Letter's to find Off Market Properties

Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes

I am new to this amazing website, so please let me know if I need to post this in a different area. I want to find off-market properties. I have created the attached letter using Brandon Turner's post from 2016. I am sure there is much more information on what works for getting potential sellers to contact you back. For the experienced people who do this for a living, what have you found that works? How often should I be sending out letters/postcards to these people? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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John O'LearyPro Member

Lender · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2021 · 737 posts · 412 votes

Direct mail works, but you typically need to hit them 3-5 times or be following up with cold calling. Too many new wholesalers mail them once and give up. What lists are you targeting plays a large roll also.

[email protected]800-663-4122

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John O'LearyPro Member
Lender · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2021 · 737 posts · 412 votes
2y
Direct mail works, but you typically need to hit them 3-5 times or be following up with cold calling. Too many new wholesalers mail them once and give up. What lists are you targeting plays a large roll also.
[email protected]800-663-4122
4 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Thank you for replying John. I am only going after multi-family properties that have yet to sell since 2020.
0 Reply
Nathan Harden
Real Estate Agent · Puyallup, WA · Member since 2022 · 551 posts · 379 votes
2y
The hardest part about direct mail is following up. It's hard to take money out of your pocket to send out mailers when the last 6 batches have only gotten you crickets.
It's one of those things that you just have to keep on keepin on because at the end of the day, it only takes one seller to change your life.
3 Reply
John K.
Lender · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2017 · 306 posts · 122 votes
2y
Hi Jonathan, this looks good to me--It'd be great to have you follow up with your results in a couple months!
John
1 Reply
David Ramirez
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Hey @Jonathan Krauser,
I didn't have success with direct mail. After doing it for 7 months I realized that the problem wasn't my approach or the letter itself it was more the competition in my market. The conversion rate on direct mail is slow but when you are in a demanding market it's slower and the cash cycle could take over a year.

I have seen people having success with direct mail outside metropolitan cities and even in rural areas because there are not many investors fighting for the same deal.

Best of luck!
2 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Quote from @Nathan Harden:

The hardest part about direct mail is following up. It's hard to take money out of your pocket to send out mailers when the last 6 batches have only gotten you crickets.
It's one of those things that you just have to keep on keepin on because at the end of the day, it only takes one seller to change your life.
I wasn't expecting to hear from anyone until I sent out letters for a year. I was also going to send out postcards. I want to catch them at the right time.
0 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Quote from @John K.:

Hi Jonathan, this looks good to me--It'd be great to have you follow up with your results in a couple months!
John
I would be glad to do that.
0 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Quote from @John O'Leary:

Direct mail works, but you typically need to hit them 3-5 times or be following up with cold calling. Too many new wholesalers mail them once and give up. What lists are you targeting plays a large roll also.
This is also my belief. I expect it to be similar to real estate farming. We do not see results until we consistently do the mail-outs for a couple of years.
0 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Quote from @John O'Leary:

Direct mail works, but you typically need to hit them 3-5 times or be following up with cold calling. Too many new wholesalers mail them once and give up. What lists are you targeting plays a large roll also.
That sounds like a good plan. Thank you.
0 Reply
Gustavo Munoz Castro
Specialist · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 268 posts · 80 votes
2y
Don't discard also calling your target list. Cannot hurt to make some calls and see what happens. This has several advantages:
1) Much less passive. You get your question/offer to your target much faster.
2) Much faster. A single person can reach out to 100-200 owners a day with a single line dialer, many more with a multiline like Mojo Dialer.
3) Once you have a system in place, you can hire a VA to help you cold call and just hand off the responsive leads to you (they won't really hand off appointments).
HTH
2 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @John O'Leary:

Direct mail works, but you typically need to hit them 3-5 times or be following up with cold calling. Too many new wholesalers mail them once and give up. What lists are you targeting plays a large roll also.
Everyone... please focus... (I am getting pretty tired myself sounding like a broken record).
Direct mail marketing works SO poorly, you need to send THOUSANDS of mailers, AND you need to send these thousands of mailers SEVERAL times to get a deal.
So:
BECAUSE the performance is SO low you need to send thousands to COMPENSATE for its poor performance AND hit the receivers several times BECAUSE the performance is so low to get a deal.
Conclusion: "Direct mail marketing works"
WHAT THE HECK?!
People, stop. By you all not thinking about what you are saying, this absolute nonsense spreads like a virus reinforcing the belief that because everyone regurgitates the same wrong stuff, it must be true. PLEASE stop this.
Let's end this false notion right here and now. Let's all make a vow to really think, analyze, verify before we dress up nonsense as "facts" or "data".
Imagine buying a car from a car brand that ALWAYS breaks down.
You are telling others: The car works fine. You just need to bring it in continuously every other day for repairs, to keep fixing the stuff that constantly breaks, to make it run, so because the car is always being fixed (because it always breaks), my conclusion is the car works, and so the car brand is A-Okay.
That doesn't make any sense, does it?
Please stop saying DMM works. If it did work, why are 90%+ of the people doing DMM struggling?
Why isn't everyone doing DMM a multi-millionaire yet?
NO it doesn't work.
Can you get a deal from it? Yes, it is absolutely possible. So is winning the lotto. That doesn't mean "buying lotto works". No one is debating whether or not it is POSSIBLE to get a deal doing DMM. But claiming it "works" is a HUGE stretch.
It is like saying "if it doesn't;t work, then you didn;t do it enough". Do more.
When something doesn't;t work you don't do more to make it work. Come on people!
<<Space shuttle blows up>>
Houston: " Pick 7 more astronauts, put them in that rocket and send an other one up.
<<Shuttle blows up>>
Houston: "Find me 7 more astronauts"
<<Shuttle blows up>>
It's ok, stay consistent. One of them HAS to reach orbit.
I mean... Do I really need to give more examples?
I can go on.
Hope you understand my point. Not an attack on you. Just frustrated with how difficult it is for people to adopt intelligence and common sense, backed by data and evidence, yet it is effortless for people to religiously embrace absolute NONSENSE.

0 Reply
John O'LearyPro Member
Lender · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2021 · 737 posts · 412 votes
2y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden: This is amusing. It seems like you're promoting a program or something. However, I'm just addressing someone's question. Dismissing any marketing strategy simply because it doesn't align with your business model is unreasonable. I have a close friend who successfully flipped a self-storage facility, making nearly a million on one project, solely through direct mail. Various factors come into play with marketing, and what works for one business may not work for another. The reality is, cold calling, direct mail, PPC/SEO, referrals, and strategic partnerships all have the potential to be effective.

Quote from @John O'Leary:

Direct mail works, but you typically need to hit them 3-5 times or be following up with cold calling. Too many new wholesalers mail them once and give up. What lists are you targeting plays a large roll also.
Everyone... please focus... (I am getting pretty tired myself sounding like a broken record).
Direct mail marketing works SO poorly, you need to send THOUSANDS of mailers, AND you need to send these thousands of mailers SEVERAL times to get a deal.
So:
BECAUSE the performance is SO low you need to send thousands to COMPENSATE for its poor performance AND hit the receivers several times BECAUSE the performance is so low to get a deal.
Conclusion: "Direct mail marketing works"
WHAT THE HECK?!
People, stop. By you all not thinking about what you are saying, this absolute nonsense spreads like a virus reinforcing the belief that because everyone regurgitates the same wrong stuff, it must be true. PLEASE stop this.
Let's end this false notion right here and now. Let's all make a vow to really think, analyze, verify before we dress up nonsense as "facts" or "data".
Imagine buying a car from a car brand that ALWAYS breaks down.
You are telling others: The car works fine. You just need to bring it in continuously every other day for repairs, to keep fixing the stuff that constantly breaks, to make it run, so because the car is always being fixed (because it always breaks), my conclusion is the car works, and so the car brand is A-Okay.
That doesn't make any sense, does it?
Please stop saying DMM works. If it did work, why are 90%+ of the people doing DMM struggling?
Why isn't everyone doing DMM a multi-millionaire yet?
NO it doesn't work.
Can you get a deal from it? Yes, it is absolutely possible. So is winning the lotto. That doesn't mean "buying lotto works". No one is debating whether or not it is POSSIBLE to get a deal doing DMM. But claiming it "works" is a HUGE stretch.
It is like saying "if it doesn't;t work, then you didn;t do it enough". Do more.
When something doesn't;t work you don't do more to make it work. Come on people!
<>
Houston: " Pick 7 more astronauts, put them in that rocket and send an other one up.
<>
Houston: "Find me 7 more astronauts"
<>
It's ok, stay consistent. One of them HAS to reach orbit.
I mean... Do I really need to give more examples?
I can go on.
Hope you understand my point. Not an attack on you. Just frustrated with how difficult it is for people to adopt intelligence and common sense, backed by data and evidence, yet it is effortless for people to religiously embrace absolute NONSENSE.

[email protected]800-663-4122
0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
No man, and do me a favor.
Pretend for a moment I am not against you. I am not trying to grill you, I am trying to help you and others reading this.
Really let go of any reservations and emotions you have reading my message. I admit I am very direct and blunt. I don't "do" emotions when writing my replies. Nothing against you or anyone.
That said, please try to understand what I am saying.
I am not promoting anything. I am giving free value, and knowledge based on data. The fact that I believe so much in what I am teaching that I offer a service for it, backed by data has nothing to do with it.
Second.
This has nothing to do with "aligning with MY/YOUR/HIS/HER/THEIR business model". This has to do with "is the strategy going to give you the success you are after". It's not about aligning with a business model. This is about are you going to get motivated seller leads reliably, consistently, and predictably. Makes sense right?
DMM success rate is less than 0.03%.
Fact.
So you telling others that "it works" while thousands are trying it while 90% of the people trying it fail.
You are pushing opinions, disguised as facts to others and that is not only dangerous, it is wrong and misleading. That is why I responded to your post.
So what you should consider is this:
Stop being emotional. Stop clinging to an ego. Stop trying to be right. Remove all of that and mind the data. I can prove to you that you are wrong.,
Would you run through a minefield when you have a 0.03% of surviving?
Wait don't answer yet... Would you run through a minefield when you have a 99.97% of blowing up to smithereens?
No, right?
Would you buy a car where every 3000 times you turn the key it only starts once?
No right?
Does the car work? Well, it starts right? (every 3000 times you turn the key)
No right?
There is absolutely no difference between these analogies and what we are talking about above.
I repeat. Remove ego. Remove the desire to be right.Be able to question your opinions and verify them using actual data, not ego, or the desire to be right. Not many can do this, but if you can make yourself do this, I promise you, success will follow far more reliably.
I am not defending, my opinions because they are mine. I am defining them with data, logic and common sense. Have you noticed that? I give you analogies, and explanations, I even give you statistically measurable numbers and data to back it up. All I see other people respond to this is with mere opinions, jabs, insults and anger.
Just, only, and simply, look at what is actually in front of you and draw conclusions from that.
Once you manage to do that you will realize that I am actually helping you. Your ego just doesn't allow to see that. And that is too bad.
The fact that you had to mention that I am offering a service and I am promoting it, is quite evident, your ego was bruised and you retaliated offensively. No need for that,. Just look at my data and good luck man.
1 Reply
Hector Perez
Flipper/Rehabber · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 75 votes
2y
Direct mail marketing works great for me, and I have never stopped in over 10 years of doing it consistently, and I have closed many deals from SFR, notes, land and commercial properties

yes, you can do PPC or SEO, but you can spend thousands of dollars too, and no deals.

Basically you need to know what you are doing in DM or Online for it to work, otherwise, you will spend thousands of dollars without success

@Jonathan Krauser. The letter looks good. Good Luck
1 Reply
Hector Perez
Flipper/Rehabber · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 75 votes
2y
@Jonathan Krauser
After reading the letter for a second time, I would recommend changing the following
here is my two cents.
In the second paragraph where it says "I will also pay cash" be careful with that statement. If you are targeting small multifamily properties, that statement can be true, but if you are targeting larger units, the chances of paying cash are very small to none, as many people will buy it using banks and a mix of syndication, so savvy investors will ignore your letter
The PS section where says " or if they have tenants in the property." This is what I typically use for my SFR direct mail campaign to landlords. but if you are targeting multifamily more likely they will have tenants in place, so that statement is not as powerful for your audience as it is for SFR landlords, that sometimes is hard to sell a property with Tenants in place
I hope that helps a bit
2 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Hector Perez:

Direct mail marketing works great for me, and I have never stopped in over 10 years of doing it consistently, and I have closed many deals from SFR, notes, land and commercial properties

yes, you can do PPC or SEO, but you can spend thousands of dollars too, and no deals.

Basically you need to know what you are doing in DM or Online for it to work, otherwise, you will spend thousands of dollars without success

@Jonathan Krauser. The letter looks good. Good Luck
Hopefully this message to you Hector helps you grow. I will be blunt so hold on tight.
"DMM has worked great for me",
What exactly do you mean by " it works for me" and what do you mean by "it works great". Quantify this for me.
1% success rate? This means every 100 mailers you send you get one deal.
0.1% success rate? This means every 1000 mailers you send you make one deal.
0.01% success rate? You need to send 10,000 mailers to get one deal.
And you have been doing it for 10 years... Why even mention this as this has nothing to do with anything.
I have been doing this for just 6 and I get more leads for free than you get chasing after them paying a fortune. But alas this is not about me or SEO.
Allow me to make my point.
Consider exhibit A: some actual data/numbers
All free, all motivated, all begging me to make them a cash offer, all 100% free.
So tell me again, What does "it works great for me" truly mean? It's quite objective right? So what you are doing is misleading people. What you call "works great for me", to me is quite low performance.
So let's agree from now on to never again use mere opinion or baseless claims as a substitution for data. Agreed? Good!
Now:
You can spend thousands of dollars on SEO and PPC and still make no deals. Yup! You can also die in a car accident, and/or you can also NOT die in a car accident. Are you saying, we should not drive cars and just walk everywhere?
Yes you can spend thousands on PPC and SEO and make no deals, but you can also spend thousands on PPC and make a TON of deals. So?! Your point?! That what you said makes absolutely no sense.
Are you saying DMM is acceptable because other methods CAN fail too? That is no reason to do DMM, what the hell?! Your conclusions are drawn out of thin air.

Let's run this experiment:
Step 1:
How many of you doing DMM are actually successful (RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY? Write that number down, call it "X"
Step 2:
Now, How many of you are doing DMM and get NOTHING out of it (other than a bunch of angry people threatening you?) Write THAT number down, call it Y
Step 3:
Compare those two numbers.
Hector be very honest for a second. Compare the numbers. There will be a HUGE difference between "X" and "Y". I am willing to bet that X is a couple of orders of magnitudes larger than Y.
My question to you is this. Can you be man enough to admit this?
If yes, then there you have it. If it "worked" there would be more success than failures, but there are FAR more failures than successes, so how can you be ok with telling people or advising people to do it when you know DARN well that every 1000 people you tell to do it, 999 will fail. Bet you don't refund them when they fail, do you? I bet that if you HAD to refund the failures you would absolutely not teach people this stuff. Right? Am I right? huh? ;) ;)
Easy for all you gurus and coaches to say and make all sorts of claims without accountability, but if you were to be held accountable you wouldn't say these things. Most gurus (not you) think that the louder you bark the more people will listen, but none show data, proof, or evidence. WHY is that?!
Everyone is so fast to respond to questions, but no one, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU shows ANY evidence, proof or data backing up said claims, WHAT-SO-EVER!
Everyone just talks a strong talk. But that's all they do.
Here is what you are teaching others:
1. Perform a ton of research on how to generate leads.

2. Listen to podcasts on your way to work.

3. Question the meaning of life, listening to, and
dissecting all that information.

4. Find A list, Filter That List, Buy that List, Buy stamps, Buy mailers.

5. Handwrite 5000 letters.

6. Include a pen inside the envelope for “lumpy mail”.

7. Send mailers.

8. Experience a short-lived feeling of accomplishment.

9. Followed by an intense sense of depression and shock upon receiving a ton of angry calls from said mailers.

10. Get a ton of returned mailers.

11. Skip trace these addresses.

12. Pay for a new set of envelopes mailers and stamps.

13. Resend mailers.

14. Experience another short-lived feeling of hopefulness.

15. Followed by an intense sense of depression and shock upon receiving a ton more angry calls from said mailers.

16. Listen to more podcasts.

17. Get a “AHA!” moment when discovering different color mailers, envelopes, and stamps.

18. Research what mailer or letter works best. (yellow, blue, handwritten, scribbles).

19. Slap a unique tracking phone number on each mailer design.

20. Spend another fortune sending mailers, again.

21. Get yelled at, again.

22. Remove people from the list that demand it, again.

23. Receive a bunch of returned mailers, again.

24. Spend another fortune to skip trace and resend the new mailers… again.

25. Subscribe to your favorite real estate investing forum and ask people what you are doing wrong.

26. Try hard to make sense of their response: “If all this is not working for you, it means you didn’t do it enough, do more (of what obviously is not working), and stay consistent”.

27. Get depressed.

28. Get yourself together.

29. Do it all over again.
30. If it doesn't work, keep telling yourself that it works, so do more, more and more.
31. If it STILL doesn't work, in that case... DO MORE!! Stay consistent.
32. If it still doesn't work, remember how many people on Biggerpockets said "it works for me", so DO MORE.
"works great", Really dude?
Here is what I am teaching others.
You can't target motivated sellers. It is not possible. When you need something you take it upon yourself to find the solution to your problem. You resort to the internet. You don't look through your mail hoping someone sent you a DMM piece on how to solve your problem. You don't go through your text messages hoping a random stranger sent you a text coincidentally with the exact solution you need, you don't go to the library, you don't open a newspaper, you don't call your mom or your neighbor. You whip up your phone and go to GOOGLE!

Motivated sellers find you. YOU don't find THEM.

Which of the 2 makes more sense?

To think you have been doing all these 29+ steps for 10 years and you proudly say it out loud, as if it were a good thing? It is not!!
You and I obviously think very differently. But hey keep doing your 29 steps. That's on you. But I wouldn't tell others to do it, there are far better and easier ways.
Work smarter, not harder.
0 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Hector Perez:

Direct mail marketing works great for me, and I have never stopped in over 10 years of doing it consistently, and I have closed many deals from SFR, notes, land and commercial properties

yes, you can do PPC or SEO, but you can spend thousands of dollars too, and no deals.

Basically you need to know what you are doing in DM or Online for it to work, otherwise, you will spend thousands of dollars without success

@Jonathan Krauser. The letter looks good. Good Luck
Hopefully this message to you Hector helps you grow. I will be blunt so hold on tight.
"DMM has worked great for me",
What exactly do you mean by " it works for me" and what do you mean by "it works great". Quantify this for me.
1% success rate? This means every 100 mailers you send you get one deal.
0.1% success rate? This means every 1000 mailers you send you make one deal.
0.01% success rate? You need to send 10,000 mailers to get one deal.
And you have been doing it for 10 years... Why even mention this as this has nothing to do with anything.
I have been doing this for just 6 and I get more leads for free than you get chasing after them paying a fortune. But alas this is not about me or SEO.
Allow me to make my point.
Consider exhibit A: some actual data/numbers
All free, all motivated, all begging me to make them a cash offer, all 100% free.
So tell me again, What does "it works great for me" truly mean? It's quite objective right? So what you are doing is misleading people. What you call "works great for me", to me is quite low performance.
So let's agree from now on to never again use mere opinion or baseless claims as a substitution for data. Agreed? Good!
Now:
You can spend thousands of dollars on SEO and PPC and still make no deals. Yup! You can also die in a car accident, and/or you can also NOT die in a car accident. Are you saying, we should not drive cars and just walk everywhere?
Yes you can spend thousands on PPC and SEO and make no deals, but you can also spend thousands on PPC and make a TON of deals. So?! Your point?! That what you said makes absolutely no sense.
Are you saying DMM is acceptable because other methods CAN fail too? That is no reason to do DMM, what the hell?! Your conclusions are drawn out of thin air.

Let's run this experiment:
Step 1:
How many of you doing DMM are actually successful (RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY? Write that number down, call it "X"
Step 2:
Now, How many of you are doing DMM and get NOTHING out of it (other than a bunch of angry people threatening you?) Write THAT number down, call it Y
Step 3:
Compare those two numbers.
Hector be very honest for a second. Compare the numbers. There will be a HUGE difference between "X" and "Y". I am willing to bet that X is a couple of orders of magnitudes larger than Y.
My question to you is this. Can you be man enough to admit this?
If yes, then there you have it. If it "worked" there would be more success than failures, but there are FAR more failures than successes, so how can you be ok with telling people or advising people to do it when you know DARN well that every 1000 people you tell to do it, 999 will fail. Bet you don't refund them when they fail, do you? I bet that if you HAD to refund the failures you would absolutely not teach people this stuff. Right? Am I right? huh? ;) ;)
Easy for all you gurus and coaches to say and make all sorts of claims without accountability, but if you were to be held accountable you wouldn't say these things. Most gurus (not you) think that the louder you bark the more people will listen, but none show data, proof, or evidence. WHY is that?!
Everyone is so fast to respond to questions, but no one, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU shows ANY evidence, proof or data backing up said claims, WHAT-SO-EVER!
Everyone just talks a strong talk. But that's all they do.
Here is what you are teaching others:
1. Perform a ton of research on how to generate leads.

2. Listen to podcasts on your way to work.

3. Question the meaning of life, listening to, and
dissecting all that information.

4. Find A list, Filter That List, Buy that List, Buy stamps, Buy mailers.

5. Handwrite 5000 letters.

6. Include a pen inside the envelope for “lumpy mail”.

7. Send mailers.

8. Experience a short-lived feeling of accomplishment.

9. Followed by an intense sense of depression and shock upon receiving a ton of angry calls from said mailers.

10. Get a ton of returned mailers.

11. Skip trace these addresses.

12. Pay for a new set of envelopes mailers and stamps.

13. Resend mailers.

14. Experience another short-lived feeling of hopefulness.

15. Followed by an intense sense of depression and shock upon receiving a ton more angry calls from said mailers.

16. Listen to more podcasts.

17. Get a “AHA!” moment when discovering different color mailers, envelopes, and stamps.

18. Research what mailer or letter works best. (yellow, blue, handwritten, scribbles).

19. Slap a unique tracking phone number on each mailer design.

20. Spend another fortune sending mailers, again.

21. Get yelled at, again.

22. Remove people from the list that demand it, again.

23. Receive a bunch of returned mailers, again.

24. Spend another fortune to skip trace and resend the new mailers… again.

25. Subscribe to your favorite real estate investing forum and ask people what you are doing wrong.

26. Try hard to make sense of their response: “If all this is not working for you, it means you didn’t do it enough, do more (of what obviously is not working), and stay consistent”.

27. Get depressed.

28. Get yourself together.

29. Do it all over again.
30. If it doesn't work, keep telling yourself that it works, so do more, more and more.
31. If it STILL doesn't work, in that case... DO MORE!! Stay consistent.
32. If it still doesn't work, remember how many people on Biggerpockets said "it works for me", so DO MORE.
"works great", Really dude?
Here is what I am teaching others.
You can't target motivated sellers. It is not possible. When you need something you take it upon yourself to find the solution to your problem. You resort to the internet. You don't look through your mail hoping someone sent you a DMM piece on how to solve your problem. You don't go through your text messages hoping a random stranger sent you a text coincidentally with the exact solution you need, you don't go to the library, you don't open a newspaper, you don't call your mom or your neighbor. You whip up your phone and go to GOOGLE!

Motivated sellers find you. YOU don't find THEM.

Which of the 2 makes more sense?

To think you have been doing all these 29+ steps for 10 years and you proudly say it out loud, as if it were a good thing? It is not!!
You and I obviously think very differently. But hey keep doing your 29 steps. That's on you. But I wouldn't tell others to do it, there are far better and easier ways.
Work smarter, not harder.
Thank you for the post. What have you found works in getting motivated sellers to talk with you?

0 Reply
Jonathan KrauserPro Member
OP
Member since 2023 · 40 posts · 16 votes
2y
Quote from @Hector Perez:

@Jonathan Krauser
After reading the letter for a second time, I would recommend changing the following
here is my two cents.
In the second paragraph where it says "I will also pay cash" be careful with that statement. If you are targeting small multifamily properties, that statement can be true, but if you are targeting larger units, the chances of paying cash are very small to none, as many people will buy it using banks and a mix of syndication, so savvy investors will ignore your letter
The PS section where says " or if they have tenants in the property." This is what I typically use for my SFR direct mail campaign to landlords. but if you are targeting multifamily more likely they will have tenants in place, so that statement is not as powerful for your audience as it is for SFR landlords, that sometimes is hard to sell a property with Tenants in place
I hope that helps a bit
Thank you for the response. I created the list from the tax records. It consists of only owners that have duplexes and their mailing addresses. These letters are going to the landlords. I have the cash resources to purchase any of those properties.
0 Reply
Ecaterina Katerina Morosan
Real Estate Agent · Miami, FL · Member since 2022 · 238 posts · 102 votes
2y
1. Cold call the target area
2. Send out letters in handwritten envelops about your intention to purchase
3. Follow up
4. Send out flyers about recently sold/purchased
5. Cold call
6. Follow up
7. Send letters to mailing address instead of property address
etc etc etc
You need to become hyperlocal and more important to reach the person at the right time. Also, don't forget to bring up any off market deals you are aware of in the area. Have a list of them. I personally think it's not just mailers but a combination of actions that works. Good luck!
0 Reply
Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
Just go to the local RE forums, there are deals everywhere. Let the wholesalers do the hard work. I have done 100s and 100s and 100s, NEVER ONCE cold calling or mailing letters. I can get as many as I want
Good luck
1 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Jonathan Krauser:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Hector Perez:

Direct mail marketing works great for me, and I have never stopped in over 10 years of doing it consistently, and I have closed many deals from SFR, notes, land and commercial properties

yes, you can do PPC or SEO, but you can spend thousands of dollars too, and no deals.

Basically you need to know what you are doing in DM or Online for it to work, otherwise, you will spend thousands of dollars without success

@Jonathan Krauser. The letter looks good. Good Luck
Hopefully this message to you Hector helps you grow. I will be blunt so hold on tight.
"DMM has worked great for me",
What exactly do you mean by " it works for me" and what do you mean by "it works great". Quantify this for me.
1% success rate? This means every 100 mailers you send you get one deal.
0.1% success rate? This means every 1000 mailers you send you make one deal.
0.01% success rate? You need to send 10,000 mailers to get one deal.
And you have been doing it for 10 years... Why even mention this as this has nothing to do with anything.
I have been doing this for just 6 and I get more leads for free than you get chasing after them paying a fortune. But alas this is not about me or SEO.
Allow me to make my point.
Consider exhibit A: some actual data/numbers
All free, all motivated, all begging me to make them a cash offer, all 100% free.
So tell me again, What does "it works great for me" truly mean? It's quite objective right? So what you are doing is misleading people. What you call "works great for me", to me is quite low performance.
So let's agree from now on to never again use mere opinion or baseless claims as a substitution for data. Agreed? Good!
Now:
You can spend thousands of dollars on SEO and PPC and still make no deals. Yup! You can also die in a car accident, and/or you can also NOT die in a car accident. Are you saying, we should not drive cars and just walk everywhere?
Yes you can spend thousands on PPC and SEO and make no deals, but you can also spend thousands on PPC and make a TON of deals. So?! Your point?! That what you said makes absolutely no sense.
Are you saying DMM is acceptable because other methods CAN fail too? That is no reason to do DMM, what the hell?! Your conclusions are drawn out of thin air.

Let's run this experiment:
Step 1:
How many of you doing DMM are actually successful (RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY? Write that number down, call it "X"
Step 2:
Now, How many of you are doing DMM and get NOTHING out of it (other than a bunch of angry people threatening you?) Write THAT number down, call it Y
Step 3:
Compare those two numbers.
Hector be very honest for a second. Compare the numbers. There will be a HUGE difference between "X" and "Y". I am willing to bet that X is a couple of orders of magnitudes larger than Y.
My question to you is this. Can you be man enough to admit this?
If yes, then there you have it. If it "worked" there would be more success than failures, but there are FAR more failures than successes, so how can you be ok with telling people or advising people to do it when you know DARN well that every 1000 people you tell to do it, 999 will fail. Bet you don't refund them when they fail, do you? I bet that if you HAD to refund the failures you would absolutely not teach people this stuff. Right? Am I right? huh? ;) ;)
Easy for all you gurus and coaches to say and make all sorts of claims without accountability, but if you were to be held accountable you wouldn't say these things. Most gurus (not you) think that the louder you bark the more people will listen, but none show data, proof, or evidence. WHY is that?!
Everyone is so fast to respond to questions, but no one, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU shows ANY evidence, proof or data backing up said claims, WHAT-SO-EVER!
Everyone just talks a strong talk. But that's all they do.
Here is what you are teaching others:
1. Perform a ton of research on how to generate leads.

2. Listen to podcasts on your way to work.

3. Question the meaning of life, listening to, and
dissecting all that information.

4. Find A list, Filter That List, Buy that List, Buy stamps, Buy mailers.

5. Handwrite 5000 letters.

6. Include a pen inside the envelope for “lumpy mail”.

7. Send mailers.

8. Experience a short-lived feeling of accomplishment.

9. Followed by an intense sense of depression and shock upon receiving a ton of angry calls from said mailers.

10. Get a ton of returned mailers.

11. Skip trace these addresses.

12. Pay for a new set of envelopes mailers and stamps.

13. Resend mailers.

14. Experience another short-lived feeling of hopefulness.

15. Followed by an intense sense of depression and shock upon receiving a ton more angry calls from said mailers.

16. Listen to more podcasts.

17. Get a “AHA!” moment when discovering different color mailers, envelopes, and stamps.

18. Research what mailer or letter works best. (yellow, blue, handwritten, scribbles).

19. Slap a unique tracking phone number on each mailer design.

20. Spend another fortune sending mailers, again.

21. Get yelled at, again.

22. Remove people from the list that demand it, again.

23. Receive a bunch of returned mailers, again.

24. Spend another fortune to skip trace and resend the new mailers… again.

25. Subscribe to your favorite real estate investing forum and ask people what you are doing wrong.

26. Try hard to make sense of their response: “If all this is not working for you, it means you didn’t do it enough, do more (of what obviously is not working), and stay consistent”.

27. Get depressed.

28. Get yourself together.

29. Do it all over again.
30. If it doesn't work, keep telling yourself that it works, so do more, more and more.
31. If it STILL doesn't work, in that case... DO MORE!! Stay consistent.
32. If it still doesn't work, remember how many people on Biggerpockets said "it works for me", so DO MORE.
"works great", Really dude?
Here is what I am teaching others.
You can't target motivated sellers. It is not possible. When you need something you take it upon yourself to find the solution to your problem. You resort to the internet. You don't look through your mail hoping someone sent you a DMM piece on how to solve your problem. You don't go through your text messages hoping a random stranger sent you a text coincidentally with the exact solution you need, you don't go to the library, you don't open a newspaper, you don't call your mom or your neighbor. You whip up your phone and go to GOOGLE!

Motivated sellers find you. YOU don't find THEM.

Which of the 2 makes more sense?

To think you have been doing all these 29+ steps for 10 years and you proudly say it out loud, as if it were a good thing? It is not!!
You and I obviously think very differently. But hey keep doing your 29 steps. That's on you. But I wouldn't tell others to do it, there are far better and easier ways.
Work smarter, not harder.
Thank you for the post. What have you found works in getting motivated sellers to talk with you?

No worries man. My pleasure.
To answer this question you first need to understand what a motivated seller is because this is the root of all the inconsistent advice flying around. This is very important so see if you can stick with me here.
A motivated seller is not someone that want to, needs to, or even has to sell their house (like foreclosure, tax liens, job loss etc. etc.).
A motivated seller is anyone willing to sell their house below market value regardless of the reason why.
So it is the willingness to sell below market value is what separates a seller from a motivated seller.
Take someone in foreclosure. Don't they have to sell their house? Yes. And if they don't sell their house aren't they going to be in trouble? Yes.
Are they willing to sell their house below market value? Nope!
Although they HAVE to sell are desperate to sell, NEED to sell, they are NOT motivated.
They rather pour concrete down the drain, destroy the cabinets then sell to you... at market value, let alone at a discount.
So, once you truly and fully understand this, think about it. Who are you targeting by sending marketing to a list? People who want to, need to, or have to sell.
If foreclosures were motivated sellers, why does it take you 3000 to 5000 mailers calls or texts to get ONE deal? The data and numbers are staring you in the face, but people choose to see what they want to see.
Now. Sadly, you can't target motivated sellers. It is not possible.
Why?
Jon, do you own your house?
Yes?
Great.

I am going to offer you 20 cents on the dollar for your house. Yes or no?
No?
Darn it.
Fine how about 50 cents on the dollar?
No?
Jeez man
FINE 100 GADAMN CENTS ON THE DOLLAR. I will give you market value for your house.
No still right?
Why?
Because if you had said yes, you would have to pack, move, find a house, moving company... WHY? WHY take on all that crap when you were not motivated in the first place right?
So, ok you are not a motivated seller.
God forbid, knock on wood, something happens to you tomorrow and you BECOME motivated.
My question is this.
Who knows that you Jon Krauser, living at 123 Main Street became motivated?
NO ONE!!
You do not magically appear on the motivated seller list in Propstream. You do not get a tag in the government registry that says "Jon right.... wait for it.. .waaaait for it.. NOW.. NOW Jon became motivated, everyone sends him a mailer call or text". It's moronic!
My point and proof, evidence-backed.
NOTHING can target motivated sellers because no one knows when someone else becomes motivated. No list no set of characteristics and predict motivation because motivation is based on emotion, NOT DATA.
If you were a lion in the dry savannah of Africa and you wanted food. Where would you go?
The watering hole right?
I don;t care who you are, your butt will be at the watering hole every single day
Where do you go when you need info, help, reviews, knowledge, entertainment, and answers? Library? No, Google. You go to the internet.
Well, guess what So does everyone else including actually MOTIVATED sellers.
The ONLY way to reliably get in touch with motivated sellers is for you to make it extremely easy for them to find you.
I call this "stalking the watering hole".
SEO is obviously the best, but PPC and Facebook ads (a service I do not provide... meaning I am not just saying this BECAUSE I offer SEO) are the next best thing each with advantages and disadvantages.
Now, you are better off investing in an ever working lead generation system so you can automate this to generate the highest quality leads for free, than investing in a list, no matter the list and every single time you send mailers you have to
1) Hope they see the mailer
2) Hope they open the mailer
3) Hope that when and IF they open the mailer they are in the mood to read it
4) Hope that when they 1. find the mailer, 2. and hopefully open the mailer, and 3. hopefully they are in the mood to read your mailer, and 4. they are coincidently in some sort of motivation state to act on the mailer, they will give YOU a call when they have received 400 other mailers from other people
You do realize that 50% of 50% is 25%. So hoping on a hope the numbers go down QUICK.
Can you make deals doing it the old way? Absolutely. No one is saying you don't.
But if you want to become a serious Real Estate Investor, you better get with the times or you will become obsolete.
In short.
You don;t find motivated sellers, they find you.
If you have to pay for a lead tr chase a lead, per definition it is a bad lead. Why Because if it was a good lead you wouldn't need to change them They would be chasing the solution to their problem, YOU!
And this is not just blowing hot air.
You all seen my data, seen the evidence seen my leads pouring in and ...
Now you have seen my checks:
All these are Wholesale assignment fees!
That is what I find so stupid in these forums. People fight me on DMM cold calling lists, WHILE they complain about DMM cold calling and lists. I tell them its wrong they defend it to the death, while they SEE me put undisputable proof that those methods are retarded!, yet they call themselves coaches and experts with absolutely no data to show While I am showing concrete proof that what I am telling them is solid, common sense logic, while THEIR OWN DATA shows I am correct.
Un
Be
LIEV
ABLE!!!
2 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Ecaterina Katerina Morosan:

1. Cold call the target area
2. Send out letters in handwritten envelops about your intention to purchase
3. Follow up
4. Send out flyers about recently sold/purchased
5. Cold call
6. Follow up
7. Send letters to mailing address instead of property address
etc etc etc
You need to become hyperlocal and more important to reach the person at the right time. Also, don't forget to bring up any off market deals you are aware of in the area. Have a list of them. I personally think it's not just mailers but a combination of actions that works. Good luck!

1. Cold call the target area

The area has nothing to do with people being motivated to sell.

2. Send out letters in handwritten envelops about your intention to purchase

Handwritten letters only TRICK people into OPENING the letter. Tricking them to open the letter doesn't magically transform them from being non-motivated to being motivated!

And even when you TRICK them to open the letter, they will be disappointed right? They will feel like you tricked them and manipulated them into opening the letter. this does the opposite of building rapport, you are pissing them off. Don't do this.

3. Follow up

Following up only pisses people off more. Think about it. If you have to follow up, it means they were not interested right? So you know they are not interested so you bug them with a service they don't want. You are not winning them over.

The danger in this is that you are not there on your own doing your thing. You have competition. If you were competing against us... a friendly respectful, professional-behaving couple that didn't monthly harass them like a desperate maniac you will lose.

4. Send out flyers about recently sold/purchased

You are enticing them to find an agent. Not what you want (if you are looking for motivated sellers). If the recently sold show market value, you are driving their hopes up. Don't want to do that.

5. Cold call

Will piss them off, and you are reaching people that do not want to sell their house especially not at a discount. So I wouldn't do this either.

6. Follow up

Piss them off, harass them. Following up means they are not interested (or you wouldn't have to follow up). Bugging them constantly is not going to make them like you. more. Yes, some do deals with you, but that is all you see. You only see when it worked For every person you made a deal with during follow-up, you pissed 600 people off. That is not the way to run a business.

7. Send letters to the mailing address instead of the property address

See above. Mailers, lists, calls can't target motivated sellers.

You said:
"You need to become hyperlocal and more important to reach the person at the right time."

This is correct, but that is a bad thing. You will NEVER know when someone is about to become motivated. There is no way of knowing

My advice to everyone is this.

Stop thinking with a scarcity desperation mindset.

If you think it is ok to harass 1000 people to death to get one contract signed, you really need to reevaluate your business ethics and principles. You are looking for clients. You are providing a service to your clients. Your clients are motivated sellers.

You can NOT convert people who do not want to sell (below market value) into people willing to sell below market value.

The mistake people make (constantly) is their efforts are based on forcing non-motivated sellers to sell, by constant harassment.

This is wrong.

Instead of mass mailing blanket mailing, and putting your energy in finding random people and forcing them to become motivated by putting a ton of effort and money into follow-up, you need to focus on targeting the RIGHT people.

People who are actually looking for your service.

Hopefully, it changes your perspective and you can improve your business.
1 Reply
Hector Perez
Flipper/Rehabber · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 75 votes
2y
Quote from @Jonathan Krauser:

Quote from @Hector Perez:

@Jonathan Krauser
After reading the letter for a second time, I would recommend changing the following
here is my two cents.
In the second paragraph where it says "I will also pay cash" be careful with that statement. If you are targeting small multifamily properties, that statement can be true, but if you are targeting larger units, the chances of paying cash are very small to none, as many people will buy it using banks and a mix of syndication, so savvy investors will ignore your letter
The PS section where says " or if they have tenants in the property." This is what I typically use for my SFR direct mail campaign to landlords. but if you are targeting multifamily more likely they will have tenants in place, so that statement is not as powerful for your audience as it is for SFR landlords, that sometimes is hard to sell a property with Tenants in place
I hope that helps a bit
Thank you for the response. I created the list from the tax records. It consists of only owners that have duplexes and their mailing addresses. These letters are going to the landlords. I have the cash resources to purchase any of those properties.

Ok, I understand now, so the letter will work great for duplexes. Good Luck
Typically multifamily is 5 units or more and Single Families are 1-4 units, so I was confused, so thanks for the clarification
0 Reply
Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Hector Perez:

Quote from @Jonathan Krauser:

Quote from @Hector Perez:

@Jonathan Krauser
After reading the letter for a second time, I would recommend changing the following
here is my two cents.
In the second paragraph where it says "I will also pay cash" be careful with that statement. If you are targeting small multifamily properties, that statement can be true, but if you are targeting larger units, the chances of paying cash are very small to none, as many people will buy it using banks and a mix of syndication, so savvy investors will ignore your letter
The PS section where says " or if they have tenants in the property." This is what I typically use for my SFR direct mail campaign to landlords. but if you are targeting multifamily more likely they will have tenants in place, so that statement is not as powerful for your audience as it is for SFR landlords, that sometimes is hard to sell a property with Tenants in place
I hope that helps a bit
Thank you for the response. I created the list from the tax records. It consists of only owners that have duplexes and their mailing addresses. These letters are going to the landlords. I have the cash resources to purchase any of those properties.

Ok, I understand now, so the letter will work great for duplexes. Good Luck
Typically multifamily is 5 units or more and Single Families are 1-4 units, so I was confused, so thanks for the clarification

0 Reply
Hector Perez
Flipper/Rehabber · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 75 votes
2y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Hector Perez:

Quote from @Jonathan Krauser:

Quote from @Hector Perez:

@Jonathan Krauser
After reading the letter for a second time, I would recommend changing the following
here is my two cents.
In the second paragraph where it says "I will also pay cash" be careful with that statement. If you are targeting small multifamily properties, that statement can be true, but if you are targeting larger units, the chances of paying cash are very small to none, as many people will buy it using banks and a mix of syndication, so savvy investors will ignore your letter
The PS section where says " or if they have tenants in the property." This is what I typically use for my SFR direct mail campaign to landlords. but if you are targeting multifamily more likely they will have tenants in place, so that statement is not as powerful for your audience as it is for SFR landlords, that sometimes is hard to sell a property with Tenants in place
I hope that helps a bit
Thank you for the response. I created the list from the tax records. It consists of only owners that have duplexes and their mailing addresses. These letters are going to the landlords. I have the cash resources to purchase any of those properties.

Ok, I understand now, so the letter will work great for duplexes. Good Luck
Typically multifamily is 5 units or more and Single Families are 1-4 units, so I was confused, so thanks for the clarification

Actually, that part is only half true because there are additional criteria that need to be considered to be multifamily vs SFR, such as separate utilities, heating systems, how they are attached to one another (Vertically vs horizontally), etc
an easy way to differentiate and communicate is to call it multifamily if it has more than 5 units. and Single family for 1-4 units or call it how it is duplex
I own several duplexes that are considered single-family homes by the city.
In the end, it is your decision on how to use it
0 Reply

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