30,000 postcards and no deals

30,000 postcards and no deals

St. Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 5 votes

A guy I'm partnered with recently finished a direct mail campaign of 30,000 postcards and didn't get a single deal. He has been in the business a long time and has closed hundreds of deals but recently direct mail hasn't been a good source of leads. Has anyone else been experiencing this?

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Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y

Sellers Are Over 65?

RE: Direct Mail, Frequency works, meaning 5000 times 6 runs is better than 30,000 once.

For low equity deals, try something like this....

--------------------------------------------------------------
I’LL BUY YOUR HOUSE – FAST!!

Here’s your quick and easy solution:
* FAST Closing
* INSTANT Debt Relief
* FREEDOM From Maintenance Hassles
* GUARNANTEED Written Offer Within 48 Hours
* HARD-TO-SELL HOME? No Problem!
* NO EQUITY? No Problem!
* NO Commissions

Call 1-888-555-1212 x12
toll-free 24hr. rec. msg.

--------------------------------------------------------------

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 105 posts · 26 votes
    13y

    Is he only looking for wholesale / equity deals? If so, I can't even imagine how many great sub2 / lease option deals he must have thrown away.

  • St. Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 5 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jason Nickel:
    Is he only looking for wholesale / equity deals? If so, I can't even imagine how many great sub2 / lease option deals he must have thrown away.

    Yeah, he finds the lease options to be too time consuming for such a low pay off. I don't necessarily agree but that's just his perspective.

  • Specialist · San Dimas, CA · Member since 2011 · 350 posts · 122 votes
    13y

    There's a lot more information not being shared here.

    Mainly - what was he targeting - sub2s, absentee owners, equity owners, etc.

    30K is a large number and Zero response rate is very uncommon, especially on that size of a campaign. I'm not sure what his experience is with direct marketing, but he probably should have split tested the farm area before dropping that many mailers.

    His postcard was probably to general or didn't have good sales copy or a call to action. Direct mail is great, but campaigns, IMO, should out preform shotgun mailers.

    Do you think you could get a copy of his mailer? I think it would be a great case study to post here on BP.

    AG

  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 189 posts · 32 votes
    13y

    ya... 0 response rate doesn't sound normal. more details about how this was done would be helpful to troubleshoot the lack of response.

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    13y

    Sounds like it was probably terrible copy, even a terrible list would have produced some results with decent copy.

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 105 posts · 26 votes
    13y

    He didnt say zero response rate, he said no DEALS. I'm sure his response rate was just fine, he just didnt hit any home runs.

  • St. Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 5 votes
    13y

    I just e-mailed him asking what filters he used on his list and what was said on the postcard. I'll update you guys when I hear back.

    To my knowledge, he gots some responses and calls off it but nothing ended up resulting in a deal. All were tire-kickers or people not motivated enough to sell at a wholesale price.

  • St. Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 5 votes
    13y

    Here was his response:

    "We sent a letter and it was by zip code to people 65 and older and who had lived in (or owned) their house for 20+ years."

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    His buying criteria? My guess is that it was more strict than merely buying for 30% off. Also, I'd expect that calls will trickle in from the campaign for many months.

  • Specialist · San Dimas, CA · Member since 2011 · 350 posts · 122 votes
    13y

    Hmm...sounds like he went for the "shotgun" approach. I'm hoping your friend has a bit more capital to continue his marketing to this group for at least another 6 times. I may take a few touches to see the ROI.

    I would still love to see the postcard or mailer though, or maybe his list was too niche. I think sorting for equity might have been another good filter to add to the other filters.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Also, I wonder about how responsive he was with incoming calls and follow up. A 3% response rate would be 900 calls, which would overwhelm most individuals, me included. Then there is all the follow up, market research, making offers, negotiating, etc. I think you'd need a team and a great process to maximize conversion.

  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2012 · 189 posts · 32 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
    Also, I wonder about how responsive he was with incoming calls and follow up. A 3% response rate would be 900 calls, which would overwhelm most individuals, me included. Then there is all the follow up, market research, making offers, negotiating, etc. I think you'd need a team and a great process to maximize conversion.

    sounds like a job for a fancy automated guru system to me! ;)

  • St. Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 5 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
    Also, I wonder about how responsive he was with incoming calls and follow up. A 3% response rate would be 900 calls, which would overwhelm most individuals, me included. Then there is all the follow up, market research, making offers, negotiating, etc. I think you'd need a team and a great process to maximize conversion.

    He has small property management team for his buy & holds (around 170 units). I believe his property manager deals with all incoming calls but I'm not certain. From hearing him talk about it, he is pretty adamant on having someone answer right when they call instead of letting it go to an automated voicemail.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Kelvin K.:
    Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
    Also, I wonder about how responsive he was with incoming calls and follow up. A 3% response rate would be 900 calls, which would overwhelm most individuals, me included. Then there is all the follow up, market research, making offers, negotiating, etc. I think you'd need a team and a great process to maximize conversion.

    sounds like a job for a fancy automated guru system to me! ;)

    That's the dream, isn't it? If you could find a virtual assistant that could do all of the above....

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Sellers Are Over 65?

    RE: Direct Mail, Frequency works, meaning 5000 times 6 runs is better than 30,000 once.

    For low equity deals, try something like this....

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    I’LL BUY YOUR HOUSE – FAST!!

    Here’s your quick and easy solution:
    * FAST Closing
    * INSTANT Debt Relief
    * FREEDOM From Maintenance Hassles
    * GUARNANTEED Written Offer Within 48 Hours
    * HARD-TO-SELL HOME? No Problem!
    * NO EQUITY? No Problem!
    * NO Commissions

    Call 1-888-555-1212 x12
    toll-free 24hr. rec. msg.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Brian Porter:
    Here was his response:

    "We sent a letter and it was by zip code to people 65 and older and who had lived in (or owned) their house for 20+ years."

    I'm new here but I don't know why this criteria would result in motivated sellers.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I agree with this. Did he say why he thinks he didn't get any deals?

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Brian Lane:
    Originally posted by Brian Porter:
    Here was his response:

    "We sent a letter and it was by zip code to people 65 and older and who had lived in (or owned) their house for 20+ years."

    I'm new here but I don't know why this criteria would result in motivated sellers.

    Not necessarily motivated, but the list should include a good percentage of high equity owners, and even free and clear owners. Plus there is down sizing, maintenance issues, estate planning, health issues, etc.

  • St. Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 5 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Jon Klaus:

    I agree with this. Did he say why he thinks he didn't get any deals?

    He didn't really say much other than he just doesn't think direct mail is as great of a lead source as most people think since most people just throw it away.

    He believes a lot in calling and talking to people that seem like they are in financial trouble. He actually hired me as a bird dog to do this since his time is mostly tied up in managing his properties.

    I've been working with him for a few months now. I'm fairly limited on the amount of mailers I send out and I spend most of my time calling people. So far it hasn't been that successful. I've gotten two deals in the past 3.5 months. One for 5k and one for 9k.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    He must have believed in it before he mailed 30K pieces. And yes, most just throw it away, but you only need a very small percentage of conversions to have good ROI. The thing is that it is working for others, including me. I do almost all yellow letters, though.

    I think it is very important to understand why you get the result you get, so you can tweak and improve.

  • Specialist · San Dimas, CA · Member since 2011 · 350 posts · 122 votes
    13y

    Jon Klaus - so you send out a series of 5-7 YL over the course of your campaign? Interesting...I would have thought mixing up the marking piece would yield better results, but it sounds like you haven't needed to, right?

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Out of the approximately 12 rounds I've mailed in the past 15 months, only one round has been a post card. It got the most tepid response. My thinking is that if may mail all looks, feels, and sounds the same, I'll be establishing my brand and hopefully differentiating from other wholesale buyers.

  • Urbana, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 425 votes
    13y

    From my research you need to send out at least 4 mailings per door. Most people are not going to call on the first contact. Besides, if they are already on a list of possibly motivated sellers, others can get the same list. If a person gets 6 postcards from one person and only 1 from one guy, who do you think that person would go with?

    Time and time again I've heard direct mail is about constantly reconnecting and be a little monkey on their shoulder. 6 months down the road someone may be motivated finally and if they got a card every month from you they may more likely call you over some guy they heard from the first month. Heck, they probably did throw that postcard away.

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Brian Porter's original post here said the gentleman mailed 30,000 postcards. Later, when he asked for clarification, it sounded like he mailed 30,000 LETTERS. All to senior citizens. That is a one-time carpet bombing of a very particular group. Most investors, as mentioned by others above, will vary their mailers, target a group with MUCH wider demographics & financial scenarios, and touch them multiple times over the course of a direct mail CAMPAIGN.

    Tell you're buddy that direct mail seems to suck because he did it wrong.

  • Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 99 posts · 29 votes
    13y

    Jon Klaus So you just use yellow letters and not any postcards. Do you mix up the message on the yellow letters throughout the campaign to each recipient? Or just use the same template each consecutive mailing?

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