House Hacking FSBO: Negotiation process

House Hacking FSBO: Negotiation process

Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 811 posts · 578 votes

Hey BP,

I found a FSBO property in my area that has potential to be a solid house hack deal.

Do you guys have any tips for negotiating with the seller? 

The seller for this property is motivated because he never intended to be a landlord and wants to move to Florida.I want to try to get him to understand all of the expenses that I need to incur as an investor and that my offer price comes down to the number my spreadsheet shoots out basically.

The property is listed for $305,000 and he conceded an additional $15k down to $290k without me even saying anything. There is definitely potential to get it lower but it seems like it is going to have to be way lower after considering the expenses that are going to come with it.The entire property has potential to bring in $3,000 worth of rental income if my rent comps are correct. One unit is updated and the other would need to be updated while we are living in it.

I want to get him to understand if our monthly payment is too high, we don't have the extra cash lying around to fix up the other unit and get it to market rents. Which in turn makes the investment not viable. 

He is looking for $290,000 but realistic offer price with the current interest rate and other expenses is closer to $260,000. 

Should I ask if he has a loan on the property that is assumable? He bought it in 2021 so I bet it's low. I just have no clue how to navigate that. 

Thanks for any insight!!!

-Ben 

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Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y

@Benjamin Sulka

I think it's fine to present your analysis, but you can't "convince" anyone of anything.  He either accepts or he doesn't.  If he declines, you thank him for hearing you out, and you move on to the next one.

And on the loan, it's probably not assumable, and I don't recommend that new investors buy deals sub-to.

Do you have a lender lined up? And even if you're not working with an agent, do you have someone advising you?

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Benjamin Sulka

    I think it's fine to present your analysis, but you can't "convince" anyone of anything.  He either accepts or he doesn't.  If he declines, you thank him for hearing you out, and you move on to the next one.

    And on the loan, it's probably not assumable, and I don't recommend that new investors buy deals sub-to.

    Do you have a lender lined up? And even if you're not working with an agent, do you have someone advising you?

  • Jake AndronicoBusiness Member
    Realtor · Reno, NV · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 938 votes
    2y

    @Benjamin Sulka

    That's awesome he already revealed a lower price up front!! 

    Always be willing to walk away, or, if you really want it you're going to likely pay above what makes the most financial sense to you based on pure math. 

    Not sure if you're going FHA or not but I know of a loan product called Home Simple with All Western Mortgage that allows you to make a cash offer to the seller and then refi out with a conventional loan, but my understanding is it requires 5% EMD.

    It may not make sense to you, but just throwing it out there as a quick cash deal may seem more appealing to the seller at that price. 

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Here is another point: If you sell direct with me there are no agent commissions. Technically that should give you another 5% haircut.

    You should not pay more for the property than what you can find on the market. Unless it is super nice or has an amenity others are missing

    Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 590 Reviews
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  • Member since 2024 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Benjamin Sulka

    I think it's fine to present your analysis, but you can't "convince" anyone of anything.  He either accepts or he doesn't.  If he declines, you thank him for hearing you out, and you move on to the next one.

    And on the loan, it's probably not assumable, and I don't recommend that new investors buy deals sub-to.

    Do you have a lender lined up? And even if you're not working with an agent, do you have someone advising you?


     Hey Nick, 

    I am a new investor here I appreciate your response to OP's question, could you elaborate on the complexities associated with assuming a mortgage in today’s high-interest rate environment? Additionally, would you advise against this practice for new investors?

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 811 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Benjamin Sulka

    I think it's fine to present your analysis, but you can't "convince" anyone of anything.  He either accepts or he doesn't.  If he declines, you thank him for hearing you out, and you move on to the next one.

    And on the loan, it's probably not assumable, and I don't recommend that new investors buy deals sub-to.

    Do you have a lender lined up? And even if you're not working with an agent, do you have someone advising you?


     Nick, 

    Thanks so much for the response. We do have a lender lined up and do have an agent.

    I'm thinking about going straight through the title company because my agent did not find this property and did not do any of the seller negotiation. 

    Am I wrong in thinking this? 

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2022 · 811 posts · 578 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:

    Here is another point: If you sell direct with me there are no agent commissions. Technically that should give you another 5% haircut.

    You should not pay more for the property than what you can find on the market. Unless it is super nice or has an amenity others are missing

     Alan,

    That's a great point. 

    If I have a buyers agency agreement but this property is off-market, is this binding? I'm not asking for legal advice haha but rather an opinion. The realtor did not find this property and has done none of the negotiation. 

    All the best,
    Ben

  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Benjamin Sulka:
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:

    Here is another point: If you sell direct with me there are no agent commissions. Technically that should give you another 5% haircut.

    You should not pay more for the property than what you can find on the market. Unless it is super nice or has an amenity others are missing

     Alan,

    That's a great point. 

    If I have a buyers agency agreement but this property is off-market, is this binding? I'm not asking for legal advice haha but rather an opinion. The realtor did not find this property and has done none of the negotiation. 

    All the best,
    Ben


     Check the agreement. There should be clear language there about compensation for properties found on or off market. 

    If you're not asking him to represent you in this transaction and are not using any other agents to draft paperwork, etc, then you should not be liable. 

    However it is all case by case and you should go through that buyer agency agreement. 

    If you decide to use him for your services maybe it is worth negotiating him to a lower fee for coordinating the transaction and doing the paperwork. 

    Good luck!

    Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 590 Reviews
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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

     @NA Moore

    truly "assuming" a mortgage is fine.  but the vast majority of mortgages are not assumable.  and if you purchase a property that has a mortgage on it without paying off the mortgage - that is generally called "sub to" since you're making the purchase subject to the existing mortgage.  much higher risk for everyone involved and not a beginner strategy.

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