ABOLISH the IRS and Implement a Sales Tax?
Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes
ABOLISH the IRS and Implement a Sales Tax?
Most Popular Reply
Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3yQuote from @Rich O'Neill:
Haha that's awesome, I need to take a little pride in that ranking. So here's my take and it really is common sense...
At the end of the day I go back to 2 scenarios -(1) you can dump 20 people on abandoned island somewhere or (2) go back to "caveman" days and separate but also true, no matter what it comes to eventually violence will be the end to force something. Study the actions/thoughts/emotions of those people and that will tell you exactly what you need to know and how the world functions at it's base instinctual level. The farther you get from this base level the more problems you have.
You don't gather yourself food - you go hungry. Someone has a legitimate broken leg, you take care of them and give them a separate task to do. I can tell you for a fact all this LGBTQ, gay, feminist, BLM, feeling hurt BS goes out the window with a quickness. That kind of stuff only exists in a society SO privileged that everyone's basic needs (plus lots more) and completely taken care of. You get this sense of entitlement when people don't have to work for their basic needs so they think they deserve more than what they are given. On top of that it creates absolute degeneracy in society because there are no punishment's for people actions because people are more worried about their feelings than surviving.
Child molester? Rapist? Murderer? Chop their head off in public. I bet the next person thinks their actions through a little better. Some may say - "oh how barbaric" - but really, is it? It's not, it's just that you are completely a byproduct of the mainstream and people around you. Now if you're on a deserted island and there's a child molester...what do you do? Ban them entirely from ever coming back for life (ie: life in prison) or kill them (death penalty). It's not so wrong anymore is it?
And since we're here - here's the 3rd thing I've been pondering lately...they had a women's work movement in the 40s-60s. This is great - and there ARE exceptions, I am just stating a generality here which is what the rule would be. Rules are made for the generality - not the exceptions. So the govt encouraged women to go to work - this has several consequences (1) more govt income since women are working (2) puts kids in the public school system so they can be taught by a govt made curriculum. (3) Now the mother and father have less time with the kids, and less time with each other. What does this encourage? Independence. What happens when you get independence - well you get people thinking for themselves. Now they can, to a varying extent be controlled by what they see, what they hear etc. What do they see and hear? Mainstream media pushing their agenda. On top of that it encourages divorce. What do we see in those years - a massive spike in divorce. Sure there may be other reasons, but it's too coincidental for this forced independence not to be a contributing factor. On top of that divorce for women is rewarded - good chance of alimony and more child support that was was necessary to sustain the same life style as before.
So what's a problem? Good conservative men. What's the epitome of evil as defined by the mainstream media - a good conservative man. They are now encouraging men to get all in their feelings, be emotional, be trans and all this other complete and utter BS.
19 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · Hudson Valley and Catskills, NY · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 26 votes3y
Absolutely horrible idea that would explode the national deficit to an unprecedented level in no time flat, not to even go down the rabbit hole of how it would target the poor and middle class. I know I'd be raising chickens and turning my yard into a farm instantly too, not to mention that it would create an underground system of barter on used goods to evade the tax. Do I need that new TV anymore? Nope. Hmm, can I make all of my clothes last the rest of my life to avoid paying 30% tax? ...Yes. I think so, better stay fit!
- Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes3y
Quote from @Harry McNamara:
Absolutely horrible idea that would explode the national deficit to an unprecedented level in no time flat, not to even go down the rabbit hole of how it would target the poor and middle class. I know I'd be raising chickens and turning my yard into a farm instantly too, not to mention that it would create an underground system of barter on used goods to evade the tax. Do I need that new TV anymore? Nope. Hmm, can I make all of my clothes last the rest of my life to avoid paying 30% tax? ...Yes. I think so, better stay fit!
All great points. Not saying I agree with the bill but a counter argument would be that now that you aren't paying a CPA to file your taxes, what does that save you? You also wouldn't pay any income tax. That puts more cash in your pocket to invest/save. It might make us a bit less wasteful too.
As for the underground system, there will always be illegal ways to skirt taxes, this would just be a new way with the new rules. At least this one puts less garbage in landfills.
There's also a provision in there to cover the taxes for basic necessities, which they define as the cost of living at the poverty line. Basically if you are not a spender, this could help dramatically increase your savings and be a huge tax cut for you. If you are a spender then it could make it much harder to save and ultimately result in a tax increase for you net net.
Again, not saying I advocate for this, I just find the debate fascinating.
- Real Estate Agent · Hudson Valley and Catskills, NY · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 26 votes3y
Most people at or below the poverty line already pay no or negligible taxes, so this would actually act as a huge tax hike on the poorest Americans, not to mention that it would erase other programs that help lower income Americans, like child tax credits.
Not paying my CPA would save me $450, an absolute pittance compared to my annual spending x30%.
This would be an absolute disaster for the economy as spending would collapse at the retail level beyond necessities.
- Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Quote from @Harry McNamara:
Absolutely horrible idea that would explode the national deficit to an unprecedented level in no time flat, not to even go down the rabbit hole of how it would target the poor and middle class. I know I'd be raising chickens and turning my yard into a farm instantly too, not to mention that it would create an underground system of barter on used goods to evade the tax. Do I need that new TV anymore? Nope. Hmm, can I make all of my clothes last the rest of my life to avoid paying 30% tax? ...Yes. I think so, better stay fit!
So let me ask you this - what is it that explodes the national deficit? Not taxing enough? Or wasteful spending? We've seen how successful the government runs it's programs...
As far as targeting the poor and middle class. Do you feel the "upper class" is being targeted now? After all I paid a 25% effective tax rate - due to what? Me simply earning more. I can't directly contribute to a ROTH IRA, I didn't get any stimulus checks, my income phases me out for many losses (they have to be passed forward or simply forgone), the list goes on. I'd be interested as to why or why not you think this is fair/equal.
I tell you what would be equal - a flat tax rate. What would be wrong with that? We each pay the same percentages of our incomes. There's too much social assistance in my opinion - and the mainstream rewards bad decision making consistently. Don't want to work? No problem, here's food stamps, a housing voucher, unemployment assistance, disability etc. Mainstream encourages divorce as well - here's let's actually pay the mom for taking the kids away from the dad, let's require more child support than the child requires etc etc
- Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes3y
Quote from @Jeremy Horton:
Quote from @Harry McNamara:
Absolutely horrible idea that would explode the national deficit to an unprecedented level in no time flat, not to even go down the rabbit hole of how it would target the poor and middle class. I know I'd be raising chickens and turning my yard into a farm instantly too, not to mention that it would create an underground system of barter on used goods to evade the tax. Do I need that new TV anymore? Nope. Hmm, can I make all of my clothes last the rest of my life to avoid paying 30% tax? ...Yes. I think so, better stay fit!
So let me ask you this - what is it that explodes the national deficit? Not taxing enough? Or wasteful spending? We've seen how successful the government runs it's programs...
As far as targeting the poor and middle class. Do you feel the "upper class" is being targeted now? After all I paid a 25% effective tax rate - due to what? Me simply earning more. I can't directly contribute to a ROTH IRA, I didn't get any stimulus checks, my income phases me out for many losses (they have to be passed forward or simply forgone), the list goes on. I'd be interested as to why or why not you think this is fair/equal.
I tell you what would be equal - a flat tax rate. What would be wrong with that? We each pay the same percentages of our incomes. There's too much social assistance in my opinion - and the mainstream rewards bad decision making consistently. Don't want to work? No problem, here's food stamps, a housing voucher, unemployment assistance, disability etc. Mainstream encourages divorce as well - here's let's actually pay the mom for taking the kids away from the dad, let's require more child support than the child requires etc etc
I see you're the #2 Investor Psychology Contributor at the moment! Maybe I should have put this in that category!
- Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes3y
Quote from @Greg H.:
This will never happen. A sales tax would lessen the control the government has over it's citizens of which politicians on both sides would ultimately not be in favor of
100% agree that it won't pass. Biden has already said he would veto it and good luck overcoming that with the current congress. Its also an isolated segment of the House that is in favor so I don't think it will even survive the first vote, but it is an interesting discussion.
- Real Estate Agent · Hudson Valley and Catskills, NY · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 26 votes3y
Quote from @Rich O'Neill:
Quote from @Jeremy Horton:
Quote from @Harry McNamara:
Absolutely horrible idea that would explode the national deficit to an unprecedented level in no time flat, not to even go down the rabbit hole of how it would target the poor and middle class. I know I'd be raising chickens and turning my yard into a farm instantly too, not to mention that it would create an underground system of barter on used goods to evade the tax. Do I need that new TV anymore? Nope. Hmm, can I make all of my clothes last the rest of my life to avoid paying 30% tax? ...Yes. I think so, better stay fit!
So let me ask you this - what is it that explodes the national deficit? Not taxing enough? Or wasteful spending? We've seen how successful the government runs it's programs...
As far as targeting the poor and middle class. Do you feel the "upper class" is being targeted now? After all I paid a 25% effective tax rate - due to what? Me simply earning more. I can't directly contribute to a ROTH IRA, I didn't get any stimulus checks, my income phases me out for many losses (they have to be passed forward or simply forgone), the list goes on. I'd be interested as to why or why not you think this is fair/equal.
I tell you what would be equal - a flat tax rate. What would be wrong with that? We each pay the same percentages of our incomes. There's too much social assistance in my opinion - and the mainstream rewards bad decision making consistently. Don't want to work? No problem, here's food stamps, a housing voucher, unemployment assistance, disability etc. Mainstream encourages divorce as well - here's let's actually pay the mom for taking the kids away from the dad, let's require more child support than the child requires etc etc
I see you're the #2 Investor Psychology Contributor at the moment! Maybe I should have put this in that category!
Haha, I had no idea! Let's get deep man.
- Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Quote from @Rich O'Neill:
Haha that's awesome, I need to take a little pride in that ranking. So here's my take and it really is common sense...
At the end of the day I go back to 2 scenarios -(1) you can dump 20 people on abandoned island somewhere or (2) go back to "caveman" days and separate but also true, no matter what it comes to eventually violence will be the end to force something. Study the actions/thoughts/emotions of those people and that will tell you exactly what you need to know and how the world functions at it's base instinctual level. The farther you get from this base level the more problems you have.
You don't gather yourself food - you go hungry. Someone has a legitimate broken leg, you take care of them and give them a separate task to do. I can tell you for a fact all this LGBTQ, gay, feminist, BLM, feeling hurt BS goes out the window with a quickness. That kind of stuff only exists in a society SO privileged that everyone's basic needs (plus lots more) and completely taken care of. You get this sense of entitlement when people don't have to work for their basic needs so they think they deserve more than what they are given. On top of that it creates absolute degeneracy in society because there are no punishment's for people actions because people are more worried about their feelings than surviving.Child molester? Rapist? Murderer? Chop their head off in public. I bet the next person thinks their actions through a little better. Some may say - "oh how barbaric" - but really, is it? It's not, it's just that you are completely a byproduct of the mainstream and people around you. Now if you're on a deserted island and there's a child molester...what do you do? Ban them entirely from ever coming back for life (ie: life in prison) or kill them (death penalty). It's not so wrong anymore is it?
And since we're here - here's the 3rd thing I've been pondering lately...they had a women's work movement in the 40s-60s. This is great - and there ARE exceptions, I am just stating a generality here which is what the rule would be. Rules are made for the generality - not the exceptions. So the govt encouraged women to go to work - this has several consequences (1) more govt income since women are working (2) puts kids in the public school system so they can be taught by a govt made curriculum. (3) Now the mother and father have less time with the kids, and less time with each other. What does this encourage? Independence. What happens when you get independence - well you get people thinking for themselves. Now they can, to a varying extent be controlled by what they see, what they hear etc. What do they see and hear? Mainstream media pushing their agenda. On top of that it encourages divorce. What do we see in those years - a massive spike in divorce. Sure there may be other reasons, but it's too coincidental for this forced independence not to be a contributing factor. On top of that divorce for women is rewarded - good chance of alimony and more child support that was was necessary to sustain the same life style as before.
So what's a problem? Good conservative men. What's the epitome of evil as defined by the mainstream media - a good conservative man. They are now encouraging men to get all in their feelings, be emotional, be trans and all this other complete and utter BS.
- Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
- Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes3y
Quote from @Jeremy Horton:
Quote from @Rich O'Neill:
Haha that's awesome, I need to take a little pride in that ranking. So here's my take and it really is common sense...
At the end of the day I go back to 2 scenarios -(1) you can dump 20 people on abandoned island somewhere or (2) go back to "caveman" days and separate but also true, no matter what it comes to eventually violence will be the end to force something. Study the actions/thoughts/emotions of those people and that will tell you exactly what you need to know and how the world functions at it's base instinctual level. The farther you get from this base level the more problems you have.
You don't gather yourself food - you go hungry. Someone has a legitimate broken leg, you take care of them and give them a separate task to do. I can tell you for a fact all this LGBTQ, gay, feminist, BLM, feeling hurt BS goes out the window with a quickness. That kind of stuff only exists in a society SO privileged that everyone's basic needs (plus lots more) and completely taken care of. You get this sense of entitlement when people don't have to work for their basic needs so they think they deserve more than what they are given. On top of that it creates absolute degeneracy in society because there are no punishment's for people actions because people are more worried about their feelings than surviving.Child molester? Rapist? Murderer? Chop their head off in public. I bet the next person thinks their actions through a little better. Some may say - "oh how barbaric" - but really, is it? It's not, it's just that you are completely a byproduct of the mainstream and people around you. Now if you're on a deserted island and there's a child molester...what do you do? Ban them entirely from ever coming back for life (ie: life in prison) or kill them (death penalty). It's not so wrong anymore is it?
And since we're here - here's the 3rd thing I've been pondering lately...they had a women's work movement in the 40s-60s. This is great - and there ARE exceptions, I am just stating a generality here which is what the rule would be. Rules are made for the generality - not the exceptions. So the govt encouraged women to go to work - this has several consequences (1) more govt income since women are working (2) puts kids in the public school system so they can be taught by a govt made curriculum. (3) Now the mother and father have less time with the kids, and less time with each other. What does this encourage? Independence. What happens when you get independence - well you get people thinking for themselves. Now they can, to a varying extent be controlled by what they see, what they hear etc. What do they see and hear? Mainstream media pushing their agenda. On top of that it encourages divorce. What do we see in those years - a massive spike in divorce. Sure there may be other reasons, but it's too coincidental for this forced independence not to be a contributing factor. On top of that divorce for women is rewarded - good chance of alimony and more child support that was was necessary to sustain the same life style as before.
So what's a problem? Good conservative men. What's the epitome of evil as defined by the mainstream media - a good conservative man. They are now encouraging men to get all in their feelings, be emotional, be trans and all this other complete and utter BS.
Well thought out response. I am curious if that is a popular opinion in this circle.
- Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 728 posts · 596 votes3y
@Rich O'Neill
It would be nice to dream, but that is all it is. Love to see the IRS agents on the unemployment line. Also the current system is a disaster. Even if you try to comply, 5 accountants will give 5 different values as the system is so complex as to be broken. But it will never happen as the politicians use the tax code for their personal agendas.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes3y
@Rich O'Neill
So would buying a home have the tax on it?
I am not in favor of it but I believe the system needs an overhaul and one I am actually in favor of that would cause pain for me is the depreciation and tax benefits on real estate and 1031. I do believe those should be adjusted -
Maybe not eliminated but have caps.
In a real estate group I am sure that goes over like a fart in church but I know the super wealthy are the ones who are saving tens of millions per year from it.
7e investments53 Reviews - Member since 2020 · 88 posts · 33 votes3ySo you're a victim, huh? Typical! Cry me a river.
Quote from @Jeremy Horton:
Quote from @Rich O'Neill:
Haha that's awesome, I need to take a little pride in that ranking. So here's my take and it really is common sense...
At the end of the day I go back to 2 scenarios -(1) you can dump 20 people on abandoned island somewhere or (2) go back to "caveman" days and separate but also true, no matter what it comes to eventually violence will be the end to force something. Study the actions/thoughts/emotions of those people and that will tell you exactly what you need to know and how the world functions at it's base instinctual level. The farther you get from this base level the more problems you have.
You don't gather yourself food - you go hungry. Someone has a legitimate broken leg, you take care of them and give them a separate task to do. I can tell you for a fact all this LGBTQ, gay, feminist, BLM, feeling hurt BS goes out the window with a quickness. That kind of stuff only exists in a society SO privileged that everyone's basic needs (plus lots more) and completely taken care of. You get this sense of entitlement when people don't have to work for their basic needs so they think they deserve more than what they are given. On top of that it creates absolute degeneracy in society because there are no punishment's for people actions because people are more worried about their feelings than surviving.Child molester? Rapist? Murderer? Chop their head off in public. I bet the next person thinks their actions through a little better. Some may say - "oh how barbaric" - but really, is it? It's not, it's just that you are completely a byproduct of the mainstream and people around you. Now if you're on a deserted island and there's a child molester...what do you do? Ban them entirely from ever coming back for life (ie: life in prison) or kill them (death penalty). It's not so wrong anymore is it?
And since we're here - here's the 3rd thing I've been pondering lately...they had a women's work movement in the 40s-60s. This is great - and there ARE exceptions, I am just stating a generality here which is what the rule would be. Rules are made for the generality - not the exceptions. So the govt encouraged women to go to work - this has several consequences (1) more govt income since women are working (2) puts kids in the public school system so they can be taught by a govt made curriculum. (3) Now the mother and father have less time with the kids, and less time with each other. What does this encourage? Independence. What happens when you get independence - well you get people thinking for themselves. Now they can, to a varying extent be controlled by what they see, what they hear etc. What do they see and hear? Mainstream media pushing their agenda. On top of that it encourages divorce. What do we see in those years - a massive spike in divorce. Sure there may be other reasons, but it's too coincidental for this forced independence not to be a contributing factor. On top of that divorce for women is rewarded - good chance of alimony and more child support that was was necessary to sustain the same life style as before.
So what's a problem? Good conservative men. What's the epitome of evil as defined by the mainstream media - a good conservative man. They are now encouraging men to get all in their feelings, be emotional, be trans and all this other complete and utter BS.
- Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Where exactly did you read the word victim? Exactly. Try again.
Your post to vote ratio is also garbage. Wonder why?
- Member since 2020 · 88 posts · 33 votes3yOf course, you don't get it. You never will. Smh.
Quote from @Jeremy Horton:
Where exactly did you read the word victim? Exactly. Try again.
Your post to vote ratio is also garbage. Wonder why?
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
@Jeremy Horton kinda wandering a little far afield from real estate aren't we? And every one of the statements you posit as facts or best practices are, well...let us say highly debatable? I mean, most people would say that high levels of public education are one of the biggest advantages a country can have but hey, you do you.
What you are proposing as a consumption tax is essentially the VAT, which a lot of European countries have. Haven't heard too many people describe the eurozone as a "low tax" area. The US pays 24% of its GDP in taxes, well below the 34% average of all other OECD countries (tax policy center.org)
As for a flat tax, the surface simplicity appeals to some people but the world isn't simple. Every so often a candidate comes on--usually republican but not always--with this as an idea and routinely gets hammered even in the primaries. Steve Forbes comes to mind and I think Andrew Yang had something similar proposed. I think you are going to have to face the fact that very few people of either party really want this.
And real estate gets the most favored tax treatment of all right now, so your complaints on that score ring a little hollow. You are paying 25% with some carryover benefits? I have a river you can cry in...
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
@Rich O'Neill on a hopefully lighter note there was a line about VAT/national sales tax that made the rounds last time this got a push: "it will pass as soon as liberals realize it is a cash machine and conservatives realize it is regressive."
I will absolutely agree with you the current system makes little to no sense :)
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes3y
The progressive income tax will never go away. It's simple math...there are significantly fewer voters in the top half of the progressive tax than in the bottom half.
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