is where I felt road-blocked due to lack of info and no experience on how to proceed. I greatly appreciate your detailed info and knowledge! I think I'm ready to move forward with the first step in hiring an architect and using their drawings to get estimates from prospective licensed contractors. Oh yeah... anything to watch out for in doing so?
You will want the full set of plans: elevations, electrical, mechanical, plumbing, floor plan with signatures and seals.
For the mini split, some recommendations: If you're going to use 2 heads (one for living room, one for bedroom), get 2 separate single zone outdoor units (not a multi-zone). For small spaces, you can't get a small enough (in terms of BTU) multi-zone unit and what happens is one unit receives refrigerant even when not running if the other is running, which due to the cold of the evap coil causes it to condensate and ultimately causes constant problems with drainage.
Also, look for a mini-split where you can connect an external thermostat and configure the head unit to shut off when the set point is reached. The default mode of operation for mini-splits is to run the fan continuously 24/7, which causes high humidity because all of the condensation is being blown back into the building.
You can get top tier mitsubishi units for cheap at surplus city liquidators. I've gotten several from them.
Finding a good contractor that's also affordable is a challenge, especially here in South Florida. If you pull the permit under your name, you at least have the flexibility to fire and replace a contractor, and you don't need to hire a GC, just the subs.
Feel free to DM me. I have pulled a few permits here and have done some larger projects. I'm also part way through the state licensing exams for getting my own GC license.
One other thing to note -- if you do end up doing all of the work yourself under an owner-builder permit, there is a restriction that the property cannot be rented or sold for 12 months. Whether or not the city would follow-up on that is an open question.
However, if the work is substantially done by a contractor under the owner-builder permit, the restriction does not apply.
Also, some cities will try to tell you that you can't pull certain permits as owner-builder, but it is written into the FL statues. Some jurisdictions, like I think Miami, makes the homeowner take an assessment of some sort, but I don't think that's common.
In one case I heard of, the city told a homeowner that he could not pull an owner-builder for a roofing permit. He got a city official involved and the city eventually relented.
Piece of cake. I've done this at a few properties. my last project I hired a drafter rather than an architect. His drawings sailed right thru the permit office. There was no structural changes involved, so no structural engineer. The city even had a little handout for garage conversion, pertaining to achieving the proper R value for an in place slab. For cost reasons I called it a remodel rather than an ADU. This saved around $50k of charges for sewer impact fees and separate electric meter(who wants another bill? not me). You can buy these little meters that attach to your sub panel, if you want to know how much elec the unit is using. My biggest surprise on this last project was that they allowed standard 1/2" sheetrock for fire wall. In the past it's always been 5/8". I was stunned. Not saying you should, check first of course.
One other thing to note -- if you do end up doing all of the work yourself under an owner-builder permit, there is a restriction that the property cannot be rented or sold for 12 months. Whether or not the city would follow-up on that is an open question.
However, if the work is substantially done by a contractor under the owner-builder permit, the restriction does not apply.
Also, some cities will try to tell you that you can't pull certain permits as owner-builder, but it is written into the FL statues. Some jurisdictions, like I think Miami, makes the homeowner take an assessment of some sort, but I don't think that's common.
In one case I heard of, the city told a homeowner that he could not pull an owner-builder for a roofing permit. He got a city official involved and the city eventually relented.
Love that you're armed with the FL statues, and I appreciate that tip about potentially not being able to rent or sell for 12 months... awareness is key.:-) I WISH they would try that nonsense with me because I had contemplated pulling my own roofing permit (and hiring my own roofers) before I found a decent full-serviced roofer. Mind you... I didn't know HOW... I just knew it was an option! lol
I so appreciate all of this because I am a TOTAL rookie here. I am just an ambitious homeowner.
Piece of cake. I've done this at a few properties. my last project I hired a drafter rather than an architect. His drawings sailed right thru the permit office. There was no structural changes involved, so no structural engineer. The city even had a little handout for garage conversion, pertaining to achieving the proper R value for an in place slab. For cost reasons I called it a remodel rather than an ADU. This saved around $50k of charges for sewer impact fees and separate electric meter(who wants another bill? not me). You can buy these little meters that attach to your sub panel, if you want to know how much elec the unit is using. My biggest surprise on this last project was that they allowed standard 1/2" sheetrock for fire wall. In the past it's always been 5/8". I was stunned. Not saying you should, check first of course.
Hi Henry! Where did you find a drafter?? One of the city's structural engineers actually told me I could hire a drafter if my budget is under 30K and trust and believe it IS! lol The drafters will give you drawings without it being signed or sealed right? And they are often LESS expensive because they are non-licensed architects. But then a few architects scared me and said things like "I've never heard of the city not needing signed and sealed drawings and I've done x-zillion of these".
Do you know what the city considers a structural change? I am putting a bathroom into my garage, i have to even out my split-level floor and fill it, will have a kitchenette and the front sliding garage door will remain from the outside, but inside, there will be an insulated wall.. and they might trench a couple feet outside to run the run the bathroom piping and link it to the front sewer. Is any of that considered structural?
And did your drafter need a survey? The architect is asking for an expensive survey (and NO DOCS are on file for my property with either the city OR the county except my recent roof replacement). It's because my house is older and was annexed by the city.
Did you even need a survey? Do we know the circumstances that may warrant the city needing one? I know Ft. Laud wants a site plan, a floor plan, elevation, and a wall section for intake (but I don't know what that wall section intake thing means). Are more importantly are you also in Ft. laud, and if so, did you have to submit the 4 things I mentioned?
Piece of cake. I've done this at a few properties. my last project I hired a drafter rather than an architect. His drawings sailed right thru the permit office. There was no structural changes involved, so no structural engineer. The city even had a little handout for garage conversion, pertaining to achieving the proper R value for an in place slab. For cost reasons I called it a remodel rather than an ADU. This saved around $50k of charges for sewer impact fees and separate electric meter(who wants another bill? not me). You can buy these little meters that attach to your sub panel, if you want to know how much elec the unit is using. My biggest surprise on this last project was that they allowed standard 1/2" sheetrock for fire wall. In the past it's always been 5/8". I was stunned. Not saying you should, check first of course.
Depends heavily on the AHJ where you're located and whether or not you have a pre-existing relationship with them. Since you're speaking to a 50k impact fee, that sounds like you're on the west coast. Here in FL, you can build out an ADU for under 3k in total fees. The electric company installed the new meter for free after giving me a credit for adding laying the conduit required for the 200amp to 400amp upgrade.
As for the 1/2" (non fire code) gyp, my understanding of the code is that a 1 hour rated assembly is required between "dwelling units." However, if you labeled it as an addition (not a separate dwelling unit), code only requires 30 minute fire assembly (1/2 gyp) between sleeping units (bedrooms). But for the safety of the occupants, the up charge to go to 5/8" is pretty minimal.
Piece of cake. I've done this at a few properties. my last project I hired a drafter rather than an architect. His drawings sailed right thru the permit office. There was no structural changes involved, so no structural engineer. The city even had a little handout for garage conversion, pertaining to achieving the proper R value for an in place slab. For cost reasons I called it a remodel rather than an ADU. This saved around $50k of charges for sewer impact fees and separate electric meter(who wants another bill? not me). You can buy these little meters that attach to your sub panel, if you want to know how much elec the unit is using. My biggest surprise on this last project was that they allowed standard 1/2" sheetrock for fire wall. In the past it's always been 5/8". I was stunned. Not saying you should, check first of course.
Hi Henry! Where did you find a drafter?? One of the city's structural engineers actually told me I could hire a drafter if my budget is under 30K and trust and believe it IS! lol The drafters will give you drawings without it being signed or sealed right? And they are often LESS expensive because they are non-licensed architects. But then a few architects scared me and said things like "I've never heard of the city not needing signed and sealed drawings and I've done x-zillion of these".
Do you know what the city considers a structural change? I am putting a bathroom into my garage, i have to even out my split-level floor and fill it, will have a kitchenette and the front sliding garage door will remain from the outside, but inside, there will be an insulated wall.. and they might trench a couple feet outside to run the run the bathroom piping and link it to the front sewer. Is any of that considered structural?
And did your drafter need a survey? The architect is asking for an expensive survey (and NO DOCS are on file for my property with either the city OR the county except my recent roof replacement). It's because my house is older and was annexed by the city.
Did you even need a survey? Do we know the circumstances that may warrant the city needing one? I know Ft. Laud wants a site plan, a floor plan, elevation, and a wall section for intake (but I don't know what that wall section intake thing means). Are more importantly are you also in Ft. laud, and if so, did you have to submit the 4 things I mentioned?
Ask your local building dept. Each bulding dept can vary significantly in what they require.
In my area (Tamarac), zoning requires a survey and elevation certificate for additions.
You can also go in and ask to meet with the inspectors or email them directly. Go to this page and click on the structural (building) section for the list of contact info: https://www.fortlauderdale.gov/government/departments-a-h/de...
My assumption would be that you are going to add at least a window and / or a exterior door for egress requirements, which would require a structural modification.
Also, I think you will need to raise the floor level of the garage to current flood level reqs, either with an overpour or framing.
Whoa! I didn't know I could meet with the inspectors! And I already have both an existing exterior side door and a big window that is the same size as the windows in my bed room, so I'm assuming they all meet.the egress reqs. Jeeze Jeff, you are a life-saver!! Oh and yes... they told me for sure that I must raise the floor per my city's requirements... is that considered a structural change?
Whoa! I didn't know I could meet with the inspectors! And I already have both an existing exterior side door and a big window that is the same size as the windows in my bed room, so I'm assuming they all meet.the egress reqs. Jeeze Jeff, you are a life-saver!!
Totally, I've done it many times. In person, phone, email. They are generally pretty responsive.
Piece of cake. I've done this at a few properties. my last project I hired a drafter rather than an architect. His drawings sailed right thru the permit office. There was no structural changes involved, so no structural engineer. The city even had a little handout for garage conversion, pertaining to achieving the proper R value for an in place slab. For cost reasons I called it a remodel rather than an ADU. This saved around $50k of charges for sewer impact fees and separate electric meter(who wants another bill? not me). You can buy these little meters that attach to your sub panel, if you want to know how much elec the unit is using. My biggest surprise on this last project was that they allowed standard 1/2" sheetrock for fire wall. In the past it's always been 5/8". I was stunned. Not saying you should, check first of course.
Depends heavily on the AHJ where you're located and whether or not you have a pre-existing relationship with them. Since you're speaking to a 50k impact fee, that sounds like you're on the west coast. Here in FL, you can build out an ADU for under 3k in total fees. The electric company installed the new meter for free after giving me a credit for adding laying the conduit required for the 200amp to 400amp upgrade.
As for the 1/2" (non fire code) gyp, my understanding of the code is that a 1 hour rated assembly is required between "dwelling units." However, if you labeled it as an addition (not a separate dwelling unit), code only requires 30 minute fire assembly (1/2 gyp) between sleeping units (bedrooms). But for the safety of the occupants, the up charge to go to 5/8" is pretty minimal.
The other hack you can do is -- if there is a home in the area that has done something similar to what you want to do, oftentimes the city will give you access to their plans. I believe they are protected by copyright laws, but you can at least get a feel for how others have done it.
Permitting is public record in this area. Here's the link to Ft Laud permitting https://aca-prod.accela.com/FTL/Cap/CapHome.aspx?ShowMyPermi...
If you see a recently done job in the area that you like, you can find the contractors who did it from the permit lookup. It even gives access to inspection results.
Piece of cake. I've done this at a few properties. my last project I hired a drafter rather than an architect. His drawings sailed right thru the permit office. There was no structural changes involved, so no structural engineer. The city even had a little handout for garage conversion, pertaining to achieving the proper R value for an in place slab. For cost reasons I called it a remodel rather than an ADU. This saved around $50k of charges for sewer impact fees and separate electric meter(who wants another bill? not me). You can buy these little meters that attach to your sub panel, if you want to know how much elec the unit is using. My biggest surprise on this last project was that they allowed standard 1/2" sheetrock for fire wall. In the past it's always been 5/8". I was stunned. Not saying you should, check first of course.
Hi Henry! Where did you find a drafter?? One of the city's structural engineers actually told me I could hire a drafter if my budget is under 30K and trust and believe it IS! lol The drafters will give you drawings without it being signed or sealed right? And they are often LESS expensive because they are non-licensed architects. But then a few architects scared me and said things like "I've never heard of the city not needing signed and sealed drawings and I've done x-zillion of these".
Do you know what the city considers a structural change? I am putting a bathroom into my garage, i have to even out my split-level floor and fill it, will have a kitchenette and the front sliding garage door will remain from the outside, but inside, there will be an insulated wall.. and they might trench a couple feet outside to run the run the bathroom piping and link it to the front sewer. Is any of that considered structural?
And did your drafter need a survey? The architect is asking for an expensive survey (and NO DOCS are on file for my property with either the city OR the county except my recent roof replacement). It's because my house is older and was annexed by the city.
Did you even need a survey? Do we know the circumstances that may warrant the city needing one? I know Ft. Laud wants a site plan, a floor plan, elevation, and a wall section for intake (but I don't know what that wall section intake thing means). Are more importantly are you also in Ft. laud, and if so, did you have to submit the 4 things I mentioned?
I found my drafter on craigslist. He was great! No survey required. Site plan is always required. We got the property measurements from the legal description and he drew up a very detailed site map. He also drew floor plan, elevations, materials list, plumbing, electrical, fenestration, R values list, etc. . In WA state there's a lot of leeway given to home owners doing their own projects, there's probably even more leeway in Florida I would think, but I don't know Florida. We're not building the Empire state building. They just want to see your neatly drwan plan, what youre doing, and make sure it is done to code. They don't care who draws it. You don't need seals and signatures. It simply has to convey, within basic standards, everything you're doing, safe and up to code. In my case an architect wanted 5k, the drafter did everything for 1k. Worked out for me. You may have different requirements, I don't know your stiuation.
I don't know if your floor changes are structural. If you have access to a city permit dept, I'd suggest taking some drawings and pictures and ask them what they think, if you need structural engineering. Then get to it. Good luck.
Oh Yes, those "4 things" you metioned are always part of the permitting process and are a standard part of basic permit drawings. The city needs those details. A drafter or architect will do them for you.
Def worth a shot to save 4k. Only other thing I can think of that would constitute a structural mod would be if the floor of the garage needed to be raised and if it were to be done via framing vs overpour. Any time I've done an addition, I had to raise the floor to match the rest of the house.
There is one unethical hack I've seen for the floor issue -- calling the garage conversion a "storage conversion" (not classifying it for living purposes). I think it depends on the department and could lead to liability issues, but I've seen it done.
Henry, your "We're not building the Empire State building" comment took me out! LOL! Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the process and for outlining some of the mandatory things that code departments will likely need across the board, regardless of where you are. And it's so helpful you shared how it went with your drafter and the items they needed to get you going. I appreciate you simplifying what can be a complex process. I think I'm getting the gist of this... I'm going to find out from the city: if I need a survey for my garage project, if raising the floor constitutes a structural change (city requires I elevate the floor), and I want solid confirmation on whether signatures and/or seals are needed for my modest garage remodel.
Thanks for the intel, Henry!
There is one unethical hack I've seen for the floor issue -- calling the garage conversion a "storage conversion" (not classifying it for living purposes). I think it depends on the department and could lead to liability issues, but I've seen it done.
Def worth a shot to save 4k. Only other thing I can think of that would constitute a structural mod would be if the floor of the garage needed to be raised and if it were to be done via framing vs overpour. Any time I've done an addition, I had to raise the floor to match the rest of the house.
There is one unethical hack I've seen for the floor issue -- calling the garage conversion a "storage conversion" (not classifying it for living purposes). I think it depends on the department and could lead to liability issues, but I've seen it done.