Seeking HOA Advice and/or attorney in Osceola County FL

Seeking HOA Advice and/or attorney in Osceola County FL

Member since 2020 · 8 posts · 0 votes

Hi all,

This is complicated and I'm not sure I understand it myself. I bought a STR condo in September in Kissimmee with a complex that has it's own HOA. I received a letter from a law office about a month after closing advising that I was responsible for past due HOA fees and legal fees for a separate master HOA association that wasn't disclosed prior to my purchase. When I went to my title company, they advised that there was no lien for those fees and they would be the responsibility of the seller. But I received another letter from the law office, changing the amounts owed to the HOA fees starting when I bought the condo plus the legal fees. I've never received any letters, paperwork or statements from the actual Master HOA (Westside Master, if anyone is familiar with them). I'm not sure I understand how I can owe legal fees when I haven't been billed for anything. I've asked the complex HOA for clarification and got the following email - I'm quoting directly but removing identifying names

"[MasterHOA] asserts its status as a Master Association for individual owners at [complex] and believes it is entitled to levy charges on [complex] owners for the benefits of [MasterHOA] membership, despite not currently providing any services. The management company representing [MasterHOA], [Regional HOA] recently distributed information containing a budget that includes an assessment for managing Cable/Phone services. However, there is no [MasterHOA] contractual relationship between the contract between [complex HOA] and Hotwire regarding these services. This situation has persisted since inception. [MasterHOA] had initially expected the [complex HOA] to collect assessments from [complex] owners and remit the payments to the association. The [complex HOA] clarified that it is not responsible for collecting assessments on behalf of another association—in this case, [MasterHOA]. [MasterHOA], like all Homeowners Associations in Florida, is required to comply with OFFICIAL RECORDS 720.303(4)(b), Florida Statute. This statute outlines the requirements for communicating with owners about budgets, elections, meetings, contact information, board members, and related matters. Historically, [MasterHOA] has not fulfilled these obligations; however, individual owners can now have the opportunity to communicate directly with [MasterHOA]'s management regarding their concerns. Each owner must decide whether to pay [MasterHOA] and determine how best to engage with the association."

And no, I never received any budget or assessment from the Regional HOA. I've never received information about meetings, board members, etc. from the Master HOA. I sent a certified letter to the attorney asking for documentation and received an email reply reiterating the original claim that I owed them legal fees on top of the HOA fees.

Can someone refer me to a good attorney with HOA experience who'd be willing to book a consultation and help me unravel this?

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2mo
    Who did you use for your closing attorney? Did you use an attorney? If so try them first. You absolutely should have received as part of the closing package all the hoa documents as it’s required by law.
    7e investments53 Reviews
    • Barbara Von PagelPro Member
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 8 posts · 0 votes
      2mo
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Who did you use for your closing attorney? Did you use an attorney? If so try them first. You absolutely should have received as part of the closing package all the hoa documents as it’s required by law.

       No closing attorney, not required in Florida

  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2mo

    Yeah, one HOA is bad enough, but having it within a Master HOA is a real joy. I've managed properties in such a situation, with the Master HOA consisting of several thousand units, with multiple sub HOA's within. Do, you have TWO Boards (in theory) to deal with, and as usual, the Board Members don't care/don't know how to work effectively together.

    If I understand you correctly, the "Management Company", a third party, is representing BOTH HOA's? That sounds very Bad. The fact the Master is "not currently providing any services" is unclear, is that NO services of any kind, or are you just referring to the cable/phone services?

    I am not an authority on Florida HOA laws, but it is common in many locales that if there are "past due" HOA fees at property transfer, they can bill the new owner for the past 6 months of unpaid charges. You would need to look at local law on that aspect.

    Typically, the Master HOA bills once, annually for its fees, while the sub HOA bills monthly, so it is not terribly uncommon for sellers to "forget" about the Master HOA, particularly if they have not informed BOTH HOA's of changes in mailing address for those billings.

    Indeed, each HOA, in theory, should be following the State laws for notices, budgets, etc., but, as I just stated, if mailing/contact info is not updated timely by the individual unit owners, it is easy to get well behind on payment, which will automatically get moved to legal at a certain point, with legal fills billed monthly. It's just not their fault if they do not have current contact info.

    You definitely need to find an attorney very familiar with the dual HOA issues to sort it out. And it will be expensive.

    Once you do get it sorted, and possibly much sooner, you need to have a discussion with, probably a different attorney, regarding the purchase transaction, including disclosures, and figure out just who knew what, and when. Any competent agent with experience within the Master HOA area should have known, and known where to make a positive determination of the facts before you ever closed the transaction. Maybe you can luck out and their E&O insurance will pick up the tab.

    One final thought, do YOU have, in hand, a copy of the HOA docs for your sub HOA? Usually, they will reference the Master, since the Master typically is in place first. If it is referenced there, multiple people missed taking note of it and asking appropriate questions.

    • Barbara Von PagelPro Member
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 8 posts · 0 votes
      2mo
      Quote from @Richard F.:

      Yeah, one HOA is bad enough, but having it within a Master HOA is a real joy. I've managed properties in such a situation, with the Master HOA consisting of several thousand units, with multiple sub HOA's within. Do, you have TWO Boards (in theory) to deal with, and as usual, the Board Members don't care/don't know how to work effectively together.

      If I understand you correctly, the "Management Company", a third party, is representing BOTH HOA's? That sounds very Bad. The fact the Master is "not currently providing any services" is unclear, is that NO services of any kind, or are you just referring to the cable/phone services?

      I am not an authority on Florida HOA laws, but it is common in many locales that if there are "past due" HOA fees at property transfer, they can bill the new owner for the past 6 months of unpaid charges. You would need to look at local law on that aspect.

      Typically, the Master HOA bills once, annually for its fees, while the sub HOA bills monthly, so it is not terribly uncommon for sellers to "forget" about the Master HOA, particularly if they have not informed BOTH HOA's of changes in mailing address for those billings.

      Indeed, each HOA, in theory, should be following the State laws for notices, budgets, etc., but, as I just stated, if mailing/contact info is not updated timely by the individual unit owners, it is easy to get well behind on payment, which will automatically get moved to legal at a certain point, with legal fills billed monthly. It's just not their fault if they do not have current contact info.

      You definitely need to find an attorney very familiar with the dual HOA issues to sort it out. And it will be expensive.

      Once you do get it sorted, and possibly much sooner, you need to have a discussion with, probably a different attorney, regarding the purchase transaction, including disclosures, and figure out just who knew what, and when. Any competent agent with experience within the Master HOA area should have known, and known where to make a positive determination of the facts before you ever closed the transaction. Maybe you can luck out and their E&O insurance will pick up the tab.

      One final thought, do YOU have, in hand, a copy of the HOA docs for your sub HOA? Usually, they will reference the Master, since the Master typically is in place first. If it is referenced there, multiple people missed taking note of it and asking appropriate questions.


      It gets further complicated with a new HOA taking over about 6 months before I bought the condo. Rather than continue with details, I'll just keep asking if anyone can refer me to a lawyer who can help. Thanks for the input.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2mo
    Howard law group
    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    2mo
    Quote from @Barbara Von Pagel:

    Hi all,

    This is complicated and I'm not sure I understand it myself. I bought a STR condo in September in Kissimmee with a complex that has it's own HOA. I received a letter from a law office about a month after closing advising that I was responsible for past due HOA fees and legal fees for a separate master HOA association that wasn't disclosed prior to my purchase. When I went to my title company, they advised that there was no lien for those fees and they would be the responsibility of the seller. But I received another letter from the law office, changing the amounts owed to the HOA fees starting when I bought the condo plus the legal fees. I've never received any letters, paperwork or statements from the actual Master HOA (Westside Master, if anyone is familiar with them). I'm not sure I understand how I can owe legal fees when I haven't been billed for anything. I've asked the complex HOA for clarification and got the following email - I'm quoting directly but removing identifying names

    "[MasterHOA] asserts its status as a Master Association for individual owners at [complex] and believes it is entitled to levy charges on [complex] owners for the benefits of [MasterHOA] membership, despite not currently providing any services. The management company representing [MasterHOA], [Regional HOA] recently distributed information containing a budget that includes an assessment for managing Cable/Phone services. However, there is no [MasterHOA] contractual relationship between the contract between [complex HOA] and Hotwire regarding these services. This situation has persisted since inception. [MasterHOA] had initially expected the [complex HOA] to collect assessments from [complex] owners and remit the payments to the association. The [complex HOA] clarified that it is not responsible for collecting assessments on behalf of another association—in this case, [MasterHOA]. [MasterHOA], like all Homeowners Associations in Florida, is required to comply with OFFICIAL RECORDS 720.303(4)(b), Florida Statute. This statute outlines the requirements for communicating with owners about budgets, elections, meetings, contact information, board members, and related matters. Historically, [MasterHOA] has not fulfilled these obligations; however, individual owners can now have the opportunity to communicate directly with [MasterHOA]'s management regarding their concerns. Each owner must decide whether to pay [MasterHOA] and determine how best to engage with the association."

    And no, I never received any budget or assessment from the Regional HOA. I've never received information about meetings, board members, etc. from the Master HOA. I sent a certified letter to the attorney asking for documentation and received an email reply reiterating the original claim that I owed them legal fees on top of the HOA fees.

    Can someone refer me to a good attorney with HOA experience who'd be willing to book a consultation and help me unravel this?

    Are you sure that the “master” HOA is REAL and not someone trying a scam targeting new buyers? 
    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
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